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NCP ANPR PCN - i purchased ticket!! - Crawley Kingsgate

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Hello

 

I'm hoping you can help me.

 

I received a NTK from NCP using ANPR for parking longer than paid for.

 

Now the issue is that driver (not me) brought a ticket for 24hr parking costing £2.50 and i have a photo of this.

 

The car park in question is protected by ANPR and the driver brought the ticket at 17:07 before leaving the car park 17:16.

 

in my simple world there is nothing to worry about as we should win the appeal ? :)

 

As i'm the keeper and not the driver who should appeal ?

what would be in your minds would be the best approach ?

 

1 Date of the infringement - 25/10/18

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] - date on letter is 05/11/18

 

3 Date received - i think i received either the 7th or 8th

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] - Not sure i will need to check further

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? - yes photo of the car leaving with time and date.

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal] - No - Not as yet, as the driver has a ticket i was going to appeal

 

7 Who is the parking company? NCP

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Crawley Kingsgate

 

Thanks in advance for your help

Edited by dx100uk
Spacing

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Scan up the full ntk to one pdf

Read upload


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

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Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

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thanks for the quick reply. attached is the redacted NTK.

 

Its a JPEG file as the PDF was 90+MB !

NCP_NTK.jpg

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Then scan at a lower resolution?

And we need side 2


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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sorry - here's the other side.

 

For some reason i'm unable to upload pdf from my mac

NCP-NTK-Page2.jpg

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Ah a mac user

Yes we do have issues sometimes


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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lol - the error message is wrong file type .png and just stops. I have access to a windows if you need it pdf. - thanks

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Hi

 

Sorry to be a pain, but do you have all the information you need to give me some advice on next steps.

 

Thank you

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the experts will be along Monday prob

 

no rush

your saving grace is you paid for 24hrs all be it on going out after almost 24hrs and you have a pic of it

as you say should be easy to buff off.


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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It is difficult to read the NTK but appears from the photo that the car arrived sometime in the morning which is when NCP assumed the ticket should have been paid for-not when about to leave.

 

Their greed in going after is that though the payment was late by their stupid thought processes they have overlooked the fact that the car was paid.

Not a hope in hell of winning in Court but please do not waste your time appealing just yet as you will lose.

 

Small chance of going to Court but just in case, could you please get some clearly legible pics of the signage and those on the ticket machine as well as the positioning of the signage around the car park.

 

Check with the local Council to see if they have planning permission for their ANPR cameras and signs under the Town and Country [Advertisements] ] Regulations. NCP probably haven't applied which makes their signs illegal [not unlawful] and thus it is impossible to form a contract in that car park with motorists.

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basically they are saying you owe them a small fortune for overstaying by 8 minutes although the printed ticket doesnt make anything clear on the paqrking time actually paid for.

 

Now that menas that even an overstay is less than the 10 minutes grace period they are obliged to pffer by their ATA, the BPA so they shouldnt have obtained your keeper details and sent you a demand. The former is a breach of the GDPR and you cna sue them for that.

 

Now we will need to see the terms on the ticket machine and signs that mention what is a days parking or how long you get for a prescribed fee so we can pick holes in their demand. For example, if it is says 50p an hour but they dont allow you to prepay for more than a certain time they then cant say you have breached their terms becuase there isnt a method of payment

Edited by honeybee13
Paras

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Many thanks for the reply's...really appreciate it.

 

I have asked the driver to take photo's of all the signs around the car park and i will upload when i have them.

 

I like your point around council and i will do some digging on this topic.

 

I also like the point of the suing them obtaining my details.

 

As you can see the driver brought a ticket for £2.50 which is for 24hrs.

8 mins before leaving the car park, so they have a ticket.

 

I'm guessing the question is whether they should have brought a ticket withing on arrival ?

 

I understand the car park only has 2 charges; 1hr for £2:00 and 24hrs £2.50, so in my simple world as long as you brought a valid ticket before leaving the car park you should be OK :)

 

Given that i'm the keeper and not the driver, should i respond i'm the keeper and i not provide details of the driver as i'm not obliged to ?

 

Sorry for the questions, i just want to make sure i'm taking the appropriate response

Edited by dx100uk
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parking from purchase thus the ticket expires in their world at 17.7 the following day and it follows in their world that the car was in the car park from the morning till 1707 without paying.

 

You have to realise that a dead budgerigar has more brain power than NCP not to see that payment has been made for 24 hours.

 

There is little point in writing as whatever the reality is from you me and the Courts point of view, NCP want your money regardless of the actualite.

