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Major engine failure***Resolved***

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Evening,

I have a bit of a situation that is turning sour and I need some advice on please.

 

I bought a 2014 Transit Connect used back in June of this year for a shade over 9k.

I paid £1500 as a deposit and the rest on finance via Motonovo.

The garage serviced it and did the cambelt (as they offer on all vehicles before sending out) and I collected a few days later.

 

On the drive home, the van momentarily overheated.

Having pulled over and checking the coolant, the expansion bottle was empty.

This was filled up and the van was quite happy.

The assumption was made that an air lock was present from where the mechanic had replaced the water pump and not bled the system properly.

The next day I called the garage and they agreed to have a look a few days later.

 

A few days later and they have replaced the radiator as they claim it was blocked and also replaced the air con condenser as this didn’t work (I’ll add here the front bumper is a poor pattern part so it’s clearly been in a front end smash at some point). The van was collected and seemilngly better for a few weeks until it overheated again. Again the expansion bottle was empty. Refilled incase of an airlock and spoke to the garage who agreed with me it was probably this and we would monitor.

 

The van was then perfect for a good few months until October 4th when when travelling home on the motorway, it lost all of its coolant, temp gauge dropped to 0 and having pulled onto the hardshoulder instantly, the engine died.

A restart proved the engine had overheated to the point where it was seized.

 

Spoke to the garage the next day and they agreed that they would take the van in and repair it, the aftermarket warranty may cover part of it but if it didn’t, we agreed the garage would cover the Labor if I covered the parts. (Note I have covered 10k miles at this point and I have religiously checked all levels. They were checked the morning before the failure)

 

Over the next 4 weeks, there has been a catalogue of mistakes made but eventually, the van was supposedly ready last Thursday.

I went to collect where I was told it drove beautifully but was a little flat and needed to bed in.

 

The van would barely start but I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt so took it on a 20 minute drive where the van struggled to even get to 30, was lumpy, struggled to run, drank 1/8 tank of diesel and drank all of its coolant.

I immediately returned to the garage to tell them what had happened.

Her response was give them until Monday to inspect and if it was something simple, they would repair and hand it back. If not, we would discuss the garage buying it back.

 

I made a fair offer that all I wanted to do was settle the finance which is at £7100.

She could then repair it, stick it back on the forecourt and make some of their loses back.

She at this point made it perfectly clear that she was not happy with her mechanics ability in rebuilding engines and that she was threatening to sack him over this.

 

Friday I turn up unexpectedly to get some bits from my van.

They were arguing over the work done and the mechanic was carrying out a compression test so I decided to watch.

It was making 10psi so well below what it should be.

 

Saturday I receive a text saying they are sourcing a new block and pistons and to give them a week (we are now in week 5).

I mentioned that I want to discuss the option of it being bought back to be told this isn’t happening

 

I feel now that the relationship here is breaking down.

The garage have been good and lent me an old van but it is not suitable for my work and is costing me business.

I feel that my offer is more than fair and a suitable solution for both parties but I feel that when I speak to them tomorrow, it will start turning sour rapidly.

 

I’m not confident in her mechanics abilities and even if he does rebuild it again, how long will it last?

I’ll add that at this point I have handed over £430 for the parts on the first rebuild.

Sorry for the very long explanation

 

what I want to know is where I stand and what my options are going forwards?

I do not want the van anymore as i, just like the garage have no faith in the mechanics ability for such a big job.

Edited by dx100uk
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Under the consumer rights act, if a defect occurs within the first six months of the date of the contract – when you took delivery of the van – then you are obliged to give them one opportunity to repair it after which you can have a refund or replacement at your option.

 

Write to them immediately and assert your rights under the consumer rights act. Tell them that it has had several repairs and the situation has not been sorted out. Tell them that you now want a complete refund of all your money and any additional losses that you have suffered.

You can give them a chance to respond but frankly if you send them a letter before claim that gives them a clear 14 days to come back to you and I think that that is more than enough. At the end of 14 days issue the court papers.

