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CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - 14mins overstay - burger king carpark Wellington RD, Wokingham RG40 2AT

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Hello everyone

 

Firstly, a huge thank you to all the incredible volunteers that are helping us to beat these disgraceful companies, that are causing misery to so many innocent and decent human beings ;-)

 

I thought I could do this myself but now I realise I need help!

I will put as much relevant info below that will help any volunteer that is willing and able to help me win this.

 

As the registered keeper of the vehicle in question, I too received a county court claim from Civil Enforcement Ltd (CEL) for an alleged parking violation.

 

Following advice from other threads, I have completed the following...on the MCOL website, it has been acknowledged and box ticked wishing to defend in full (defence box left blank!). Now preparing to submit keeper defence.

 

 

Details as follows:

 

CCBC ISSUE DATE: 17 Oct 2018

 

Particulars of Claim state the following (exact) words:

 

Claim for monies relating to a Parking Charge for parking in a private car park managed by the Claimant in breach of the terms + conditions (T+Cs).

Drivers are allowed to park in accordance with T+Cs of use.

ANPR cameras and/or manual patrols are used to monitor vehicles entering + exiting the site.

Debt + damages claimed the sum of 236.00

Violation date: 01/12/2017

Time in: 13:44 Time out 14:59

PCN ref: XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Car Park: XXXXXXXXX

 

Total due: 236.00

The Claimant claims the sum of 252.50 for monies relating to a parking charge per above including 16.50 interest pursuant to S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984

Rate 8.00% pa from dates above to 16/10/18

Same rate to Judgment or (sooner) payment

Daily rate to Judgment – 0.05

Total debt and interest due 252.50

 

 

Amount claimed 252.50

Court Fee 25.00

Legal representatives costs 50

Total amount 327.50

 

I have digital copies of all correspondence available (with personal info removed), if required.

 

Regarding the alleged parking violation, details as follows:

Incident Date: 01/12/2017

PCN Issue Date: 21/02/2018

Maximum 60mins free parking (Burger King Car Park)

Alleged parking violation: Overstay 14mins and 20 secs

 

The defendant does not recall who was driving the vehicle during the alleged incident, as there is more than one person authorised and insured to drive the vehicle (e.g. spouse).

 

The driver may have spent time looking for a space/queuing to exit car park, and/or may have visited the car park twice. The ANPR has only recorded the vehicle entering and exiting, it is not an indicator of the length of time parked.

 

The charge is obviously predatory and not based on any legitimate interest or commercial justification.

 

The alleged violation occurred in Dec 2017.

Upon receipt of the claim, the defendant has visited the car park to personally inspect the site and gather supporting evidence (photos available).

 

Upon entry into the car park, there is a sign that says "Maximum Parking Terms Apply - see car park signs for T & Cs".

This sign is placed at 90 degrees to the LEFT of a driver that enters the car park.

There is no information on this sign that says there is a £100 charge for breaching any terms.

 

When you enter the car park, there are signs placed high on the surrounding walls that state "60 MINS MAXIMUM STAY" and immediately underneath this sentence, in tiny font on a white background "If you breach any of these terms you will be charged £100".

Drivers can only read this sign once they have entered the car park, exited their vehicle and stood directly in front of the sign".

 

From the photographic evidence that the defendant has obtained, there is indication that a previous sign had been in place in the actual car park, as there are adhesive marks left on the brick wall where a sign has since been removed.

 

The defendant also believes the signs that are currently in place may not have been the same ones at the time of the alleged incident.

Indeed a quick Google Maps check shows that the entry sign now has an additional 'Data Protection Info' sign that was previously not there a few months ago.

 

In February 2018 when the defendant originally received the PCN (the alleged incident occurred 01 Dec 2017), the defendant assumed that they should ignore what appeared to be a speculative invoice from a private firm, and dismissed them as fraudulent claims.

 

Having re-read the correspondence upon receiving the court claim, the defendant has noted the absence to any reference of keeper liability, 'Notice to Keeper, POFA2012, but assumes that the claimant should adhere to POFA if they are claiming against the registered keeper?

 

PLEASE can someone with experience of this review my draft defence before I submit it, so I can get move on with my LIFE!

 

Also, please can you advise if I should include any other information (e.g. digital copies of photos, letters, etc).

 

Many thanks to you all!

 

Draft (keeper) defence as follows:

 

 

DEFENCE

________________________________________

[removed - dx]

 

 

 

=============

 

Note:

I have not received any response to my SAR or CPR request.

