My Son Chris vs Lloyds - WON!!!!!

[Pete Finlay]

Hi everyone.

Brief synopsis: My 25 year old son Chris had been hammered for overdraft charges over the last 4 years. Total charges £830, plus calculated interest of £196.71. Lloyds wouldn't increase his agreed overdraft amount (currently £210) as a result of their charges keeping him permanently overdrawn.

 

We followed all the excellent advice and guidance on this site, sent Lloyds letters containing the full list of contested charges etc.

 

17th July 2006 - Small Claims Court action filed

20th July 2006 - Claim deemed to have been served

24th July 2006 - Defendent filed an Acknowledgment of Service

17th August 2006 - Defendant's solicitors filed a defence (Sechiari Clark & Mitchell)

 

Rang the court today and they will be sending out the AQ to both parties next week.

 

 

In order to calm my son's nervousness about the liklihood of actually going to Court, ( ) can somebody let us know what normally happens at this stage when people have brought an action against Lloyds? What is the probability that they would settle before any court appearance?

 

Any and all advice, replies & comments gratefully received!

 

regards to all.

[walgrave]

Hi Pete,

 

This could be a repeat of my battle with LLoyds TSB on behalf of my son. We went through all the stages and after the Allocation Questionnaire stage he had a letter from Sechiari asking for a copy of the AQ. We replied saying that we hadn't taken a copy (mistake there - keep a copy of everything). Soon after he got a letter offering full settlement with conditions and we are now at the satge of disputing the conditions (see thread Helping My Son).

 

You have to be prepared to go to court as they might well do but they haven't done so with anyone else so far.

 

Tell Chris to keep calm as you will more than likely win in the end. It will probably take a couple of months but don't give up. Keep reading other people's threads to see what happens and if in doubt about anything just ask - there's loads of moral support here.

 

Good luck to you and your son from me and mine!

[Pete Finlay]

Hi everyone;

 

Just received the Defence from SCM on behalf of LLoyds. Appears to be the bog standard one:

 

Claim No. 6 HS 01505

IN THE HASTINGS COUNTY COURT

 

BETWEEN:

 

Mr Christopher James Finlay

Claimant

 

and

 

LLOYDS TSB BANK PLC

Defendant

 

---------

DEFENCE

---------

 

1. The Defendant Lloyds TSB Bank plc (the Bank) is a bank is a bank (note: 1 point off for repetition - you would think that solicitors would know better!) whose registered office is 25 Gresham Street, London, EC2V 7HN. It is admitted that the Claimant has been a customer of the Bank at all material times.

 

2. By opening an account with the Bank, the customer enters into a commercial arrangement with the Bank for the provision of banking services. The Bank is entitled, as part of the arrangement, to charge for those services. At account opening a customer is provided with details of the Bank's charges, currently in a leaflet a guide to our banking charges. By using the account, the customer acknowledges that the charges are incorporated into the contract. For personal customers, a number of services are provided for free, notwithstanding that they are an expense to the Bank. Such services presently include, but are not limited to, providing;

 

cheques

bank statements

the facility to make payments by direct debit and standing order

debit cards

ATMs (cash machines).

 

3. By maintaining the account in credit, or within any limit agreed with the Bank, the customer may avoid most if not all charges. If the customer fails to ensure that there are sufficient cleared funds in the account to cover payments, whether by cheque, debit card, standing order or direct debit, the customer makes a request for a payment to be made from the Bank's own funds. If the Bank makes payment, or returns the payment, it provides a service as specified in the leaflet and mkaes a charge in accordance with the terms of the contract. On page 1 of the leaflet, the Bank explains that "there are normally no charges for everyday banking at Lloyds TSB when your account is in credit.

 

When you use and agreed overdraft, there is no monthly fee and we only charge interest on the amount you are overdrawn each day. Where you go overdrawn without an agreement or where you use special services, such as copy statements, we will make a charge. This guide explains how these charges work, and when they will apply.

