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    • Any advice on what remedies are available given the following circumstances - would be much appreciated. Dec 23, HMCTS enforcement officer (HMCEO) knocks on the door. Stating he possesses a “warrant of control” (WOC) issued by xxxxxx Justice Centre (HJC) to recover unpaid fines for driving offences. Further stating, he is there “to execute the warrant and take goods to the value of .. if the warrant wasn’t settled in cash/monies” After requesting proof I was given a quick glimpse (seconds) of a small tablet/palm sized “computer” I only caught flash of a white screen. I notified him, A number of times, I needed to see a copy of said woc. I was unaware of any outstanding warrant. I was not going to pay as the matter was live and had been sent to XXXX Crown Court with Jan hearing. It was not my property but my dear friend’s (14yrs) home. He was not coming in and he was not going to force entry. I asked how come he was at this address – no reply. He had better phone the old bill, if he had any issues. As he had not set foot in the house, I closed the door I was unaware the purported WOC or any warrant, I was under the impression my case was with the courts. My requests for a copy were persistently refused, I was unaware what case(s) were listed as “outstanding on this purported WOC”.  (had live S172 with the courts with an appeal) this alleged woc was totally unrelated.   With supporting high court documents I approached his Co vehicle to reasonably discuss what was going on. After exchanging a few words, he had my name down as the address we were at. Oddly, he then stated the car at the same address which he was blocking in, was mine !! – It was not and never has been ! neither was it reg/ins at that address. I could hear the police sirens approaching, No issues with those attending at all. The first officer lady (ONr1) approached, listened to what I had to say. Then went to speak with "HMCEO". I went inside to gain more evidence that his documents were invalid.   Ms xxxxxx (property/title holder) produced a mortgage document stating the title holder. It was dissmissed by by both "HMCEO" and Police I produced a number of court documents; High Court document with correct address from HHJ xxxxx, HMCTS stating my case was to be heard at xxxxx Crown Court Jan date DVLA drivers license with xxxxxxx with correct address. All documents dismissed by both HMCEO and Police. My trial documents had the correct address as did HMCTS. ONr1 was now joined ONr2, they both concluded the HMCEO WOC document superseded my High court documents as it was addressed to xxxxx. High court documents were irrelevant as the address was “different” from my friends home. I was dumbfounded when the officers stated the “HMCEO was here to collect a debt as instructed by the court”, if I was “to obstruct him in his duties I would be arrested and removed”. I still had not seen any proof of an actual woc I unsuccessfully challenged the officers comments for a fair few moments, then realised no matter what I said, did or otherwise, they had made up their minds and where going to arrest me if my objections persisted. I could not believe I was witnessing misfeasance in public office. Where’s the impartiality I asked ??  - no reply.   I requested more time to collect and gather myself.   I could not raise the amount of money demanded. HMCEO would not accept a pay plan, as apparently the demanded sums had been outstanding for some time. Payment in full was again demanded or a locksmith would be called to drill the locks and force entry. (destruction of 3rd party property) with threat of further hundreds of pounds to be added.   I strongly objected, stating I had no entitlement of title to Nr xxxxxx, neither of the three were interested. Full payment was again demanded or entry will be forced and goods removed.   I was melting down and in a dark place mentally, xxxxx was also in a terrible state considering the threats made against her and her beloved property. even the old bill had chosen to support a private company break the law !!.   " HMCEO" persisted his menacing demands to extort monies. Finally, Diane, under extreme duress and threats of forced entry, coupled with threats of arrest if I didn’t stand aside and let HMCEO extort monies. Against her better will and judgement she transferred monies form her and her sons account(s) to that of "Marston's". Effectively settling a third party debt. His actions amounted to theft, fraud, extortion, and fraud by false representation. Money had just been extorted from the best friend I had, and I was helpless. I understand the following facts are true, I have the opinion both myself, ms Kelly and her son were victims, and this happened here. Even if there was a valid WOC it was illegal as the case had previously been withdrawn; The act of