I did however receive a reply back from the DVLA.

 

==============

 

 

Is my defence too long? Too short? Missing any other important information?

 

Eternally grateful for any constructive criticism....

 

For anyone else reading this post in a similar situation, I have been given the following helpful advice from another forum user:

 

[removed - dx]

 

 

Good luck to everyone out there that is also fighting these cowards!

Edited by dx100uk
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Well I haven't looked at it all. It's far too long and verbose. However I can tell you that for somebody who says that they don't know if they were driving the car or not, you seem to know an awful lot about it.

 

If I were you I would reconsider how much you know.

 

Very interesting that you have provided some kind of defence – and of course we don't know what you are defending against because you haven't provided the claim.

 

I suggest that you post the claim form in PDF format


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Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. You mentioned that you haven't looked at it at all, but I provided full details of the claim right at the beginning.

 

I have spent hours reading forums and learning fast.

 

Have you helped any users on this forum in fighting a claim from a private parking company?

 

If I were you I would reconsider how much you know.

 

Thank you very much.

 

I will indeed consider all points before submitting however I am sticking to the truth.

Edited by dx100uk
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1st permission to remove your defence please!

its not correct and FAR to detailed

and you should never use an embarrassed defence in this day and age.

 

2nd

don't post/email stuff use MCOL

its what it is there for!

 

did you send a CPR 31:14 else your 'expert' wants shooting!

 

sorry another example of why you should ALWAYS come here 1st before doing anything!

 

get the correct and current guidance.

 

please complete this:

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465231-Received-a-Court-Claim-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***Updated-Aug-2016***(2-Viewing)-nbsp


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Its a parking claim... Right..

 

Yes, I'm fighting a county court claim from a private parking company. I hope I posted it correctly, apologies if not, it's my first post here!

 

Also, do you know how I can edit my first post please? There doesn't seem to be an 'edit post' button anywhere! Cheers

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you don't need too


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

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1st permission to remove your defence please!

 

Permission granted! Thank you

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Name of the Claimant: CEL

claimants Solicitors: CEL

 

Date of issue 17.10.2018

 

Date of issue 18.11.18

 

What is the claim for –

 

1.Claim for monies relating to a parking charge for parking in a private car park managed by the Claimant in breach of the terms + conditions (T+Cs).

 

2.Drivers are allowed to park in accordance with T+Cs of use.

 

 

3.ANPR cameras and/or manual patrols are used to monitor vehicles entering + exiting the site.

 

4.Debt + damages claimed the sum of 236.00

 

5.Violation date: 01/12/2017

Time in: 13:44 Time out 14:59

PCN ref: XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Car Park: XXXXXXXXX

 

Total due: 236.00

 

The Claimant claims the sum of 252.50 for monies relating to a parking charge per above including 16.50 interest pursuant to S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984

Rate 8.00% pa from dates above to 16/10/18

Same rate to Judgment or (sooner) payment

Daily rate to Judgment – 0.05

Total debt and interest due 252.50

 

Amount claimed 252.50

Court Fee 25.00

Legal representatives costs 50

Total amount 327.50

 

What is the value of the claim? 327

 

Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company or was the PCN assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim? PPC

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?Apologies, not sure what this means. I can check all letters I received if that helps. Do you mean, did I receive letters from debt collectors?

Edited by dx100uk
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did you send a CPR 31:14 else your 'expert' wants shooting!

 

CPR 31:14 posted to CEL but no reply

SAR emailed to CEL....no reply

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was this the CAG PPC CPR 31:14 in the stickies of this forum?


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I'll check now to see which forum I got it from, and get back to you asap!

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This is the wording I used:

 

[template removed please read the top line which said don't publish in the open forum - dx]

 

It looks like this is the exact same one you posted.

 

Thank you very much!

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name the carpark please as stated in the POC

 

this is for a 14mins OVERSTAY.

you do realise there is atleast a minimum of 10mins grace period [no maximum] you could use

 

did you not write or look on the relevant council planning website and get the approved planning permission for the site

you'll see its VERY rare for planning to be granted with a minimum of 1hrs. typically most sites are only granted permission to be built of the if the free parking was +2hrs many are 3hrs..NO PCC can over rule that. [all of this can be dealt with at the witless statement stage if it gets that far]

 

did you check they also have planning permission for their signs and the ANPR equipment?

