CWD - PAP Letter re old UAE debt now claim form

[AndyOrch]

No you cant...the agreement must be regulated by the CCA1974

 

" My judge said this was being tried under UAE law and not UK law ? "

 

Really cant see how that is possible 

[SquaddyP]

There’s loads of uae cases on the uae ministry of justice website, so I suppose it’s reading them and using them as a defense ? 

 

Ive taken a week off work next week to get this sorted as much as I can, I think it will take me that long if not longer ! 

 

 

[Hornsey62]

Neither can I but it's in the T&Cs and she said it's quite normal here.

 

So we don't have the same rights because if it's not regulated here theres no help with complaints to FCA or FO ?

[AndyOrch]

The DIFC Courts

 

A defendant who makes an admission under Rules 15.14, 15.18 or 15.24 can make a request for time to pay (Rule 15.33), which must be served or filed with his admission (Rule 15.35). The defendant should complete the statement of means contained in the admission form or otherwise give details of his means in writing (Rule 15.36).

 

 

The contents of the defence

The defendant must give an address for service if he has not filed an acknowledgement of service under Part 11 (Rule 17.23). Where the defendant is an individual and the claim form does not contain an address for the defendant or contains an incorrect address, the defendant must provide his address in the defence (Rule 17.24).

In the defence, the defendant must state:

• Which of the allegations in the particulars of claim he denies.
• Which allegations he is unable to admit or deny but which he requires the claimant to prove.
• Which allegations he admits (Rule 17.26).

Where the defendant denies an allegation:

• He must state his reasons for doing so.

   

  • If he intends to put forward a different version of events from that given by the claimant, he must state his own version (Rule 17.27).

  A defendant who fails to deal with an allegation but sets out in his defence the nature of his case in relation to the issue to which the allegation is relevant is taken to require that allegation to be proved (Rule 17.28).

  Where a claim includes a money claim, unless the defendant expressly admits the allegation, the allegation relating to the amount of money needs to be proved (Rule 17.29).

   

  Subject to Rules 17.28 and 17.29, a defendant who fails to deal with an allegation is taken to admit that allegation (Rule 17.30).

  If the defendant is defending in a representative capacity, he must state what that capacity is (Rule 17.31).

  The defendant must give details of the expiry of any relevant limitation period relied on (Rule 17.32).

   

  Where a defendant contends that he is entitled to money from the claimant and relies on this as a defence to the whole or part of the claim, the contention may be included in the defence and set off against the claim, whether or not it is also a counterclaim (Rule 17.33).

   

  https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/3-621-7134?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true&comp=pluk&bhcp=1

   

  https://www.difccourts.ae/court-rules/

[Hornsey62]

Thank you Andy I will take a look at this properly.

[Hornsey62]

21 minutes ago, SquaddyP said:

There’s loads of uae cases on the uae ministry of justice website, so I suppose it’s reading them and using them as a defense ? 

 

Ive taken a week off work next week to get this sorted as much as I can, I think it will take me that long if not longer ! 

 

 

 

How do you find these defences SquaddyP? 

[SquaddyP]

it’s not easy to navigate but I just went to search part top corner 

 

but they take take quite a bit of reading 

 

You need time - as in do nothing else but research this

[Versus]

That is DIFC courts not UAE Courts. They are separate entities.

[Hornsey62]

1 minute ago, Versus said:

That is DIFC courts not UAE Courts. They are separate entities.

 

Are you talking about Squaddys post Versus ?

[Versus]

Just now, Hornsey62 said:

 

Are you talking about Squaddys post Versus ?

 

 

Yes

[Versus]

The Court of First Instance shall be comprised of a single Judge and shall have exclusive jurisdiction over:

• Civil or commercial cases and disputes involving the DIFC, any of the DIFC’s bodies or any of the DIFC’s establishments.
• Civil or commercial cases and disputes arising from or related to a contract that has been fulfilled or a transaction that has been carried out, in whole or in part, in the DIFC or an incident that has occurred in the DIFC.

[SquaddyP]

They both hear debt cases depending upon the amount I believe- but not an expert so will use reference to both until I find out different 

 

just reading loads at the minute 

 

Also extremely conscious that this is monitored 

[Versus]

4 minutes ago, SquaddyP said:

They both hear debt cases depending upon the amount I believe- but not an expert so will use reference to both until I find out different 

 

just reading loads at the minute 

 

Also extremely conscious that this is monitored 

 

 

Up to you chap... read their jurisdiction and what they can hear.

[Hornsey62]

Being monitored 

 

Yes making it much more difficult to deal with.

[AndyOrch]

The following may be useful...

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1982/27/contents

 

Permission required to serve out of jurisdiction

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part06#6.36

 

[Hornsey62]

Thank you Andy. .will take a look

[Hornsey62]

Can I just add to this as it is my thread. I know I'm only new here but I've had experience with CWD and they are not debt collectors ..well they are but also solicitors..not like the ones that you can deal with everyday from lowell and such like who can't charge exhorbanant fees so they can make loads of money out of our misery.

 

I'm not blaming anyone on cag for what's happening to me right now..you gave the advice you thought was right at the time because no one ever came back with something different but now we know what CWD are capable of please can we warn people that they can and will take you to court and if you can't afford good legal help it's going to cost you a lot.

 

I'm neither a patsy or a CWD spy..just want to warn people in advance.

