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alladin78

CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

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as with many of the CEL claims the managers of the car park are starpark and not CEL.

That means the agreement with the landowner must allow them to give third party rights and I bet they dont.

 

So no contract with CEL or if you accept that this sign assigns the right to CEL to collect money then starpark have no rights to offer you anything so the sign isnt a contract.

 

Slightly confusing but it is about agency

- the right of third parties to force an interest on the deal.

 

Parking co's have tried this on before but have always failed.

Even companies with the same named owner cant win let alone companies that have their true ownership hidden and no connection evident via their registration at companies house.

 

In your case the CPR 31.14 request becomes more of an issue when they dont respond as you can state that they have no locus standi and tht the signage is misleading and thus an unfair contract so the whole lot is void

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and it doesn't? say 10 mins... it must say a minimum of 10 mins..if not they've shot themselves in the foot there.

 

Sorry I’m not sure I understood. The sign says “... within 10 minutes “ is that not legal?

Also do you need more pictures of the car park? I can get them tomorrow.

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not within the guidelines they must adhere too..but that doesn't usually stop them trying to fleece the unaware punter=99.9% of the population.

 

you have a minimum of 10mins …

 

use our search cag box of the top red toolbar

type in

 

10 mins


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if there is a parking meter or signs that say anything else then we need to see them. More of the same doesnt change things but do check carefully

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No there is no parking meter,

it’s a small car park 11 spaces total operated by Star park.

 

Only option to pay is by phone (call number on the board) or via their app and registering your details.

 

There are a total of 4 boards.

3 of them are Phone&Pay purple ones, and 1 white one which I’ve uploaded a photo of.

 

I’ll check again today and take a few more pics.

I’ve sent the CPR 3114 to CEL.

Thanks again.

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can we see the back of the N1 form where it is signed by the claimant or their representative?

this is important as CEL have a habit of not doing this correctly and that makes the claim invalid or at least gets then clobbered for up to 50% of the amount they can get if they are successful.

 

As courts are overwhelmed by claims from parking companies something has to give and I see that the courts will come down on them because the claims are mostly filed by lawyers who have no excuse fro getting it wrong.

 

We will advise what to say in your later request for summary dismissal of the claim after we get past this first hurdle

Edited by honeybee13
pa

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@ericsbrother, @dx100uk,

 

I've scanned and redacted the whole claim form - all 4 sheets (8 pages) - there is nothing additional I could find apart from the small section on the front page which I had uploaded a while back - but you may be able to spot something.

 

 

I've also attached more car park pics - this one has all the signs, and the 2 close ups for the signs at the entrance.

 

Thanks for all your help and guidance.

CarParkpics.pdf

CalimFormFull.pdf

Edited by dx100uk
Quote/spacing

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not signed then just typed...clever of them hides who is doing it


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OK the claim form has been improperly signed as it doesnt have a name on it and also states it is signed by claimants legal representative so should be the name of a SRA regulated solicitor.

 

Now this is somehting to make a noise about as you might get the claim chucked out and the they will be told to start again if you are lucky.

When does your outline defence have to be in by?

 

there are new rules governing this and a company that files loads of claims shouldnt be forgiven for doing it wrong but that relies on a judge seeing all the paperwork well before time and often it is just the admin people who sort things out and they may not bring it to the attention of the judge.

 

However, still worth putting a bit in your defence or even a separate letter to go with it asking for a summary dismissal of the claim on procedural grounds ( this and too vague a claim)

Edited by honeybee13
Paras, typos

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Hi @ericsbrother

My claim date is 11/10/18, I guess within 33 days of that means before 13/11/18?

Are there templates for the defence I can use? Not sure how to start/open my statement.

Thanks

Al

Edited by dx100uk
quote

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twill be the 12th by 4pm.

 

twill be the std 3 line defence in almost all PPC claimform threads here with a bit added re above.

 

as long as the CPR went off … your ok for now but no harm in reading up.

 

dx


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as said earlier, all you need at this juncture is an outline defence so bullet points on why you dont owe them money, not essays about the detail of each point, that come later.

 

I would go with a variation on the usual lack of contract and say:

 

1. The claimant has no locus standi in this matter, the contract to park is with a different company.

 

2. the main signage at the site is not an offer of a contract but an invitation to treat and the defendant denies that there was an agreed contract to breach.

 

3. The claimant has failed to follow the Civil Procedure rules by failing to issue a letter before action and the claim is too vague to see what the claim is actually for.

 

The claimant has also failed to show who is issuing this claim as they have stated that CEL are the legal representative of the claimant but havent stated who that is when signing the form.