threatening a victim’s person or property with violence, physical harm or destruction to coerce them into complying with demands. Threatened actions that constitute extortion when used to re-enforce an unwarranted demand would be offences in and of themselves (offences against the person or criminal damage). The Theft Act defines the instance of blackmail as one where: “a person with a view to gain for themselves or another or intending to cause loss to another makes an unwarranted demand with menaces. Dishonesty is not an element of the offence.” The sheer fact, he was supported by 2nr police officers – either of which or both, should have been sufficiently knowledgeable enough in criminal law, and vigilant enough to have seen and prevented a fraudulent crime against another(s) being committed with their support. ======= After the event - Next morning calls to/from HMCTS ======= Call from “Enforcement MoJ” confirmed they have already instructed Marstons Group as a matter of urgency to return all monies wrongly taken from Ms xxxxx .  HMCTS ..... Ms xxxxxx, 1/12/23 @ 11:50 States …”case withdrawn 28th Feb 23” email attached Purported WOC issued by Harrogate Justice Centre (HJC). for collection of fines for allegations by West Yorkshire Police (WYP), that had previously been withdrawn. Ref: HMCTS Letter Dated – XXth XX  2023: Case Nr. ********, listed for XXth XX 23 @ XX:XX WYP Letter. Headed - XXth XX 23, Trial at Kirklees Mags Court on XX/XX/2023 at XX:XX                                                     i.     WYP offer no evidence and request HMCTS, CPS - case be dismissed.  According to HJC There was no evidence of WOC ever been issued.   Ms xxxxxx & son, eventually had monies returned. No apology to either Ms xxxxxx or her son. Executed a “warrant of control” which was not prescribed by the HMCTS. His actions amounted to fraud, fraud by false representation. His actions amount to theft, fraud, and fraud by false representation. Extortion of monies by menace S12 Theft Act 76 Alledged "HMCEO" removed monies on two occasions from a third 3rd party bank accounts, 2nr sums circa £600 and £600 collectively totalling £1200.00 to which he had no legal right or obligation to do so. His actions amounted to theft, fraud, and fraud by false representation. Extortion of monies by menace S12 Theft Act 76 As ¶²⁸ above, removed monies under the false pretences of a certified bailiff, whilst not been in possession of the correct court documents entitling him to do so. He was thus acting as a “common debt collector” as such he was not entitled to charge any fees. His actions amounted to theft, fraud, fraud by false representation. Extortion of monies by menace S12 Theft Act 76  Alleged "HMCEO" Knowingly provided a false statement of fact to WYP knowing they would act upon those facts. The two attending police officers should have been sufficiently knowledgeable enough in criminal law, to prevent such a fraudulent crime been committed in their presence. The very fact there was legal correspondence from HHJ xxxxxxxx   xxxxx Crown Court within dated parameters surly overrides any civil documents purporting to be from HMCTS. Especially when PNC, DVLA, MIB, databases could instantly confirm/deny the defendants statement of address. This event (along with others) has not only devestated my life, but my friends too. To the extent I was admitted to Acute Mental Health Team NGH for 4/5wks as I was unable to cope with the effect this action had taken on my best friend. The consequences have been insumountable, the mere sight of the old bill now reduces me to a wreck. WHAT LEGAL REMEDIES (IF ANY) MAY BE AVAILABLE TO ME/US - How would one proceed ?? Contructive comments only please - **** takers and conspiracists jog on.  All HMCTS documents are available, Only 2nr Marston documents exist, 2nr receipts for payments taken.  Regards Mr Blue            
    • 1 Date of the infringement 14/12/2023   2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]  Issue date 27/17/2023   [scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s   3 Date received 10/12/2024   4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]  N   5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes   6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]  No   Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up No   7 Who is the parking company? Excel Parking   8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Brewery Street Car Park, Chesterfield, S417UG   For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IPC on their letter BPC on others I have attached all letters received to date by Excel and others.  Any advice is more than welcome PCN Letters_1_11zon.pdf
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£1200 magistrates fine, can bailiffs remove goods belonging to private limited company of which debtor is the director?


