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Caszar

CWD raised an SD - UAE bank in my case is First Gulf Bank

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I recently saw a similar question asked on another help site about UAE debt being enforceable in the UK

 

I have seen numerous posts from people on various debt help forums about people being taken to court in the UK by Coyle White Devine on behalf of UAE banks for UAE debts.

 

The post and answer can be accessed by searching on the website as I can't post the url here.

 

The bottom line is that these debts now seem to be enforceable in the UK because of some sort of understanding signed between the UK courts and courts in the UAE.

 

It seems that most people who are being chased are being advised by small solicitors to negotiate a settlement with CWD as no one seems certain of being able to fight and win any of these cases.

 

I wondered whether it would be worth contacting the press such as the Daily Mail to see if they are interested in running a story about people being pursued, some of which genuinely had to flee the UAE with outstanding debts due to redundancies in the financial crisis rather than risk being imprisoned in the UAE becuase of the draconian laws about non payment of debts there

 

The DM often run stories about negative things happening in the UAE so may be interested in people's struggles.

If it was raised in the national press it might heap some shame on the likes of CWD who are chasing these people and encourage someone in the legal industry to pick up the baton and help people fight these cases.

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Hi

 

It's great to hear that lawyers at some of the magic circle firms are saying that the UAE debts are not legally enforceable in the UK

 

but that doesn't change the fact that people are being pursued in the UK for their UAE debts by Coyle White Devine and the courts are finding in CWD's favour.

 

I have had correspondence with people through the website and they have had statutory demands issued against property in the UK over these debts and the judges are saying that a debt is a debt and is enforceable here.

 

Unfortunately the small firm lawyers that people are having to consult with because these cases are going to court are not confident of winning and due to the potential costs are advising people to negotiate a settlement or payment plan with CWD and the UAE creditors.

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Hi all, I too am keen to find out if anyone has any updates on their situation with CWD as it seems to have gone quiet on this and other forums.

 

Does anyone know if it would be possible to get a group together of those people being targeted by CWD and appoint a solictor to represent all of them.

 

Like a class action I suppose?

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Hi All

 

I have been speaking with a solicitor about CWD and these cases so hopefully this information will help some people on here.

He advises that what they are doing is wrong and that legally they have no case to pursue these debts through UK law.

It's only the bully boy tactics and the fact that people have not been able to defend themselves with a solicitor that they have been getting these judgments.

 

Ask CWD to provide details of the proof of assignment in any agreement that provides the legal basis on which they can seek judgment in the UK on UAE debt. They will tell you that there has been no assignment of liability which means they can't issue proceedings in the UK because the debt can't be assigned.

 

He says the debts are not enforceable.

People keep referring to the memorandum signed between the UAE & UK in 2013 but this is not something that is binding in UK or Common law.

A reciprocal agreement is not something written in to UK law.

 

Ask them what Act or Statute that is written in case law states that UAE debt is en forcible in the UK.

Ask them to provide the case/quote

including full citation and paragraph number

 

Tell them that you will attend any County Court hearing in Northampton and seek to have any judgement that they apply for against you to be set aside.

Defend yourself and file a defence saying that it is outside the jurisdiction of the Court.

Any agreement must say it is binding in the UK.

Judgments are not enforceable from the UAE in the UK.

It needs to be governed by UK law.

 

CWD will tell you that the UAE credit agreement states that the terms and conditions are governed by the laws of the UAE.

You and we submit to the non exclusive jurisdiction of the civil courts of the UAE.

Such proceedings shall not restrict our rights to bring proceedings against you in any other jurisdiction.

 

They can't have it both ways, it's either UAE or not.

The UK courts do not have jurisdiction for UAE agreements.

 

You need to say that the Court has no jurisdiction to hear the case.

The terms state it is dealt with in accordance with UAE law.

A UK Court does not have jurisdiction to hear UAE law cases.

Edited by citizenB
removed email and request for caggers to make contact.

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Caszar, I have edited an email and request for CAG members to make contact, out of your post above.

 

It is CAG's policy to discuss everything on the open forum.


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Defend yourself and file a defence saying that it is outside the jurisdiction of the Court.
Just for your information, people need to be very careful with this. There is a technical trap here. Generally, filing a Defence is deemed to be an acceptance that the English courts have jurisdiction over the dispute. Contesting jurisdiction must be done through the acknowledgement of service - the procedure for contesting jurisdiction is set out in Part 11 of the CPR (http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part11).

 

 

The UK courts do sometimes hear cases involving issues of foreign law.

 

 

If an issue of foreign law arises,

it is resolved by using expert evidence

(in the same way that you might get an accounting expert to help resolve an accounting issue).

 

 

It does happen and is not impossible,

although the difficulty of it is a good reason for saying that the English court should not exercise jurisdiction in a foreign law case - known in the profession as a 'forum non conveniens' argument.


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absolutely spot on the mark steampowered.

And,any expert evidence that the creditor wants to use in a Uk court,

which they have to pay for,

you have to agree to the expert being in court too,from my understanding.

 

 

And lets face it,

although an expert has to swear an oath,

would you trust them not to be swayed in favour of a large fee paying bank relating to that banks countrys laws?I wouldnt!!!!

 

A reminder also,

i have stated this before, but, to assist solicitors in peoples defence, there is the foreign limitations act, and others, and, as the bank is a foreign company, if a court case arises, ask your solicitor to apply for an application for security costs, so by, the bank would have to put money upfront to cover any legal fees should they lose their case, would they want to do do that, i doubt it very much!

 

One more thing i would argue for ,and that is a genuine approved certified copy of the cca agreement ,loan etc ,translated from arabic to english and checked via a judge and stamped from a UAE court, and original terms and conditions, as, we all know, banks change their terms and conditions a lot these days, whos to say now the UAE banks are cottoning on they might get money back somehow theyve updated their terms and conditions to cover a non exclusive jurisdiction, lets face it, UAE banks are a million years behind everybody else!!!

 

Another issue id challenge is why have the UAE banks left it so long to start chasing people for debts, to gain as much money as possible????

 

Tracing people in the UK and elsewhere has been around for years, they have no valid arguments as to why theyve left it for years..

 

Dont ever give up the fight people, always get a solicitor if you can ,dont ignore letters, try and find a solicitor who understands jurisdiction and the processes if possible.

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Caszar

 

I honestly think you should start a new thread so we can give you best advice for your own situation,

rather than you clinging to the hope that dalesford's will be the same. Follow steampowered's instructions in the post above yours. We really do need to know *your* history in order to help.

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The UAE bank in my case is First Gulf Bank

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Which county court dealt with that case ?

Just interested whether they apply to a London central court or nearest to where debtor is resident.


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Which court ?

And did you defend this action ?


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Seems very unfair that UK courts are getting involved, when i expect it would not be easy for a UK based creditor to take a Dubai based debtor to court in Dubai.

 

It won't be easy to get any politicians involved, as they will say it is up to the courts to decide on these matters using existing UK law and rules that exist.

 

The advice must be for anyone pursued for debts, that they must make requests for all documentation regarding the debts and raise any disputes, when they are first contacted. If the Solicitors acting for the Foreign Bank provide evidence of the debt, the finance agreement includes terms which allow enforcement in a UK court and there are no dispute issues, then it might be sensible to negotiate repayment based on affordability.


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they cant issue an SD they aren't the debt owners


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thread closed to stop newbie bumping


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style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 317 days.

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