 

lastly your defence was due LAST NIGHT at 4pm.!! [courts close sat/sun ] so if you file over a w/end its counted as Monday.

BUT in YOUR CASE..its a godsend as that defence would have been like firing 600 nails from a nail gun thru your feet !!

 

you are a LiP so certain leeway is given [Litigant In Person] wont hurt to file Monday on MCOL!! not by email!! :lol:


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

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just type stop hitting reply with quote please


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

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Car park (as per POC): Burger King Wokingham

 

Address via google search: Wellington Rd, Wokingham RG40 2AT

 

To be honest, I thought the grace period issue alone was enough to stop this madness.

 

I actually phoned the BPA and they confirmed that they recommend a min 10 mins grace period to exit the car park in their CoP (I downloaded a copy to keep for my files). When I asked the BPA to give the minimum period when ENTERING the car park, she said I would need to check with the individual PPC, as it's for them to decided, if at all.

 

I've also paid the Land Registry for details of the owners which I have a copy of, along with details of the outline of the exact area that is owned. Happy to share this in a private message to you.

 

I did not check planning permission. Can I do this now?

 

I phoned the court to confirm my deadline and they told me it was Sunday 18th November. He then said that because the deadline falls on a Sunday, I would have until Monday 4pm. Hope that helps. I want to submit this as soon as possible.

 

I am extremely grateful for your help with this. You are an absolute star.

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good coming together nicely

eric will be around Monday and it wont hurt as long as your def is filed 4pm Monday or Tuesday really wont.

 

yes if you are clever the relevant council website will have an online planning portal whereby you should be able to view the granted planning permission, and in there should be about the free parking times.

but you have the secondary thing of the min 10mins no max [there is NOT ONE!! hence the BPA coughed an fobbed you off]

 

CEL are an easy win as they make 100's of mistakes

esp with who signs their witless statements [not authorised to do so]

 

ok use you time now till Monday [unless eric pops up]

to:

drill that council website!!

 

and

 

use the search CAG box in the top red toolbar

 

CEL Claimform

 

and get reading up.

 

glad to help, good job you came here at the last minute...:madgrin:


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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Thank you again.

 

I am on the council website now and searching through the details.

 

Just to be clear on your advice:

1) Don't email my defence but instead use the MCOL website?

2) search 'CEL claimform' on this site and re-write my defence from scratch? No issues at all with this. just want to be clear.

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Get your brain in gear !0 minutes grace is minimum, it could take more than 14 minutes to exit a car park if busy if you left the space before the deadline. look for the relevant points and condense that defence.


We could do with some help from you.

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Thank you again.

 

I am on the council website now and searching through the details.

 

Just to be clear on your advice:

1) Don't email my defence but instead use the MCOL website? ALWAYS THATS WHAT MCOL IS THERE FOR

2) search 'CEL claimform' on this site and re-write my defence from scratch? No issues at all with this. just want to be clear.

 

search cag box ONLY

 

your defence will simply be the VERY BRIEF 2 or 3 line one on almost every PPC claimform thread here

 

LESS is MORE


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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Hello again, it's almost midnight but I wanted to post a draft defence outline in case anyone is still up.

 

Having read through the more recent posts in the CAG threads, I have the following (shortened) defence:

 

The defendant states the following:

 

1. It is admitted that the Defendant is the recorded keeper of vehicle registration number XXXXXX.

 

2. The main signage at the site is not an offer of a contract but an invitation to treat and the Defendant denies that there was an agreed contract to breach.

 

3. The Claimant has failed to follow the Civil Procedure rules by failing to issue a letter before action and the claim is too vague to see what the claim is actually for. The Claimant has also failed to show who is issuing this claim as they have stated that ‘Civil Enforcement Limited’ is the legal representative of the claimant but haven't stated who that is when signing the form.

 

4. The Defendant states that this is not an error but an abuse of process and therefore requests that the claim be summarily dismissed under CPR 3.4 and states that it is likely to fail anyway

 

 

Would you say that this is this enough to submit? I don't want to rely on the Claimant not pursuing this further. I plan to destroy them...with your help!

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hey no rush..

you've a few days

that planning is more important...

 

and you've not bought in the 19mins MIN stay.

 

don't sweat over it.

your doing fine


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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Cheers buddy, I'm really trying my best here. I thought I could do this by myself but I couldn't have done this without help.

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hey we all make mistakes...said the dalek climbing off the dustbin...


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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