 

If you are prepared to take court action then simply send them a letter saying that you want your refund because of the consumer rights act. However, unless they are a very decent garage they will cause you problems and insist on having another chance to repair. You don't need to give them any further chances and it sounds to me that if they are employing poor mechanics then this shouldn't be your responsibility and you should get out of it all.

 

It's up to you. However, send them the letter that you want your refund so that least you have reserved your position under the consumer rights act.

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Thanks, I’ll be sure to do that depending on how our conversation goes tomorrow.

 

I can’t remember the exact date I collected the van (will dig the paperwork out) but I believe it to be around the 10th of June meaning we are literally just outside of the 6 months. Would you say this still applies bearing in mind they have had the van since October 4th for repair and it’s still not fixed to a suitable standard?

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Thanks, I’ll be sure to do that depending on how our conversation goes tomorrow.

 

I can’t remember the exact date I collected the van (will dig the paperwork out) but I believe it to be around the 10th of June meaning we are literally just outside of the 6 months. Would you say this still applies bearing in mind they have had the van since October 4th for repair and it’s still not fixed to a suitable standard?

 

You should have until the 6th december then

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Sorry, perhaps i need to learn how to count again!

 

Ive dug the paperwork out and it was handed over on the 14th of June so i've got just over a month.

I will speak to the garage tomorrow and see if this can be resolved within the next 24 hours amicably.

If not, i'm glad i've got this route to go down.

 

At the moment the van has a lot of my kit in it so i want to make sure that before going down the route of sending a letter before claim, i can get my kit back.

 

I know it would be illegal for them to hold this in any way but i don't want there to be any chance of my tools being held whilst it is resolved.

Edited by dx100uk
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you reported the 1st fault within 14days..[on the drive home] these are obv a whole chain of errors linked to then..

you could quite easily demand every penny back and walk away totally from this.

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you reported the 1st fault within 14days..[on the drive home] these are obv a whole chain of errors linked to then..

you could quite easily demand every penny back and walk away totally from this.

 

Ive tried to be as reasonable as possible. I must admit, i wasn't aware until this thread that i was still in a strong position but i think i have been more than fair with making an offer of settling the finance. If they do not want to do that, i will send a letter before claim and seek the full amount plus damages. Just a quick question on that, if it did go to court, would i get the full amount back taking into account i have put 10,000 miles on the clock?

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you reported the 1st fault within 14days..[on the drive home] these are obv a whole chain of errors linked to then..

you could quite easily demand every penny back and walk away totally from this.

 

I don’t agree with that. The first “fault”’was very minor and assessed as air locks. The van was “fine for a few months” once the garage had replaced the rad and possibly any air locks were flushed out.

 

OP I have no doubt you are entitled to a refund. I think the garage are entitled to make a reduction for usage. There’s nothing in the CRA that’ states what the garage can deduct so it’s all up for negotiation. 10,000 miles is a fair old lump of miles though.

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IMHO yes

I certainly would not be settling anything..

 

you want your money BACK in full end of.

the item was not fit for purpose.

 

that's between the dealer and the financier to argue about

not for you to be nice about!!

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I don’t agree with that. The first “fault”’was very minor and assessed as air locks. The van was “fine for a few months” once the garage had replaced the rad and possibly any air locks were flushed out.

 

OP I have no doubt you are entitled to a refund. I think the garage are entitled to make a reduction for usage. There’s nothing in the CRA that’ states what the garage can deduct so it’s all up for negotiation. 10,000 miles is a fair old lump of miles though.

 

To clarify, initially it was assessed as airlocks as a roadside assessment but this was not the actual problem. The problem was a blocked radiator (only have their word on that) but the complete engine failure is a result of overheating from the fact the vehicle was losing coolant via the faulty radiator to start with

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Yes I understand that, but initially the car was diagnosed with airlocks, The garage changed the radiator off their own back (possibly found a problem with it, possibly did it as an early warning) and once another possible airlock was released the van was fine for a few months and some 10,000 miles.

 

I can’t see how you could successfully argue that the terminal fault was undoubtably related to the change of radiator.

I have no doubt you’re in refund territory here but I think most judges would look at the overall picture and allow the garage to make a reduction.