 

All this arguing is what they want ..to shut the advice down..why do you think they want to charge us for them looking at cag..so they can start these arguments and then no one comes here for advice. 

[Hornsey62]

48 minutes ago, rgaine said:

Hi Versus. What is your story then ?

 

What's your story rgaine 

 

You've gone on for years what you're doing to stop CWD MPS watchdog FCA have you ever got anywhere ??

 

So I could ask you why hasn't your campaign gone anywhere? ?

[dx100uk]

And ofcourse pop a few disruptors in for good measure.... dont forget cag has been here too many years not to spot the signs.

We saw it with RLP and with the streaming films claimants..

We won those..

 

Its not over yet hornsey..not by far..

Esp with the crap agreement and t&c's that we saw ...

 

Just because i might be the only one to pointout things going on doesnt mean its only my thoughts...nuff said.

 

For years variou s people groups solicitors trolls call them what you want have threatened all manner against me pers..none have ever got close

 

Ill call it because i can ...others may not feel as safe as i am..if im right or wrong is immaterial..i will use any tool in my box to protect cag and its members needing help..and not allow ever any situation to exist whereby members are silenced or scared...

 

Sorry everyone but it had to be said....

 

Dx

 

 

[Hornsey62]

Dx I just did what was advised. .no jurisdiction but they won..so what now?

 

I understand you have valuable knowledge on dealing with debt here but I think we are out of our depth and need to look in to it more before any advice given.  I'm now in a situation where no one can advice me what to do so where do I go from here? 

 

[dx100uk]

not in the least

you fight is not over

you suffered judge lottery for want of a different word

sadly we see this in every type of claim here and sadly there is noway to protect or fight, at the time against it.

 

i'm pretty sure behind the scenes an appeal or something is being looked into by the experts.

 

[unclebulgaria67]

Have the debts met all required legal standards in the UAE, including registering them as required with UAE authorities ?  Have CWD provided proof, by supplying all documents in English ?

 

UAE might have different standards/ways they deal with such financial debts and therefore if jurisdiction has been accepted by a UK Court, the next issue is whether the UAE Bank/Creditor have met UAE standards. It then becomes difficult to argue, unless it is possible to spot issues to raise.  And this is where it might be helpful to find out what documents need to be requested from CWD.  It won't just be the credit agreement, but other documents required under UAE system to register the debt. 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

23 hours ago, Hornsey62 said:

Dx I just did what was advised. .no jurisdiction but they won..so what now?

 

I understand you have valuable knowledge on dealing with debt here but I think we are out of our depth and need to look in to it more before any advice given.  I'm now in a situation where no one can advice me what to do so where do I go from here? 

 

 

No advice to offer at the moment you said you had 21 days to prepare a defence.....have you made a start as requested last week in preparing points that can be used in your defence...what about the initial debt ....any disputes...reasons for leaving it behind etc etc.

Andy

[Hornsey62]

With respect 

 

The advice I was given was tick box out of jurisdiction.

 

I also ticked box for this application to be heard without a hearing on advice but now I'm being informed by arguments on here that this is purely a prerequisite for a hearing...I was told I didn't need to submit a witness statement or need any of a form of defence? ? 

 

I was informed  that  i wouldn't need to speak in court as it would be argued out but it wasn't.  The judge was fully prepared to accept jurisdiction on evidence given by the Barrister .

 

I was was then asked for my defence of which I had none because I was advised I didn't need any which was very embarrassing. 

 

I would  just like to add until cag have done their homework not to advise on foreign debts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

And I stand by all that advice as that is the correct procedure to contest the courts jurisdiction to hear and deal with the claim.You had to have a hearing because the claimants challenged your application.....that has never happened before on this forum... normally would not require a hearing....they simply drop the claim.

 

You do not submit evidence or a defence in an application to contest the courts jurisdiction as by doing so you are submitting to the courts jurisdiction and accepting that the court does have jurisdiction.That is why the court has now ordered you submit a defence because the question of Jurisdiction has been accepted by the court.It does not mean that you have submitted to the courts jurisdiction.

 

See CPR 11.

(9) If a defendant makes an application under this rule, he must file and serve his written evidence in support with the application notice, but he need not before the hearing of the application file –

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part11

 

I did advise you to raise points such as had the claimant requested permission to serve out of jurisdiction. The English Court should not exercise its jurisdiction if there is a more appropriate forum (known as the doctrine of "forum non conveniens") and Another gateway is where the dispute relates to a contract which is governed by English law or contains a term conferring jurisdiction on the English Courts to determine any claim in respect of the contract.

 

Did the agreement refer to Exclusive or None exclusive jurisdiction clauses limit disputes to the courts of one jurisdiction.

 

It is noted that yours refers at 11.13

 

" These terms and conditions are governed by the laws of the Emirate of Dubai and the UAE.You and we submit to the none exclusive jurisdiction of the civil courts of the UAE.Such submission shall not restrict our rights to bring in any other jurisdiction.

 

Further reading.....

 

http://disputeresolutionblog.practicallaw.com/taking-steps-without-submitting-to-the-jurisdiction-how-far-can-you-go/

https://www.ashurst.com/en/news-and-insights/legal-updates/jurisdiction-clauses/

http://www.shlegal.com/insights/when-will-the-english-courts-have-jurisdiction-over-a-dispute

https://www.latham.london/2019/01/english-court-of-appeal-clarifies-test-for-determining-jurisdictional-challenges/