 

If you want to use a service that we haven't listed, we'll tell you the cost that service before you give us the go-ahead".

 

4. There is no breach of contract, the charge cannot therefore be a penalty, consequently there is no requirement that the charge be a pre-estimate of the Bank's loss.

 

5. The customer is given advance warning of charges being imposed; statements show the charges, if any, the customer has incurred during the course of a month, and which will appear as debits on the following month's statement. Customers are warned by letter when they go overdrawn or over their agreed limit without arrangement with the Bank. If the customer fails to remedy the position, and payments such as standing orders and direct debits are refused then again the customer is warned by letter.

 

6. The charges are fair and reasonable, and it is denied that they are unlawful.

 

7. The customer is notified of the charges in plain intelligible language at the conclusion of the contract, and on each monthly statement. The charges are terms which relate to the price payable by the customer for a service provided by the Bank, and pursuant to Regulation 6 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, are not subject to the assessment of fairness.

 

8. In the premises:

 

8.1 the charges are for banking services, and are not damages nor a penalty;

 

8.2 the Bank is entitled by contract to impose the charges, which are fair and reasonable;

 

8.3 it is denied that the charges are unlawful or contravene any statute or regulation.

 

9. The Claimant's claim is denied in its entirety. It is further denied that the Claimant is entiteld to the sum claimed or to any sum from the Bank .

 

Statement of Truth

 

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I am duly authorised by the Defendant to sign this statement.

 

Signed Alan Ingledew

Full name: Alan Ingledew, Recoveries Team Leader for the Defendant, Lloyds TSB Bank plc.

 

Served 16th day of August 2006 by Sechiari Clark & Mitchell of Department SO, PO Box 499, Upper Ground Floor, 1-5 Queens Road Quadrant, Brighton, East Sussex BN1 3XJ:

Telephone 01273 205381: Fax 01273 745356: Reference XX/XXX/XXXXXX/XXXX

 

Solicitors for the Defendant

=========================

 

I will be filling in the AQ as per the magnificent guidelines on this web site.

 

The question is, should I now contact the Solicitors telling them how disappointed I am that their Clients have not entered into any meaningful discussions regarding these charges, and that we have always been prepared to reach an agreement before taking this action?

 

regards to all

 

===========================

 

17th July 2006 - Small Claims Court action filed

20th July 2006 - Claim deemed to have been served

24th July 2006 - Defendent filed an Acknowledgment of Service

17th August 2006 - Defendant's solicitors filed a defence (Sechiari Clark & Mitchell).

 

24th August 2006 - Defence & AQ received.

[Pete Finlay]

Hi there;

 

we received the AQ and Lloyd's pathetic defence this morning. The AQ was filled in, but I am wondering if now is a good time to send SC&M a copy of my AQ "out of courtesy", and state that we are fully prepared to go to Court unless our claim is met in full.

 

In other words, having received the AW and Lloyds defence, should I now initiate contact with their solicitors?

 

All replies gratefully received!

 

17th July 2006 - Small Claims Court action filed

20th July 2006 - Claim deemed to have been served

24th July 2006 - Defendent filed an Acknowledgment of Service

17th August 2006 - Defendant's solicitors filed a defence (Sechiari Clark & Mitchell).

 

24th August 2006 - Defence & AQ received.

[Isiris]

No point whatsoever in phoning SCM or whatever

 

Mr Thomson who is dealing with these claims is, and I quote, "Very Busy" and doesnt have a secretary. Also, everytime I seem to ring, he isnt in in the afternoons.

 

They asked for an extra month to sort this out but wont enter into communications

[Pete Finlay]

Hi Isiris, and thanks for the reply.

 

No point whatsoever in phoning SCM or whatever

 

Mr Thomson who is dealing with these claims is, and I quote, "Very Busy" and doesnt have a secretary. Also, everytime I seem to ring, he isnt in in the afternoons.