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Hi all,

 

I am new to this site so please forgive me if I have posted in the wrong place.

 

I have been fined £1200 by a magistrates court around 2 months ago.

At the time I was not able to pay and was instructed by my solicitor to state that I could pay in instalments once I had an income to avoid a harsher punishment by the judge who was not in the best of moods on the day.

 

I was advised by my solicitor and court staff to contact the collections department for fines to offer an amount I could pay monthly, every offer I ever made was refused for a payment plan but they kept telling me I could still make payments if I wished to do so.

To this day, I genuinely have been unable to make any payments.

 

Since becoming unemployed prior to this fine, I had to find a way to create an income.

I set up a private limited company in August 2018 working from home selling goods online.

I am the director of this company and 100% shareholder.

 

My question is,

now that I have started to receive letters from the court stating that further collection acticiry will take place, can bailiffs or court officers take control of assets/stock belonging to the private limited company which I am the director of?

Any help would be appreciated as I am expecting a knock on the door any day now.

 

Every week any money I make is being reinvested into existing and new stock, packaging, supplies etc.

I am not yet paying myself a wage.

I started this company with a surprise tax refund cheque and through selling my personal belongings as I needed to create a source of income as I was struggling to find work. This has paid off as my business is now getting somewhere so to speak.

 

If I have missed any crucial information please forgive me and I will reply asap to any questions or requests for further information.

I want to know whether what I have now finally built could be taken away by bailiffs / court collection officers!!

 

Kind regards

 

Hks91

Edited by dx100uk
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Was your solicitor present at the hearing or did you contact him following the hearing?

 

When you were in court, you should have been asked to complete a Means Statement (Form MC100). Did you do so?

 

Apart from your new business, you must have outgoings in order to survive. Are you living with parents?

 

Are you in receipt of any state benefits?

 

PS: It doesn't give me any great pleasure in saying so, but your solicitor has given you some dreadfully bad advice. If you can respond to the above queries, I can explain more.

 

It is important that you tell us what letters you have received from the court..and the date of the letters.

 

I am assuming that one letter is entitled: Notice of Fine & Collection Order and the 2nd notice is called a Further Steps Notice. It is this last notice that I am most concerned with. There will be a date of the FSN when it was issued. What is that date?

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I will respond to the second lot of questions in a separate post

 

The second 'Further Steps Notice' is the only one I have.

It is dated 14 September 2018.

If you need any more info please ask I will reply and thank you for replying

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In which case, I would think that you may well have a more urgent problem.

 

You would only have a period of 10 working days from the date of the Further Steps Notice in which to 'appeal' the relevant 'step' that the Fines Officer will use to enforce the fine. Unless you have provided evidence of a qualifying state benefit when you were in court, (in which case an attachment against benefits would be applied), the usual 'enforcement 'step' will for the Fines Officer to issue of a Warrant of Control> This will then be passed to a firm of bailiffs.

 

Have you as yet received correspondence from an enforcement company?

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I did not provide evidence of benefits in court no.

I have not received anything since this letter.

Not even from an enforcement company.

Does this mean that if the enforcement company sends someone out, they will be able to remove goods belonging to my company?

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unnecessary quotes of previous msgs removed

single line responses merged to one post

 

please just type rather than hitting reply with quote.

 

makes the thread twice as long to scroll through

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I did not provide evidence of benefits in court no.

I have not received anything since this letter.

 

When you attended the hearing, the court should have requested financial information from you.

 

Were your personal circumstances or financial situation discussed at any stage of the proceedings? Alternatively, did you provide any personal information BEFORE attending the hearing?

 

It is most unusual indeed for a court to impose a fine without the defendants 'means' being taken into consideration.

 

Was your solicitor in court with you? Did he raise any question about this?

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My barrister was with me.

The judge imposed the fine and gave me 28 days to pay the fine.

 

He said that I had to pay it by borrowing or using my savings etc as far as I remember.

No financial information evidence was asked of me before or after the hearing, only the statement of means which I filled in on the day on which I stated I had £500 in savings and was receiving benefits of £73.10 a week.

 

I then explained this to the court staff after the hearing who said to just call the number for the court fines office and ask to be put onto a payment plan.