 

Don't write until you know whether the signage is legal, and if they are legal do they offer a contract to the motorist.

 

We can only find that out from the photos of the ticket machine and how they concur with the signs on the poles.

 

Once you have them totally in the wrong hit them with everything.

 

That discourages them from taking you to Court though the chance is small enough anyway.

Edited by dx100uk
garbled part quote removed

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I suspected their motive is pure greed and being sensible doesn't come into it.

 

The driver has sent me some photos. I have asked them to take more photos (ticket machine) when they are next back in the car park, which will be Thursday.

 

I have checked the Crawley panning website and i cant find any application for ANPR using keywords, ANPR, Kingsgate, National Car Parks for the Kingsgate NCP carpark. There is one for a NCP car park near Kingsgate but the address is different. Are there any other keywords i should be using

Sign 2a.jpg

sign.jpeg

Sign 3a.jpg

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One multipage pdf please

Read upload


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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Sadly the photos are no use at the moment.

We need to be able to read the whole notice and if it is in PDF form we can then easily increase the font size for ourselves to make it more legible if necessary.

 

The wording on the ticket machine is vital since that is where the contract is formed assuming it is possible to form a contract.

Often the wording on the machine is totally different from that on the signage which messes up the chance of a contract being formed.

And that is without taking into account the possible/probable lack of planning permission which would make it completely impossible

regardless of the wording on the ticket machine and signage.

 

The Gala Club does have permission to erect signs in Kingsgate but I can see nothing about NCP applying .

Edited by dx100uk
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Thanks for the detailed reply and taking the time out to check the planning site.

 

Sorry for the jpegs, I seem to be unable to upload PDF's from my MacBook. I will see if I can do it from my works windows laptop tomorrow. I should have the picture of the ticket machine on Thursday.

 

I'm assuming I have time to wait before responding ?

 

When it comes to responding to this, will I be responding as the keeper (it was not me who parked the car) ? or respond saying the driver is .... or I'm the keeper and I don't know who the driver is ?

 

thanks again lookinforinfo

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You never say or intimate you were the driver


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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chances are you wont be responding nay tiem soon, let them do the worrying and you just collect and keep the info safe.

 

Now as it is an NCP car park it is the cameras that will need the PP, sigange was propbably on the nod when the place was built hence not being able to find it on the portal. You cna phone the council Planning Dept and ask them.

 

so piccies of every sign that is different and picies of the payment machine and associated blurb. We can see that one of the signs refers to other signs so already looking good for the signage not being a contract you have to accept ( ie invitation to treat)

Edited by honeybee13
Paras

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Thank you

 

My understanding the car park changed to ANPR around late sept early oct, so very recent change. Before then it had barriers and you took a ticket and paid before leaving the car park.

 

I have asked the driver to take photo all signs in around the car park and the import ticket machine and assoiciated blurb. I should have these tomorrow morning.

 

Its frustrating we to take the time to do this, but there is no way I want to give these guys a small fortune for this.

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Here are the pic's of the signs in and around of the car park.

 

Not sure if its important or not, but the driver informed me that whilst the signs says there is only one Tariff of £2.50 for 24hrs the machine does give the option of purchasing a ticket for 1hr for £2.00

 

The driver will be leaving the car park around 5pm today so if you need different pictures please let me know.

 

Sorry for the pictures been 90 degrees out, i thought i rotated them but clearly not.

signs1.pdf

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so big signs have no mention of any terms other tha pay the £2.50.

 

I also note that you are asked to enter full lisense plate details by machine, something that doesnt exist in the UK and nothing to say that entering incorrect details will get you a £100 slap. The actual contractual terms are on the sign between the payment machines so would be deemed to be what you accept when feeding the machine.

 

Now that raises a problem for NCP as it seems as though you can just send them the £2.50 through the post if you wish as the big signs say nothing about payemt methods or any warning about your obligations when parking.

 

their NTK just witters on about the period of parking but doesnt actually say what the breach is supposed to be. Non payment? Overstay? what clause in the contract has been breached or is it money due as a contractual consideration?

 

I doubt if they will be able to tell you, just regurgitate the manta that you owe money because they say so

Edited by honeybee13
Paras

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Thank you.

 

The driver has checked around and there are no other signs.

 

Here is a picture showing the ticket machine and T&C's.

Ticket_Machines.pdf

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Hi

 

Many thanks for the advice so far, really insight full.

 

What approach would you suggest i take now to get the best outcome ?

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