 

The defendant states that this is not an error but an abuse of process and therefore requests that the claim be summarily dismissed under CPR 3.4 and states that it is likely to fail anyway

Edited by dx100uk
spacing.

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for the last part put that in a letetr as well and send it separately if you are using MCOL

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Hi @ericsbrother

This is what I have in the MCOL Defence particulars section:

 

The defendant states the following:

 

1. The claimant has no locus standi in this matter, the contract to park is with a different company.

 

2. the main signage at the site is not an offer of a contract but an invitation to treat and the defendant denies that there was an agreed contract to breach.

 

3. The claimant has failed to follow the Civil Procedure rules by failing to issue a letter before action and the claim is too vague to see what the claim is actually for. The claimant has also failed to show who is issuing this claim as they have stated that CEL are the legal representative of the claimant but haven't stated who that is when signing the form.

 

The defendant states that this is not an error but an abuse of process and therefore requests that the claim be summarily dismissed under CPR 3.4 and

states that it is likely to fail anyway

 

Is that enough?

Do I need to state that I admit to being the keeper of the vehicle etc.. (other points in the template)?

 

I sent the CPR3114 on 18th and it was signed for on 19th Oct by Regus (believe they are the building maintenance/reception).

 

You mentioned putting the last line in a separate letter.

Did you mean point 3?

And who/where do I send this to?

CEL?

Thanks

Edited by dx100uk
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that will do fine. don't add anything..thats for later

 

pers I wouldn't file that yet you are weeks away from needing to do it. [12th November by 4pm]

they could respond to your CPR if you file early now and that might harm you in the long run as you've already filed a defence

they could also see you've done it early on mcol and then mess you around when theres nowt you can do about it till the WS stage if it gets that far.

 

as for point 3 yes send that in a letter to CEL ref your case number.


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Thanks @dx100uk

Ok I’ll wait to submit my defence. Don’t like leaving it to the last day though.

Should I send the letter to CEL now or at the same time as defence?

Regards

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what you like or don't is immaterial this is a court claim and should be deal with in the correct manner.

 

as for the letter send it now


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Hi @ericsbrother

 

What format should I expect to see the response for the CPR?

I've not received anything yet.

Do I get any email/letter notifications for the next steps on MCOL?

 

I've put the following in a letter to CEL.

----

The claimant has failed to follow the Civil Procedure rules by failing to issue a letter before action and the claim is too vague to see what the claim is actually for.

 

The claimant has also failed to show who is issuing this claim as they have stated that CEL are the legal representative of the claimant but haven’t stated who that is when signing the form.

 

The defendant states that this is not an error but an abuse of process and therefore requests that the claim be summarily dismissed under CPR 3.4 and states that it is likely to fail anyway.

----

 

Is there anything else I need to do before 12th Nov?

 

Thanks Al

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read your thread post 40


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you had better start reading the advice more carefully,

at no point has anyone said write to CEL,

 

by the 12th of this month you write your outline defence to the COURT and you may include a bit saying you do not believe they have the authority from the landowner etc as per the wording of your CPR 31.14 request because they havent sent this to you.

 

You had also better read a load more threads on parking in general and court cases in particular so you dont snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by failing to read the paperwork the COURT sends you.

Edited by dx100uk
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Hi @ericsbrother

 

Sorry I'm confused, and anxious.

 

In post 41 - as response to my questions in post 40

(following your suggestion from a previous post 39, added below),

@dx100uk said "as for point 3 yes send that in a letter to CEL ref your case number."

 

So should I not send it? it is very confusing :???:

 

I was meant to have posted it today, but luckily got busy and couldn't do it.

 

Thanks

Edited by alladin78
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for the last part put that in a letetr as well and send it separately if you are using MCOL

 

@ericsbrother - this post, where you suggest putting in a separate letter - who do I send this to? Thanks

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to the court

but I read that wrong too.

I know in the past we have written to the PPC directly when we've seen these abuses of due process giving them the chance to drop the claim...but obv things have moved on or its not appropriate to CEL as we know people that shouldn't be signing as a solicitor ARE doing so.

you'd have to read up on the history of CEL to understand this one.


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

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Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

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hi @dx100uk

The letter to court - is that the response pack I need to fill in from the N9B claim form page 4 titled "Defence and Counterclaim (specified amount)" ? OR do I just send it as a plain letter with Claim reference mentioned?

 

I've been reading up on CEL and country court claims - both on CAG and pepipoo and other sites - and I'm just getting more confused :(

I will start to draft up a full defence this weekend.

Thanks

Edited by dx100uk
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