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    • ok looks like that's what you need to do. but keep it bare bones for now as post 5  
    • stuff and all if there no signed agreement in the return   dx  
    • 1st again why do you keep changing things before you send them   you've added counterclaim in to our std CPR 31:14 you sent? why? this opens you up to additional costs and I hope you didnt tick counterclaim when you did AOS on mcol too?   also I notice you've  played with our std OD defence above too...   pers I would refrain from continuing to change things as they are written in the frain they are for specific reasons.   your defence is due by 4pm Monday [day 33]   here are 2 versions you will ofcourse need to adapt them to lowells para no's and remove the NOA stuff as your docs show Lowell have complied with those. but don't forget to mention other documents provided to date notably statements contain no proof they came from Lloyds but rather Lowells own internal data system    dx   1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant entering into an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') with the [insert original creditor] . .  2. The defendant denies that the account exceeded the agreed overdraft limit due to overdrawing of funds but is as a result of unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account. .  3. I refute the claimants claim is owed or payable. The amount claimed is comprised of amongst others default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, missed or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety. .  4. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon. .  5. The claimant is denied from added section 69 interest within the total claimed that as yet to be decided at the courts discretion. .  6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. .  The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-. .  (a) Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, that this claim is based on.  (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.  (c) Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account with justification.  (d) Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.  (e) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.  (f) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct. .  7. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated [xxxxxxx] namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request. .  By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. .  .............. or  Particulars of Claim  1.The claim is for the sum of 2470.56 in respect of monies owing pursuant to an overdraft facility under account number XXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX.  2.The debt was legally assigned by Santander UK Plc to the claimant and notice has been served.   3.The Defendant has failed to repay overdrawn sums owing under the terms and conditions of the bank account.   The Claimant claims:  The sum of 2470.56 Interest pursuant to s69 of the county courticon Act 1984 at a rate of 8.00 percent from the 7/04/2015 to the date hereof 14 days is the sum of 7.58Daily interest at the rate of .54  Costs Defence  The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant once having had banking facilities with the original creditor Santander Bank. It is denied that I am indebted for any alleged balance claimed.   2. Paragraph 2 is denied.I am not aware or ever receiving any Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon.   3. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Original Creditor has never served notice pursuant to 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974  Any alleged amount claimed could only consist in the main of default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbeyicon National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.  4. As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.  The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.  (a) Provide a copy agreement/overdraft facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception that this claim is based on.  (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.  (c) Provide a breakdown of all excessive charging/fees and show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.   (d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.  (e) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.  5. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated April 2015 namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request.   By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  Regards  Andy    
    • Hi   Just read your thread and looked at the Docs posted in your PDF.   1. from AST to rent a Car Parking space you need to have signed a Car Parking Agreement for a Space and for visitors you should have asked permission for another space in advance with a fee to pay. (i also assume renting a parking space would be at a cost)   2. You have no signed Car Parking Agreement nor visitor space agreement.   Did you not fully read that AST before you signed it and pick up what is stated about parking and ask them about this Car Parking Agreement and if you need one to park in the car park?   You could formally complain to them about what was verbally said to you but unless you have evidence of this it may be hard to prove.   You should also contact them and ask how you go about renting a Car Parking space/costs and about the Car Parking Agreement also what the process is for a visitor car parking space/costs.   You need to be aware that they could class you and your visitor as illegally parking in there car park without consent nor a signed car parking agreement which they could use as a Breach of your Tenancy Agreement so you need to be careful in how you are approaching this and where you are parking.   Just for info on checking Manchester Life website they have numerous buildings/apartments/car parks but you may be in a building where some of the apartments are leasehold and as part of there leasehold they may have purchased a car parking space in that building. (so how do you know you are not parking in a space that someone in the building has legally purchased?)
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Premier Park ANPR PCN - Exeter Road, Braunton PCN - Insufficient/Unclear Notice of Terms

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Dear all,

 

Exeter Road Car Park, Braunton, EX33 2JJ - Parking Charge Notice

 

I have also been subject to this rather off-putting Parking Charge Notice in the same place;

 

Following the thread above I have completed the questions from the link below:

 

1. Date of the infringement: - 05/10/18.

2. Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]: - 11/10/18.

3. Date received: - 12 or 13/10/18.

4. Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?]: - Yes.

5. Is there any photographic evidence of the event?: - Yes. Two photos of car. Two of numberplate [both dark].

6. Have you appealed? [y/n?] post up your appeal]: - Not yet, but I have drafted it and posted below.

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up: - N/A - not yet.

7. Who is the parking company?: - Premier Park Ltd

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]: - Exeter Road Car Park, Braunton, EX33 2JJ

 

Draft online Parking Charge Notice Appeal wording:

 

"Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Please be advised that in normal circumstances I am law and rule abiding, in any case.
At the time in question this was no different, however, after recalling this journey to an area that I am not familiar with and which receives a significant amount of tourism traffic, I would state that the terms and conditions of the car park are not sufficient for the average visitor to use and create a valid contract.