 

They asked for an extra month to sort this out but wont enter into communications

 

I will wait and see what happens. Some people on the site have sent letters to SC&M when their AQ and Lloyd's defence have been received and enclosing a copy of the AQ for the solicitor's reference and stating that they see no need for a 1 month extension. I think what you are doing is opening up a dialogue with the solicitor's to see if they come back with an offer.

 

regards to all

[brecken]

I know its not recommended to phone, scm, but it worked for me, I simply asked why they wanted a further month, when they had already entered a defence and told me by letter they were not prepared to pay up.

its up to you at the end of the day, but worth a try.

Good luck.

[Isiris]

They have offered to settle but with terms that say I cant claim again if charges and confidentiality.

 

Sent them a fax to say no confidentiality but cant get a reply

 

Like extracting teeth

[walgrave]

I didn't have any contact with the solicitors until after the AQ was sent in but it might be worth writing to solicitors as you suggest. See what others think. Once they realise you are derfinitely prepared to go to court and you make the point that you have always been willing to reach an agreement, they might start talking turkey.

[tlrose]

I myself took Lloyds to court and they settled at the same time as filing a defence, but they seemed to be using a solicitors called Martineau Johnson in London.

 

However I am going through the same process on behalf of my girlfriend and she has just recieved the allocation questionnaire and it is Sechiari who are dealing with hers.

 

I am confident that they will settle her case as they did mine. Lloyds seem to like to drag it out as long as possible.

 

Hope that helps.

[Pete Finlay]

Hi

after giving it some thought, I am going to send a letter to SC&M as follows:

Please find enclosed a copy of the Allocation Questionnaire I recently submitted as the Claimant to Hastings County Court in respect of claim number 6HS01505 against your clients, Lloyds Tsb Bank Plc.

 

I have copied this to you as a courtesy in order for you to be aware of a short period in September when I will not be able to attend court. I am sure that the court will notify you, but I thought you would appreciate the information as soon as possible.

 

You will notice that I have specifically requested that there be no postponement to allow time to settle the claim by informal discussion as I have been in correspondence with your client since 19th May 2006 over this matter, and they have steadfastly refused to enter into any form of discussion or negotiation with me despite the fact that I was willing to resolve this matter by agreement. I therefore feel that the only way to resolve this situation is to bring this matter to the County Court for their decision.

 

Please also note that I have requested that the Court order Standard Disclosure over the subject of the contested charges levied by the bank.

 

The County Court and your Client were both provided with full details of the contested charges and interest calculations on the Particulars of Claim – please advise me if you have received a copy from your client; if not, then please contact me and I will provide one for you.

 

So, I will see what sort of response we receive. If nothing else, it has initiated some sort of dialogue with them.

 

By the way, SC&M in Brighton is a one-man outfit - there is only 1 solicitor / lawyer at that office, and the firm only has 3 solicitors spread over a total of (I think) 4 offices in the UK. Guess they must be pretty busy.

 

Regards to all.

 

ps, what's this about a Test Case in London this week mentioned on another thread?

[walgrave]

Good letter. I'll keep an eye on your progress as my son's friend has asked me to help him get his money back from Lloyds TSB once son's claim is settled. I bet you get a swift response. Good luck.

 

Walgrave

[Pete Finlay]

Hi all;

the thread title says it all really. Does anybody know of anyone who has taken an action out against Lloyds, or any other bank, that has ended up in front of a Judge?

 

I believe that there was one case (last year?) that was thrown out or dismissed in London (at the Merchantile Court?) on a technicality, but I am interested if there have been any more.

 

There was mention on another thread on this forum that one forum member had been told by the Court that they were waiting on the results of a case that is either being heard, or is due to be heard, but I can't find any mention of this case anywhere.

 

AQ sent to Court last week, and a copy to Lloyds solicitors over the weekend - nothing heard from them as yet.

 

regards to all

[Pete Finlay]

When we received our Allocation Questionnaire, we had to file it by 11th September. The last date for filing the AQ was 11th September (today).

