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VCS CCTV PCN Claimform - no stopping - Access Road to Pontefract Race Course, WF8 4PR***Claim Struck Out***


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thanks EB - will start updating as per your advice.

 

I will try and get the amended one uploaded tomorrow so you can disregard the WS I posted earlier? 

 

I have also written to the ICO, as you suggested, received an automated response that I should get an answer within 14 days.

 

Hi everyone,

Here's the 2nd draft 

 

I do feel it is a little disorganised and I am not sure what should go where; but I am going with the approach of research and put in as much detail as possible and then cut things out/ restructure as necessary...

I have about 50 tabs open trying to find relevant info to insert etc.

 

I still haven't organised the Exhbits/ Annex sorted but can do that once the WS is more organised.

 

Section in Bright Blue - perhaps I should delete unless intend to counter claim?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

Witness Statement Draft 2.pdf

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re: Town and country Planning Act 2007

look on the parking pranksters blog for dec 2017, there is an article that goes into this but more importantly at the bottom of the blog there is a link to a paper written by a retired lawyer on the planning necessity for parking signs. Most parking co's will claim in court they dont need it as signage is too small and they ahve "deemed consent" Well, if isgnage is too small for planning it is too small to read and anyways they DO need PP because of the nature of the signage, not the size. You copy the entire paper and use that  as well as a copy of the regulations in the 2007 Act

 

leave in para 29 as it is relevant and VCS may well think that you are intending to go after them in ther future because we recommend that you do that rather than counterclaim. It will have the effect of making it more likelty they will bottle and discontinue to try and avoid costs as it is patently obvious they know they have no cause for action and so their behaviour is totally unreasonable and thus you can apply for a costs order whether they call it off or not

 

Any single point you raIse may well be the one the judeg decides to focus on and determines thaVCS dotn ahve a claim. we cant say which will be picked up on first adn whether they would consider the others at all once it i shown that the claim is duff because there is no furhter need. Also they tend to try and avoid humiliating  the parties present even when they should know better. they may rip into a solicitor bt rarely a lay person and VCS will hope that is continues that way so they can keep on at least using the legal process to harass and coerce the punters into paying up even if they lose every defended claim

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Thanks eB - will continue to work on it & insert details as per your advice. 

On the whole, do you think I am on the right lines once everything has been tidied up and organised?

I’ll get the evidence bundle organised as well - even if I only refer to one specific point in the data protection act for example I would still have to include the whole act in my bundle? The courts and VCS also get a copy of everything also right? A lot of printing & expensive postage if so!

thanks for your help as always! 

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You refer to an entrance sign in your draft WS. Is there a copy of the sign on here anywhere - or can you post a copy up for us to see?

 

Is that where the car was parked? It doesn't look like the actual entrance to the site.

 

Is there another sign above that last one you posted? It looks like the bottom of a sign directly above it.

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I hope this is ok - i had to reduce the quality in order to post. 

 

 

pix.pdf

 

Here is the other sign, but it wasn't visible from where i was sitting and waiting for the recovery vehicle ( I was sitting on a step).  Unfortunately, this sign was situated right next to my car, but as I was parked on the left hand curb and from where i was sitting in the driver's seat i had no idea it was there until i got out of my car.

Sign 2.pdf

 

No, this is the entrance sign to the access road when it turns into a “no stopping/ parking zone”. It wasn’t actually a car park I broke down in but the access road between pc world & pets at home. I broke down a little bit further along down the road. There are other signs with a lot more text on but than this but this is the only one that was facing me as such as I entered this area (but I still didn’t see it!). My car came to a stop next to a different sign...

 

Hi Shamrocker - here is the small sign above. It's very difficult to read as the writing is minute.

Small Sign above Sign 2.pdf

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So... "No parking or waiting on access road". That reads as if it should be positioned at the entrance onto the private land (i.e. "you are entering onto private land - only do so if you agree not to stop on any access roads or you must pay £100") - then there would be  prominent signs on the site stating "Access road", on those roads which they determine to be as such. This would give you an opportunity to stop and read the sign before entering onto the private land and thereby accepting an implied offer to drive over the access roads on the site, based on the terms outlined. This isn't the case, however. You're already on the site by the time the terms are presented to you, so you would be entitled to stop your vehicle on any non-permitted area for a reasonable amount while you inspect the offer and terms being made. Would 43 seconds be seen as reasonable - I don't think so.

 

It's all a bit of a shambles in my view - but there's nothing new there. I'm just pointing this out as a different angle to potentially use in addition to what the other guys have said above.  You can also twist it the other way and use the prohibitive argument, so definitely use both to undermine their position that a contract was entered into by the time they issued the charge. It also has nowt to do with an offer of parking, which is the supposed remit of the parking management company?

 

I think your WS could do with a bit of refining, but you can always bung everything in now and then start condensing it later.

