Cabot claimform - old HSBC Loan Application to lift stay /summary judgment***Settled by Tomlin Order ***

[Tidot]

Name of the Claimant ? Cabot Financial (UK) Limited

 

Date of issue –. 30 October 2018

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for –

 

1.By an agreement between HSBC Bank PLC & the Defendant on or around 15/09/2014 ("the Agreement") HSBC Bank PLC agreed to loan the Defendant monies.

 

2.The Defendant did not pay the instalments as they fell due & the Agreement was terminated.

 

3.The Agreement was assigned to the Claimant.

 

.THE CLAIMANT THEREFORE CLAIMS

1. 7042.65

2. Costs

 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol)

I did receive a notice of claim.

It said that there is "no acceptable payment arrangement in place" with Cabot.

I didn't not know anything about Cabot.

I have checked my bank account and the direct debits have been going out monthly to HSBC which was agreed earlier with the bank.

 

What is the total value of the claim? £7042.65

 

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? the A/c number is a Bank Account but they say Loan? - dx edit

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? The form says 15/09/2014 but it can't be because I didn't obtain any credit after 2013.

 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? I've just checked and it is showing as taken in October 2010

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. The claim has been assigned. It is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? I don't remember receiving this information.

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes I did

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? I can't remember.

 

Why did you cease payments I didn't cease payments. I agreed reduced payments with HSBC.

 

What was the date of your last payment November 2018 - the reduced amount agreed with HSBC

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes I did communicate my financial problems and offered an amount which they accepted. Unfortunately I cannot access the debt management plan link here

 

 

 

My husband has booked a holiday for us and we leave on Monday.

We will be staying with friends for 2 months.

Pretty poor timing.

I hope I can get as much of this sorted out as possible before I leave.

 

Thanks you for any help you can offer me.

I know this might sound strange as I am in financial difficulty personally but I never thought it was fair to burden him with my debt as it was incurred way before I even knew him.

 

I obviously don't want to get a CCJ.

I am happy to keep paying the agreed amount.

Because the date of the Agreement in the Claim Form seemed wrong I have acknowledged the form and selected that I want to dispute the full amount.

I didn't think to check my credit record at the time.

It was so stressful just to get the Form.

I did this yesterday 13 November 2018.

So I believe I have at least 14 more days to respond.

 

Please can you let me know what I should do now?

Especially seeing as I won't be here after 19 November.

Thank you so very much.

[AndyOrch]

Hi and Welcome to CAG ...I have moved your thread to the appropriate forum...and updated your thread title....please continue to post here to your thread.

 

Did you not respond to their Letter of claim ?

 

Please refer back to this link with regards to acknowledging the claim and making CPR 31.14 and CCA section 77 requests.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do-**UPDATED-2018**

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

in their POC there is an account number, is this 16 digits long?

[Tidot]

Hello dx, thanks for your message.

 

Sorry for the delay.

Just got home from work.

There is an account number.

Looks like a bank account. 6 digits/8 digits.

I can't see anything that resembles that number on my credit account.

 

Hello Andy, thanks for your reply.

I'm not sure where I should find the thread now.

Which forum would it be in please?

 

And did I understand correctly that I should just keep posting right here?

I didn't see the letter of claim until Monday just gone.

I don't actually know when it got here but it couldn't have been 2 months ago.

Edited November 14, 2018 by dx100uk
merge

[dx100uk]

yep just post here now.

 

so its a bank account then.

 

par chance you don't remember HSBC talking about a thing called a managed loan at all do you?

they are infamous for these.

 

what they do is they convert the existing OD in your current account into a loan, then they add the credit card balance to it, and then when they sell it on they dump everything back into the OD of the current account, hence the +£7 these fleecers are chasing.

do you remember ever running up or being given a +£7k Over draft.

 

in the meantime

as andy point too

you need to do what the rest of that link indicates...

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.

.

register as an individual

note the long gateway number given

then log in

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [ensure you use the Current account version - leave as is just post it]

.

type your name ONLY

 

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

[Tidot]

Hi dx,

no I never had an overdraft for that much.