Edited by dx100uk
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don't think it will be the down to the seller to decide that if anything of the refund will be deducted for 10k 'use', in terms of what the buyer gets back.

that will be an argument between the finance co and the garage [the seller].

 

the buyer, in all aspects is not the owner of the vehicle, the finance company are , and is only a hirer, assuming ofcourse this WAS not a pers loan and it was an HP agreement and the vehicle in question is named on the agreement.?

 

the buyer should not suffer at all and would have additional consequential loses as explained in post 2 also

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Well ultimately, if no one agrees what, if anything the deduction is, then you’re right it won’t be the seller it will be the judge!

 

But yes, you’re right, the OP’s battle needs to be with the finance company.

Edited by Chuffnut

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You're correct, it was purchased on HP via Motonovo.

 

Im calling them this morning to discuss the situation and see if they want to step in but from what i've read they don't seem overly enthusiastic about getting involved in these sorts of things.

 

The vehicle is named on the agreement and its in our businesses name.

Edited by dx100uk
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They’re not keen on getting involved because they will have to have a right old fight with the garage.

 

The CRA doesn’t apply between finance company and dealer so if the dealer doesn’t want any future business dealings with Motonovo they can tell them to jog on.

 

The van will then be Motonovos problem.

Edited by dx100uk
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So slight update, spoke to the garage yesterday who are still refusing to refund and are adamant they are going to repair it. They have made a massive U turn on their attitude to this and are now saying the reason why they have taken so long is because they went off of mine and the recovery drivers diagnosis and didn't inspect it themselves before carrying on with the repair works which is utterly ludicrous.

 

I have spoken to the finance company who have said if i put in a complaint, they will send someone to inspect the vehicle. If this happens and the inspector decides to reject the vehicle then they will automatically cancel our agreement with them and the finance company will directly seek a refund from the garage. Whilst this puts my mind at rest, it concerns me that by the time it is inspected, it will be rebuilt and obviously can not be inspected for damage as required. If they do not reject the vehicle, am i still in a position where i could go down the small claims route for a refund and then pay off the finance myself?

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The finance company own the vehicle therefore the contract is between the finance company and yourself and they are liable just as much as the garage however it is for the FH to fight it out with the garage to get the vehicle repaired. See here for CRA 2015 clause 20. As you took out a hire purchase agreement with the finance house, they are the retailer of the caravan. Therefore any rights you have under consumer law are to be exercised against the finance house and not the seller.

 

 

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 the FH have an obligation to ensure the goods supplied to you under a contract are of satisfactory quality. This means they should be fit for their purpose, free from minor defects, safe and durable. For the problems you have described in your post it would appear this is not the case, as a result the FH are in breach of the contract between you.

 

Once you pass the first 30 days after taking delivery of the vehicle you must give the FH an opportunity to repair or replace the vehicle (section 19) . This must be done within a reasonable time frame, without causing you significant inconvenience and at their cost. If the Finance House fails to repair the caravan so that it is still not of satisfactory quality they remain in breach of the contract between you and you would then either be able to seek a reduction in the price you paid for the vehicle or you would be entitled to exercise a final right of rejection (section 24).

 

If you exercise a final right of rejection you would be entitled to a refund of any money paid, this would include the trade in value of your previous vehicle. The FH would be entitled to make a reduction to reflect the use you have had of the vehicle in the time you have had it. There is not set calculation specifying how such a reduction is calculated, it is a matter of negotiation.

 

 

BTW if in the first 30 days you have an issue that is not resolved there is a waiting period so even 11 months later you can still reject if the original fault is still present.

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So slight update, spoke to the garage yesterday who are still refusing to refund and are adamant they are going to repair it. They have made a massive U turn on their attitude to this and are now saying the reason why they have taken so long is because they went off of mine and the recovery drivers diagnosis and didn't inspect it themselves before carrying on with the repair works which is utterly ludicrous.

 

I have spoken to the finance company who have said if i put in a complaint, they will send someone to inspect the vehicle. If this happens and the inspector decides to reject the vehicle then they will automatically cancel our agreement with them and the finance company will directly seek a refund from the garage. Whilst this puts my mind at rest, it concerns me that by the time it is inspected, it will be rebuilt and obviously can not be inspected for damage as required. If they do not reject the vehicle, am i still in a position where i could go down the small claims route for a refund and then pay off the finance myself?