Edited by shamrocker
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thanks Shamrocker - will include your comments in my WS, thanks for your help. I have so many arguments in there as to why they are wrong it is hard to keep it organised but like you say, I can add everything in now and then streamline later.

Better to have too many arguments than not enough that's for sure.

 

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Hi all,

 

I got a response from the ICO, he also gave me his direct number if would like to discuss it further.

 

Thank you for your email of 29 April 2019.

In order to process personal information, the organisation would need to be able to justify why they are doing so and identify a lawful basis for the processing of the data in this way. As an individual, you have the right to be informed about how your data is being used, including the reason for the processing.

If you have concerns with how Vehicle Controls Services Ltd are handling personal information, you should first raise these concerns in writing with the organisation, allowing them to address your concerns. You can see further guidance on raising a concern with an organisation through our website.

The reason this step is necessary is that if it was to come back to the Information Commissioner's Office as a complaint, we need to see written evidence of the concern being raised in order for us to be able to make an assessment on the organisation's compliance. 
 

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When you spank VCS in court then you have them under GDPR, and then onto ICO.

We could do with some help from you.

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fingers crossed!  

Inserting everyone's comments/feedback into my WS, will get the annex & exhibits organised and gather any further evidence as I see fit. I have a lot of arguments, but just need to make sure i put them forward in the strongest (and most cohesive way!).

Defence due to be filed on 7th May :)

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Hi HB,

Ericsbrother kindly helped me with the 2 line Defence that I have file on 7th May. :)

 

1)The defendant does not believe the claimant has the authority of the landowner to offer contracts to the public nor to make civil claims in their own name and thus having no locus standi to make such a claim.

 

2) in any case there was no offer of a contract to consider so there cannot be a cause for action by the claimant against the defendant"

 

I will certainly post another WS draft up again soon for you all to cast an expert eye over - it's 5 pages long as it stands (i am imaging there is not word limit?!) but after a bit more research and info gathering I will be onto the editing stage.

 

:)

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you use the 2 line defence when you first get the claim and when you have a date set for a hearing you need the full WS drafted. Everything posted recently is for that full defence.

 

so as a response to the N1 claim form the 2 lines you have chosen above is fine, it covers everything.

 

You will get another opportunity to have a go at them when you get the allocation questionnaire so tell us when you get that they usually draft such a poor particulars of claim you can ask for a strike out under CPR 3.4 but that is within the courts powers so you only suggest it. You can pay for a hearing requesting the same but that costs £255 so not worth doing the N244 for that..

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Hi Ericbrother,

So far,  I have confirmed that I will defend the claim and I submitted the AOS on the MCOL website.

I thought I then had 33 Days (which takes me to the 7th May) to submit my 2 line defence, right?

BTW as of yet, I still haven't had a response to the CPR 31.14 I sent to VCS on 17th April.

 

Once i get the questionnaire (which will come from the court right? I will let you all know :)

 

Thanks for all your help on the WS, trying to organise all of my research today (and insert all of your suggestions),

gather a few more photos etc

then i will have another look over the WS,

organise the exhibits and label everything correctly.

 

I may well be doing things with a bit too much haste but I would much rather be prepared.

 

 

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you get 12 days to acknowledge and then another 14 days ( plus 2 days for delivery added to the overall time)

 

You wont get a response form VCS, that is clear on every thread but it is important to send them one as their failure to respond can damage them.

 

get the short defence sent in now,

no point dragging it out as they have had their time to respond to the CPR.

You NEVER wait for a response if it endangers your ability to submit the defence part of the initial claim.

 

so get the 2 points defence into court via your portal and it is courteous to post a copy to the claimant but you dont have to, they can look it up online if they can be bothered

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Ok, I thought i had to wait until the 7th to submit the defence - i wasn't waiting for a reponse from them as such, i was just waiting until the 7th.

Just on the MCOL website - is it right that i have to pay a £25.00 fee?

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Morning All,

I received an N180 form from the County Court Business Centre Northampton and it states I have to complete it by 20th May 2019 (and serve copies to all other parties).

But if I am correct I should wait for the questionnaire from my local court (when it has been assigned), correct? 

Thank you 

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no you do as others have with the n180

as long as its come from the court not the fleecers dogs.

 

the n157 comes later

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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so you haven't got YOUR n180 from the court then?

what you have is std practice for VCS done to intimidate and pressure a defendant..

 

you really should be reading up

then you'd not be making repeated silly schoolboy mistakes..

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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To be honest, I am not quite sure - I think I seem to read conflicting threads (and sometimes following someone who doesn’t know what they should be doing!). The letter is from the County Court Business Centre, not the claimant, I have not filled out any forms indicating to anyone where my local court is.

my plan was to call up the customer help number on the MCOL website on Tuesday and get them to verify if the document I have received is one I should be responding to. 

All a learning curve for me, so just trying my best. 

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So it's an n180 from the court?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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