And at any rate I still have that bank account.

 

I reduced the overdraft to a manageable amount, but I still have it.

I had a revolving credit for £5k and a credit card for £9.5k.

But looking carefully at my credit file it seems they added the revolving credit and outstanding amount on the loan into one.

 

Thanks for your advice. And yours too Andy. I'll complete the response. Will keep you updated.

 

Sorry it takes me a while to respond.

I get very stressed and sometimes my brain just switches off and I cannot comprehend anything.

 

Andy, I'm reading the link you sent me to "You have received a Claim - What you need to do. **UPDATED 2018**" .

If the amount is part overdraft and part credit card does this still apply please:

 

-------> "If you have not already done so – send a CCA Requesticon to the claimant for a copy of your agreement (except for Overdraft/ Mobile/Telephone accounts)"

 

If it doesn't apply what do I do?

 

 

Dx, for the CCA Request - is it section 77 Fixed loans, or section 78 credit cards and catalogues?

 

CPR 31.14 Request when Claim is being made for a Current Account - The debt isn't from a current account.

 

 

Please help me with which forms I need to send.

I do believe the debt it part revolving credit (which was a bank account but not a current account) and part credit card debt.

 

Thank you so much

Edited November 15, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[dx100uk]

cca request for a loan

std CPR then.

 

why don't you go ring HSBC and talk to them.

they are nothing to do with the claim they have sold the debt on.

if you give them the account number in the POC they'll tell you what the debt is they sold.

bet its a managed loan, they just didn't dump it back in the OD as the A/C was still active.

 

dx

[AndyOrch]

Okay well its not for you to try to correct the claimant on what exactly they are claiming.....they state in their particulars an agreement and loan so you must go along with that.....its their problem when they cant actually find any documents referring/supporting to their particulars.

 

So you send the normal CPR 31.14

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387484-LEGAL-CPR-31-14-Request-Request-for-information-when-a-Claim-has-been-issued

 

And a section 77 request for this alleged agreement account number (dont state your assumed account number on the request)

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387435-CCA-Request-Consumer-Credit-Act-1974-**Updated-January-2015**

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Tidot]

Thank you Andy and Dx.

 

Andy, when you say

 

"And a section 77 request for this alleged agreement account number (dont state your assumed account number on the request)"

 

Do you mean only state the account number they put in the claim form and not the account number that I THINK it refers to? Just want to make doubly sure.

[AndyOrch]

Correct...thats the account number their claim relies upon.

[Tidot]

The CPR 31.14 has a space to state which county court the claim form was received from.

 

My claim for says "In the County Court Business Centre". The crown stamp simply says "The County Court". Please can you tell me which should I put?

 

The PoC states:

 

1.By an agreement between HSBC Bank PLC & the Defendant on or around 15/09/2014 ("the Agreement") HSBC Bank PLC agreed to loan the Defendant monies.

 

2.The Defendant did not pay the instalments as they fell due & the Agreement was terminated.

 

3.The Agreement was assigned to the Claimant.

 

.THE CLAIMANT THEREFORE CLAIMS

1. 7042.65

2. Costs

 

 

Please can you tell me if, in the CPR 31.14, I ask for these 3 documents:

 

1. The Agreement

2. The Termination Notice

3. The Notice of Assignment

 

Thank you

 

Sorry for the bitty questions. The PDF version of the CPR 31.14 in the CAG library states:

 

1: the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement [*should be attached to] or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

*(Remove if the claim is from Northampton MCOL or CCBC)

 

Does this CCBC mean County Court Business Centre? And if so what exactly should the paragraph say as it doesn't seem to make sense if I remove those words? Thank you for your help.

 

Ah Andy thanks for your reply on the account number.

 

Just wondering why I can't Reply with a Quote? It just goes round and round when I click it.

Doesn't load.