 

Our form was sent off a week ago, and the court has received it. However, when I rang the court today they told me that the defence (Lloyds) had NOT filed their AQ by the cut off day - today.

 

What has surprised me is that when I asked what would now happen, the Clerk told me the file would be passed to the judge at the end of this week, and he would probably look at the file at the end of NEXT week i.e. 11 days after the cut off date for returning the AQ. I was also told that the judge could do one of three things at this stage:

 

a. Set a court date without waiting for the defence's AQ,

b. Instruct the defence to submit their AQ pretty damn quick, or

c. Strike out the defence and find for us.

 

Am I the only one who find's this sort of approach a bit haphazard? I was under the (obviously mistaken) impression that if either side failed to meet any of these court deadlines, then it would be fairly automatic that the other side would win. This is obviously not the case when it comes to filing AQs.

 

regards to all

[reload]

More likely than not Pete, the judge will take option C. I obviously can't say for certain, but we already know that the bank charges stuff is the talk of the circuit - and many judges are getting rapidly p****** off with the banks over their behaviour.

 

Fingers crossed for you.

[Pete Finlay]

Hi everyone.

We started proceedings against Lloyds several months ago. Received their (standard) defence. We filed our Allocation Questionnaire on 25th August, well before the deadline of 11th September, and we sent a letter to SC&M in Brighton the same day (25th August) with a copy of our completed AQ "out of courtesy".

 

Received a letter today (27th September) from SC&M with Lloyds AQ, and asking if we could send them a copy of our AQ.

 

Rang SC&M not 30 minutes ago, and they confirmed that they had, in fact, received our AQ a month ago. They also confirmed that they had made a typo in their letter in that it wasn't the Northampton Court, but the Hastings Court where they had filed their AQ (doesn't anyone in SC&M proofread their letters?).

 

Interestingly, when I brought up the matter of the 1 month's stay of execution that they had requested on their AQ, I was told that this was standard procedure in order to give Lloyds time to settle, because (and I quote) "Lloyds always like to settle these claims before going to court".

 

The nice lady at SC&M indicated that they were just waiting for Lloyds to come back to them with instructions to settle.

 

There is light at the end of the tunnel, and it's not a bloody train coming the other way!

 

[sonic007]

hi there chris

 

l am too dealing with lloyds but have sent in my S.A.R. been over a month now and no reply any advise you can give me would be very gratefull

 

thanks

 

S.Mann

[Pete Finlay]

Morning;

in reply to your message:

hi there chris

 

l am too dealing with lloyds but have sent in my S.A.R. been over a month now and no reply any advise you can give me would be very gratefull

thanks

S.Mann

 

the best advice I can give is to check out the Library on this forum - it is an excellent source of information, guidance and help. In particular concerning S.A.R.s, it says:

 

• The request is not valid until it is properly received at the bank and is accompanied by the maximum statutory payment of £10.

• You should ensure that the bank has all the information about you which it needs to identify you in it's records and also to be satisfied that it is you who is requesting the data disclosure.

• If the request is incomplete in any way then the bank has a valid reason for not complying.

• The bank has 40 days in which to comply with your request. You would be well advised to follow the request up with regular chasers - by telephone if possible but also by letter - especially if you have not received any acknowledgement of your request. Keep a diary of all calls and copies of all letters. You are urged to record telephone conversations if possible.

• When your data arrives, if you consider that it is incomplete then complain immediately to the bank and tell them that the 40 days is still running.

• Some people have received their data inadequately packaged or is damaged and in some cases it is clear that some data has fallen out of the package. If this is the case, then you should photograph the package before you open it, then try to assess what may be missing. Send an immediate letter of complaint to the bank together with some of the photos. You may also feel that your security has been compromised by the bank. In this case you should contact your branch immediately and insist on new account numbers, cards etc.

• If the bank fails to supply you with your data then you should complain to the bank. Give them 7 days to comply and tell them that you will begin a complaint to the Information Commissioner and also that you will begin a County Court action under the Data Protection Act.