 

Specifically I am appealing against the availability of, and clearness of, the signage and how well lit the car park is to make this reasonably visible to any user in order to create an acceptable contract.

 

At the time of the evening stated, and as can be evidenced from your own photographic evidence stated, it was almost pitch black dark if not for the light omitted from a vehicle itself. So much so that the vehicle make, model, colour or driver cannot be determined.

 

If I recall correctly, at the given time of the evening, a bus also pulled into the bus lane outside the car park on Exeter Road, meaning that anyone would have to tightly pull in front of it to gain access to the car park, missing blocked entry signage and parking terms signage.

 

The darkness of the evidence provided also does not display and make clear were my car was photographed and if it even entered the car park or remained stationary/unattended there for any period of time at all.

 


Please can I appeal to good faith that if the displays were clear and visible I would have seen no option but to comply with the terms and conditions, but in this case, for multiple reasons, the terms were not clear enough for me to be made aware to do so at the time.

 

There is also no evidence provided to the contrary that the car park is clearly displayed, including its terms, or sufficiently lit to substantiate the claim that any contravention was intentionally made at the time.

 

If you do not agree that this penalty has been unfairly applied and reject my appeal, I will be left with no option but to further this appeal with IAS.

 

I look forward to hearing from you

 

Regards,"

 

---------------

 

Any help you could give here would be greatly appreciated?? and I hope that this helps others

 

Thank you

Edited by dx100uk
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as they are members of the IPC all your appeal will do is waste a stamp, it wont be allowed and nor will the IAS appeal.

 

Post up their NTK so we can see if they have created a keeper liability in the wording as it has to fit in with the protocols of the POFA 2012 and most IPC members dont bother because they have Will and John at gladstones/IPC to fall back on and they have superpowers that mena they dont have to obey the law.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras

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Hi and welcome to CAG

 

 

It is unusual for an IPC member to be using PoFA. By all means appeal to PP but expect to get rejected but that means you then having to go to the Independent Appeal Service (IAS) who will also reject your appeal for the simple reason that it's not in their members interests to go against them. The IPC, the IAS are run by the same people so how can an appeal ever be treated with an unbiased opinion.

 

 

If you did appeal to PP, ensure that you never name the driver, You are under no obligation to do so.

 

 

My personal opinion. Ignore as they have taken one case to court this year.

 

 

I will have a look on google to see what is visible at the site in daylight.


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made my comments on the other thread you tagged on to but would like to see the NTK so we can see if they have got the wording right to even start a fight, let alone win one.

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Posts moved to your own thread


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so in short file your appeal in the bin and show us what they have sent. We can then advise from there as to what to do next but it will in the long run include getting images of the siganeg and equipment at the site.

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as they are members of the IPC all your appeal will do is waste a stamp, it wont be allowed and nor will the IAS appeal.

 

 

Post up their NTK so we can see if they have created a keeper liability in the wording as it has to fit in with the protocols of the POFA 2012 and most IPC members dont bother because they have Will and John at gladstones/IPC to fall back on and they ahve superpowers that mena they dont have to obey the law.

 

Not familiar with the term NTK but I assume you're referring to the terms on the back so I have posted up the letter, both sides..

181011 Premier Park Ltd.pdf

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Hi and welcome to CAG

 

 

It is unusual for an IPC member to be using PoFA. By all means appeal to PP but expect to get rejected but that means you then having to go to the Independent Appeal Service (IAS) who will also reject your appeal for the simple reason that it's not in their members interests to go against them. The IPC, the IAS are run by the same people so how can an appeal ever be treated with an unbiased opinion.

 

 

If you did appeal to PP, ensure that you never name the driver, You are under no obligation to do so.

 

 

My personal opinion. Ignore as they have taken one case to court this year.

 

 

I will have a look on google to see what is visible at the site in daylight.

 

 

So what we're saying here is that the people giving oversight are in bed with the people they're giving oversight to and rely on their membership to survive, so will not act independently!?

Conclusion being that there is no point in doing anything other than settling the Parking Charge?

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Yes to your first question but definitely no to the second one. :D

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Yes to your first question but definitely no to the second one. :D

 

HB

 

So the big question is, what do I do now. There's a lot of favour for not just settling the PCN, but what else can I do successfully?

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what to do? well read a bundle of the thread on here for starters and then you will realise what NTK means and then realise why we say do nothing for the moment. Ignorance of their modus operandi will cause you more grief than their letters so sit tight and use the time to learn a few things from other posts

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you will then see that their NTK isnt compliant with the POFA to create any liability or debt at all as they have missed out a vital phrase from the letter.

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Hi and welcome to CAG

 

 

It is unusual for an IPC member to be using PoFA. By all means appeal to PP but expect to get rejected but that means you then having to go to the Independent Appeal Service (IAS) who will also reject your appeal for the simple reason that it's not in their members interests to go against them. The IPC, the IAS are run by the same people so how can an appeal ever be treated with an unbiased opinion.