 

This is muddied a little because you have been dealing with the garage, not the finance company.

Technically the first fault was fixed, there was a few months where the van was fine and now you have a "new problem" which is new unless you can prove it is directly related to the first issue.

 

So because this latest problem is "new" or at least it "could" be new, the garage technically have the right to a repair.

I know you just want to get rid of this van and garage, pay your finance off and move on but this is messy and not black and white.

 

I think you do need to put in a complaint with the finance company and just deal with them from now on.

it must be doing your head in having to deal with the garage.

Edited by dx100uk
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I have logged a complaint with the finance company who have said it will be 2 weeks before a handler even looks at it. Great!

 

the garage contacted me yesterday and said they have repaired it and are test driving it over the weekend. If that’s ok, it’s ready to collect Monday.

 

My issue here is I don’t want to be seen to accept the repair.

The fact she doesn’t really have confidence in her mechanics abilities doesn’t fill me with much confidence and I am still aiming to reject the vehicle if the finance company view it and decide it is not fit for purpose

Edited by dx100uk
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I have logged a complaint with the finance company who have said it will be 2 weeks before a handler even looks at it. Great!

 

the garage contacted me yesterday and said they have repaired it and are test driving it over the weekend. If that’s ok, it’s ready to collect Monday.

 

My issue here is I don’t want to be seen to accept the repair.

The fact she doesn’t really have confidence in her mechanics abilities doesn’t fill me with much confidence and I am still aiming to reject the vehicle if the finance company view it and decide it is not fit for purpose

 

There is nothing stopping you paying for and getting an expert evaluation of the vehicle using either RAC or AA. It will cost if using either of these organisations however if the repair has not been done to a professional standard, you will have excellent grounds for rejecting the vehicle as it is highly unlikely they will try and fight the findings of either of these organisations. I did similar last year and the dealer caved in before the inspection.

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So, had a call yesterday from the garage. Van is ready to collect and they have test driven it 100 miles to be sure it’s ok. I’ve collected it at 1730 and set off on the 40 mile journey home. On all of the country lanes where you couldn’t get above 30mph, it’s driven fine if not a little a little sluggish. After 30 though is a different story. It struggles to accelerate, won’t hold speed at motorway speeds and is averaging about 20mpg. This morning it would barely start and wouldn’t climb the hill outside my house.

 

I’m going back to them today to make it perfectly clear of my position and my rights in the hope they will refund me now but realistically I don’t think that will happen so looks like court action may be required. The finance company are being more than useless

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So, had a call yesterday from the garage. Van is ready to collect and they have test driven it 100 miles to be sure it’s ok. I’ve collected it at 1730 and set off on the 40 mile journey home. On all of the country lanes where you couldn’t get above 30mph, it’s driven fine if not a little a little sluggish. After 30 though is a different story. It struggles to accelerate, won’t hold speed at motorway speeds and is averaging about 20mpg. This morning it would barely start and wouldn’t climb the hill outside my house.

 

I’m going back to them today to make it perfectly clear of my position and my rights in the hope they will refund me now but realistically I don’t think that will happen so looks like court action may be required. The finance company are being more than useless

 

What have the finance company said about this new development?

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What have the finance company said about this new development?

 

Phoning them when they open in a minute but to honest, they don’t really care. They have said it will be 2 weeks before a case handler is even assigned and even then, the outcome could just be they give me a “gesture of good Will” payment of the monthly payment for the month (well, 6 weeks!) I haven’t had the van for.

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Phoning them when they open in a minute but to honest, they don’t really care. They have said it will be 2 weeks before a case handler is even assigned and even then, the outcome could just be they give me a “gesture of good Will” payment of the monthly payment for the month (well, 6 weeks!) I haven’t had the van for.

 

If the finance company are being negative phone the financial ombudsman for advice as that will motivate the finance company Your contract is now with the finance company as you are buying the vehicle from them. I am sure that every time a complaint is made and an investigation starts, the finance company has to make a payment of £800 to the FOS.

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