Am I supposed to highlight text first

Edited November 15, 2018 by dx100uk
merge

[AndyOrch]

No..its currently not working due to the upgrade of the forum on the 13th Nov.

 

So.......

 

.County Court Business Centre = MCOL/Northamppton/CCBC

 

.1. The Agreement 2. The Termination Notice 3. The Notice of Assignment

 

.Yes CCBC means County Court Business Centre...so you remove.

[Tidot]

Thanks so much Andy.

 

.. I've just removed "attached to". Is that right?

 

"1: the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

[AndyOrch]

Yes as per the instructions on the CPR 31.14

[Tidot]

Hello guys. would anyone be able to direct me to how to complete my defence please? I have to complete it today I think.

 

I have received a response from Cabot Financial stating that they need 12 days to respond. But nothing from the solicitors. Thank you so much.

[dx100uk]

your defence was due Friday by 4pm.

[Tidot]

Hi dx, thanks for your quick reply. I understood I have 33 days from 31 October. Which is today. Please can you help me. The MCOL link is still available for me to complete

[dx100uk]

not if it falls on a w/end as it wont be registered till Monday when the court opens.

 

however you are a litigant in person so certain leeway is given.

 

plenty of cabot/Mortimer claimform threads here giving the std holding /no paperwork defence which you should have already been researching since 15th nov.

 

just use the search CAG box of the top red toolbar

 

cabot Mortimer claimform.

 

pick one that is not for an OD mind

 

post it up here 1st for checking

[Tidot]

Thanks dx. Yes I have been researching but still very confused. I'll post what I have in a bit. Thanks so much for your help.

 

Oh I'm so confused. I just cannot make head or tail of it all. In tears now. The stress makes it impossible for me to comprehend it all.

 

Hi dx, this is what I could put together from my reading. Please help me to fix it where needed. Thank you.

 

New Paragraph 2 added as they didn't send a PAP.

 

Particulars of claim

 

1. By an agreement between HSBC Bank PLC & the Defendant on or around 15/09/2014 ("the Agreement") HSBC Bank PLC agreed to loan the Defendant monies.

 

2.The Defendant did not pay the instalments as they fell due & the Agreement was terminated.

 

3.The Agreement was assigned to the Claimant.

 

THE CLAIMANT THEREFORE CLAIMS

1. 7042.65

2. Costs

 

The Claimant claims:

The sum of £3072.00

Costs

DEFENCE

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

3. Paragraph 1 is denied. It is accepted that I have had financial dealings with HSBC in the past. However I do not recall entering into any financial agreement with HSBC on or around 15/09/2014 and have sought verification from the claimant who has not complied with my request for further information.

 

4. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am not aware of any payment terms for the stated agreement.

 

5. Paragraph 3 is denied as I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served by either the claimant or the original creditor .

 

6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant; the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of credit agreement/assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31.14, and remains in default of my section 77 request, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

 

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

 

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim

 

7. On receipt of this claim I requested by way of Royal Mail on 17/11/2018 a CPR 31.14 request from the claimants solicitors and a section 77 request to the Claimant, for copies of the documents referred to within the Claimant’s particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date the Claimant has failed to comply to my section 77 request and their solicitors, Mortimer Clarke, have refused my CPR 31.14 request.

 

8. As per Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

9. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82 A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

10. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief

Edited December 2, 2018 by dx100uk
merge/tidy

[dx100uk]

looks fine to me well done

 

just let andy check it over 1st.

 

dx

[Tidot]

Ah thank you dx. You have no idea how relieved that makes me feel. I hope Andyorch will be along soon to check it over. Hope to get it filed before midnight x

[dx100uk]

you'll be ok 

 

[Tidot]

Thanks so much for your help dx. You make it possible for little people like me to take on the big guys. You're the best

[dx100uk]

2 things now ive got server access again.

 

change your para one to : Paragraph 1 is noted

 

and 6 to ….

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement/contract; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a Default Notice;

(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

[AndyOrch]

Yes thats fine.....I was going to add " © show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a Default Notice; "