 

 

If you did appeal to PP, ensure that you never name the driver, You are under no obligation to do so.

 

 

My personal opinion. Ignore as they have taken one case to court this year.

 

 

I will have a look on google to see what is visible at the site in daylight.

 

Were you able to look it up and did you find anything worth noting of use?

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what to do? well read a bundle of the thread on here for starters and then you will realise what NTK means and then realise why we say do nothing for the moment. Ignorance of their modus operandi will cause you more grief than their letters so sit tight and use the time to learn a few things from other posts

 

The problem is, I'm just a person. A person who lives 250 miles from where a parking contravention supposedly took place, which would cost me more than the charge again just to go down there and take photos as evidence.

 

I'm just an average person who has no history of this sort of infraction and doesn't really want one hanging over their head either, much like most of the people who will be reading this and will generally be decent people. I have no knowledge of the industry or the people who influence it and it's perfectly fine to offer help but none of this is objective and I could just be leading myself into having something that is going to hang over me longer and create further cost in the long run.

 

It's also fine to use acronyms when explaining something to save time, but it then takes me (or any average person looking at this with a plead for help) ten times the amount saved just to work out what everyone is saying. Time that then evaporates and in less than 24 hours I am staring down the barrel of a PCN that is double the cost it is now.

 

I don't know what a Notice To Keeper should or shouldn't say, what a keeper liability needs to say, what vital phrases should be included, and I am relying solely on advice given here to completely ignore every sign that I should settle it and give myself the peace of mind that I'm not going to receive increased demands or worse, a court letter. I would much rather not roll-over, and reject a biased system, but what evidence do I have to go on!? Even if the PCN I have been issue with has the wrong wording, what is there that I can do with that??

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PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

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Hi, I started on that thread and than moved it to a new thread.

 

The information on that thread is just as inconclusive as the information given on mine.

 

Even if the notice to keeper isn't compliant with POFA, there isn't anywhere that says they won't hound you to death with demand letters and threats of court.

 

Whilst all of this is encouraging, it's almost impossible to see how it can be challenged.

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It's not nice to receive threatening letters, but at the moment that's all they are. You're not facing a court case. No judge is ordering you to pay money. Some fleecers are trying it on, that's where you are at present.

 

These conmen rely on scare tactics so drivers think it's better to pay … whereas in reality they are often paper tigers. As silverfox wrote: "My personal opinion. ignore as they have taken one case to court this year". If the company won't do court, how can they make you pay? - they simply can't!

 

As well as the threads dx mention, have a look through the first sticky above, which is a collection of successes against these thieves, it's not impossible to beat them, in fact often it's very easy.

  • Haha 1

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they won't hound you to death with demand letters and threats of court. Whilst all of this is encouraging, it's almost impossible to see how it can be challenged.

 

They WILL hound you to death with demand letters and threats of court. But why does this worry you? It's just toilet paper sent by paper tigers. It means nothing. Until you get a proper legal Letter Before Action there's nothing to worry about.

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They WILL hound you to death with demand letters and threats of court. But why does this worry you? It's just toilet paper sent by paper tigers. It means nothing. Until you get a proper legal Letter Before Action there's nothing to worry about.

 

That is my whole point - I don't want to receive a proper legal Letter Before Action of any kind, regardless of whether 100 or 0 demand letters come before that...

There's no real solution here.

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ofcourse there is DF!!

 

have you never had debt collection letters before from DCA's??

 

that's all they can do is send threat-o-grams

they have zero legal powers..they are not bailiffs

 

dx


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WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

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your best bet is to get reading any/all threads in this forum.

 

the more you read the stronger we become.

 

you'll soon get the idea


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

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DX did you really mean 'your best bet is not to get reading' ?


My time as a Police Officer and subsequently time working within the Motor Trade gives me certain insights into the problems that consumers may encounter.

I have no legal qualifications.

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I agree about reading up on how these people work and how they can be defeated. As far as I can see, you've only read a very few threads on parking companies.

 

 

Fwiw, if I had a parking problem I would want someone like ericsbrother advising me and I would put my trust in him. You have to admit that what you've done so far on your own initiative has only made things harder for you, sadly.

 

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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DX did you really mean 'your best bet is not to get reading' ?

 

:lol::lol:

 

editing now..

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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you have a choice, stand up or pay up.

We are here to help with the latter and can show you why the debt isnt real and how to defeat the parking co's greed but we cant make them stop abusing the law or stop harassing you, that is the only way they can earn ANY money as almost none of their demands are legal.

 

Even if you pay up how do you stop them claiming that you still owe money?

It is only becasue they know they will be clobbered by the authorities if they did that they dont.

 

They all used to be clampers and look how well that worked for them when they had your car, they could demand anything they wanted and get it.

The reason they said £100 is because people will pay it,

 

back in 2012 wheh the POFA came in the average claim was £40 and inflation would push that to less than £50 by now but as they cant clamp to earn an unwarranted fortune they have to fill their boots by other methods.

Edited by dx100uk
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