 

Upon calling numerous times I kept being told I had to pay the money back within 6 months or less and if not they would not accept any payment plan.

 

Would assets and stock belonging to my company which I am the director of be taken as goods to sell? I can prove that the assets and stock belong to the company.

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My barrister was with me.

 

The judge imposed the fine and gave me 28 days to pay the fine. He said that I had to pay it by borrowing or using my savings etc as far as I remember.

 

No financial information evidence was asked of me before or after the hearing, only the statement of means which I filled in on the day on which I stated I had £500 in savings and was receiving benefits of £73.10 a week.

 

You had me worried that a court had imposed a fine without a Statement of Means being considered. So, the court DID consider your 'means'.

 

I will warn you in advance.....you will not like my response. However, if it helps anyone else in a similar position, then I have at least achieved something.

 

You had a Barrister assisting you. Given that this was a criminal matter, the Barrister should have known that a court fine is considered a PUNISHMENT because you have been found guilty of breaking the law. It is for this reason that a Magistrate Court fine is ALWAYS considered a PRIORITY debt. This is why, one of the 'Further Steps' that a court can impose in the event of non payment, is a custodial sentence.

 

If a person is in receipt of state benefits, the MINIMUM repayment that the court can consider is £5 per week (or £20 per month). Also, it is rare for the court to allow a payment proposal to extend past a period of 12 months.

 

Here is where you also have a problem:

 

In the Statement of Means, you confirmed that you had £500 in 'savings'. The court would expect you to use this sum to pay towards reducing the fine. Personally, I am pleased to hear that you had set up a small business with the money. The Fines Office is not likely to share my view.

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I really appreciate all of your advice and assistance with this. My probation officer has said the most likely option they would choose is to double the fine which makes no sense.

 

My main concern which is most urgent is regarding assets and stock which belong to my business. In the case that the court pursues the debt via a collection agency, would the collectors have the right to remove assets and stock that belong to my business which I am the director of?

 

I don't want this to seem as though I am avoiding paying the money, I have made attempts but as I mentioned the fines office don't want to hear unless it is on their terms, they are very adamant and very blunt to put it in the politest way possible.

 

This is why my main concern is the removal of assets and stock belonging to my business which would ruin everything I have built over the past months.

 

Any advice regarding this would be hugely appreciated.

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I really appreciate all of your advice and assistance with this. My probation officer has said the most likely option they would choose is to double the fine which makes no sense.

 

I am by no means an expert, but I would not expect the Fines Officer to take the enforcement STEP as suggested by your probation officer. In any event, there is no provision for the court to 'double' the fine. He can only increase it by 50%.

The Fines Officer can consider any one ....or more, of the following Further Steps:

Make an Attachment of Earnings Order....will not happen as you are not working.

 

Make an application for deductions from your benefits.....If applicable, this would have been set up following the hearing.

 

Issue a warrant of control (for the purpose of taking control of your goods). This will incur additional costs of up to £310.....the most usual STEP

 

Issue a warrant for your arrest to return to court.....As you are on probation......be careful.

 

Increase your fine by 50%......unlikely as the court know from your MC100 Means Statement that you would be unable to pay.

 

Issue a Clamping Order for the clamping, removal and sale of your vehicle.....not very often used.

 

Register your court fine in the Register of Judgements, Orders, and Fines (affecting your ability to obtain credit).....not very often used.

 

I cannot answer with any degree of certainty what an enforcement agent would take from your property if he gained entry. What I can be certain of, is that unless you enter into a payment arrangement within the strict timeframe outlined on the Notice of Enforcement, bailiff fees of £310 will be added to the fine. Such a payment arrangement is usually only for a period of 3-4 months and you would be required to make an 'upfront' payment.

 

There will be a lot to consider regarding goods within the property. For example, are the goods worth any money? Were they paid for by you...or by your Limited Company. I would assume that you have a computer? Is that your or was it paid by the Limited Company.

 

 

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I would personally suggest that you telephone the court and ask them whether you are still able to enter into a suitable payment arrangement with the court? If so, I would suggest that you make a payment arrangement that would clear the debt in the 6 month period previously advised to you.

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