If the bank does not respond to your 7 day warning then begin your complaint and start your action

 

Warmest regards - and don't give up!

[Pete Finlay]

Hi everyone;

 

AQ sent off over a month ago, and nothing heard ......

 

....until Friday when we received a letter from the District Judge who had ordered a stay to allow a settlement to be reached, by 11th November.

 

Considering I've contacted SC&M twice times by letter and three times by phone asking if their clients wishes to enter any form of dialogue, AND have been ignored after every attempt, I personally do not see what effect this stay will have.

 

I have written to SC&M pointing out that the ball's in their court (no pun intended) and that I will write to the District Judge to inform him/her that to date SC&M and Lloyds refuse to talk.

 

I have also written to the Judge stating that whilst I will naturally comply with the Order and attenpt to enter discussions with SC&M and their Client, I don't hold out much hope as they have ignored me to date.

 

Let's see if I get a reply from either of them.

 

Meanwhile, what happens when the date of the Stay has come and gone? Do I have to then inform the Court / Judge that my attempts to resolve the issue have met with a refusal of SC&M and Lloyds to talk to me?

 

regards to all

[freebird]

Pete, not sure if you have this already but here it is ....

Mr. Thomas , manager at sechiari...tel....01273 205 391......

see my thread, they reckon they were sending me a letter on Friday but wouldn't tell me what it was about...if it's confirming another stay, I'll go spare....

I'll post in my thread to let everyone know what's going on...

good luck

[Pete Finlay]

Further to me writing a letter to the District Judge who ordered a stay until 11th November in order for the parties to reach settlement, I have received a reply from the Court Claims Section:

 

"I am in receipt of your letter dated 13th October 2006.

 

If at the end of the stay a settlement has not been reached, you may write to the Judge explaining the situation and the file can be referred to the Judge for directions."

 

So although our AQ was sent off at the end of August, followed 2 weeks later by the AQ from SC&M, it has taken the Court over a month to decide that they will order a stay until 11th November - some 2 months after the AQ deadline.

 

I have no idea whether this is because:

1. The Court are fed up with these claims and don't want to waste their resources when they know that the banks invariably settle before the hearing date, or
   
2. The Court is snowed under with other cases and are just trying to give themself some space, or
   
3. The Court genuinely believe that SC&M and Lloyds will enter into a meaningful discussion regarding our claim during this period.

Whatever the reason, it's really frustrating.

 

I have decided that once a week until the 11th November I will send SC&M a registered letter asking them to discuss settlement as required by the Judge's Order. At least that way I will be in a position to write to the Judge at the end of the stay with proof that I have obeyed his Order in attempting to reach settlement, even if Lloyds and SC&M have not.

 

regards to all

[sagaloo]

I am in the same position as you. My claim was stayed until the 5th October with a deadline for action of the 19th October.

 

Tried SCM this afternoon and was told Mr Thomas was away today.

 

I have since spoken to my court who suggested I write to the Court Manager outlining what action I have attempted - I am going to cc SCM and fax to both the Court and SCM.

[freebird]

me too Pete and sagaloo,

I'm doing a letter now sagaloo, after the court suggested the same to me today, she actually said hurry up and send it and when I asked her why she wouldn't say but just said the sooner the better.....

I'm actually wondering whats going on lately with all these stays, do you think the courts and Solicitors know something we don't.

I'm sick of trying to get Mr. Thomas and after him telling me that they'd write to me last week, I now think that he knew that the stay was on it's way and he again was just stalling......

I'm sick of it all...

[RETURNED TO SENDER]

I got my stay removed by cutting and pasting a letter from the library of this site and adding my relevant parts to the letter, it was done within a week of the court receiving it and I did not pay a fee, the day after the court removed the stay Lloyds settled in full.

[Zedwoo]

What letter did you use? oh and was the deadline for the stay for settlement up or was their still time.

 

I think I will forward the same letter.