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Worried to death

6 plus speeding offences by new camera system

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Hi,

I am worried to death.

 

Last Thursday 27 September 2018, I became aware that I had not one, but three Notices of Prosecution (NoP) against me for speeding in the same location.

 

They are all SP30s from consecutive days, i.e. 17, 18 and 19 September.

Naturally I was shocked and confused by this as I had not seen a camera flash or any police speed van in the area and wasn't aware I was doing anything wrong, just going about my normal everyday commute to the office in line with the regular traffic flow.

 

I went and looked for the camera on the road in question but couldn't see one. I was really confused by this.

 

I then received another two NoPs on Tuesday 2 October, this time for offences on 21 and 22 September. I was completely and utterly devastated by this.

 

The following day, I received yet another for the 22 September at a different time.

On this day (Saturday) I had been at work helping to run an event so I had been caught speeding both going and coming home too. This is now becoming a joke.

 

Not only that, because I only became aware on 27 September, I am likely to receive more NoPs for 24, 25 and 26 September so I am expecting more to come. I could have the potential for 12 NoPs against me.

 

I use a company vehicle, have zero points on my licence (which I pride myself on) and now face a total ban, and god knows how much in fines.

 

Having now looked into this more, I now realise that a new camera system has been installed on the road in question on a trial basis, apparently it was activated on the 10 September. It is an average speed system; two cameras high up on top of lampposts which I simply didn't see. There was no warning signs, but since then signs have now been put up.

 

There was plenty of warning in local newspapers and on the web but as I don't live in the local area, I live in a different county, I had no warning of these cameras hence the speed trap I've now been caught up in.

 

I am absolutely devastated by this and feel victimised.

 

I have got a solicitor involved but we have only spoken once and she's not filling me with much confidence.

 

I cannot afford to lose my licence. I live in a pretty remote area; no way of getting to work using public transport, I need the car to do my job, I won't be able to get to my aged parents who live 30 mins down the motorway, nor my sister who has MS and lives in Liverpool and I would also have to give up my voluntary work as I wouldn't be able to get there. I have no child dependents.

 

Obviously I have to take this ridiculous situation to court.

How can one person receive so many NoPs in this way?

How can this be justified?

Cameras are supposed to be a deterrent not a trap aren't they?

I feel I have had no fair warning to be aware and to alter my behaviour (which I am not denying by the way) but instead, I might as well have been convicted of murdering the same person six plus times.

How is that fair or even sensible?

It just doesn't make sense.

 

Has anyone ever heard of the like and what advice would you give me?

 

Any help or advice gratefully received as I'm desperately worried.

 

Thanks.

Edited by dx100uk
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So to be clear..for years?? You have though this road to be xxMPH when infact its acyaully lower at xxMPH?


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There will be posted maximum speed signs.

Keeping up with the "flow of traffic" would not be accepted as an excuse by the court unfortunately.

 

A new average speed check area was set up near me, on my daily commute, of 50mph.

It caught just over 6000 speeders.

 

In the local paper, it was reported that a few took the cases to court, where it was proved by the council that the trigger point was an average of 59 mph.

 

So unless you can prove that your car is not subject to the laws of physics then your only hope is the date of the signage was put up.

 

As long as its before the date that the speed trap trial started then you might get off.

But by the fact you said you saw a sign saying trial I think you've presumed its for data collection and not for prosecution.

Edited by dx100uk
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You feel "victimised" for breaking the law on 6 plus occasions? Have I missed something?

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You face a ban of 6 months under "totting up". The guidelines the court follow suggest a 6 month ban, but give leeway for "exceptional hardship".

 

 

Mind you, almost anyone who faces a ban would be caused hardship by that, so you need to focus on the exceptional reasons why a ban would affect you disproportionately.

Need a car for work? Many people do, take care not to speed if your work requires you to have a license.

 

Live in a rural area with poor public transport? Many people do : don't speed, or budget for more taxis.

 

 

 

I wouldn't try and say that your hardship is exceptional based on the fact you got caught, nor on the fact that you didn't see a sign saying "speed cameras" or "enforcement now active", nor "I didn't see any warnings".

The warnings are the road set-up (for the implied 30 limit), or the speed limit signs for higher limits. If the signage for a speed limit (above 30) wasn't such that the average driver would have been aware of it that might be a fruitful tack to follow, but saying (in effect) "I don't take notice of speed limits, only cameras I'm warned about" isn't likely to get you much sympathy .........

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I had a speed awareness course once - I didn't see a sign and hadn't noticed there was a drop in the speed limit from 60mph to 40mph. I couldn't protest because it was my responsibility to be aware of the notified limit and drive within it. Whilst on the course we were all asked 'why' we were speeding and one lady was in almost exactly the same situation as you. She said that she thought the camera wasn't working so the person running the course asked whether, when she went into shops she checked where the cameras were so that she could steal from the store. Naturally she was incredulous at this suggestion until it was pointed out that she had been doing almost the same as this when driving - checking where it was safe to break the law and where it was not

 

I think that there are very few options in your situation other than to get a very good solicitor who can mitigate on your behalf and to minimise any punishment


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I felt like I was being mugged last night at 3am obeying the M25 "smart" speed limit of 40mph.

5 empty lanes for miles and miles.

 

I could have safely set my bed for the night there, but some smart system told me to go at 40mph.

 

If I had gone at 45mph would I be considered similar to a thief willingly stealing from the supermarket?

The woman was talking with her backside.

I bet she didn't even have a driving licence.

Edited by dx100uk
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Thank you for your reply to my post.

 

I'm not sure what you mean though.

the signage was put up AFTER the speed trap started hence the reason I didn't know the cameras had been installed.

 

I know its no excuse and apparently I've been told that no signage is not a good enough defence either. I face a 6 month ban which will be hell but I'll just have to suck it up.

 

Only been driving that route since May this year. I thought it was a 40 zone.

 

Thank you for your reply and advice. I know I face a ban.

 

Your post is not helpful and bordering rude.

I am not denying that I was speeding.

It's how I feel given that I face a ban for not realising I was doing something wrong.

 

If I had been pulled by an officer the first time, I would have altered my behaviour, not gone back and committed the same offence another 5 times. This is my frustration with this particular system where no warning was given that it was there.

 

It is clearly designed to trap not educate and I happen to believe that education and engagement is a far better way of altering behaviour than entrapment.

Edited by dx100uk
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Your post is not helpful and bordering rude.

I am not denying that I was speeding.

 

Some context of who you are saying is unhelpful and bordering rude would be useful.

 

I’m hesitant to offer more advice, in case it is me you think is unhelpful.

Others might also feel similarly constrained from replying.

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Hi BazzaS, sorry it was mch1991's post that I found unhelpful. Not yours.

 

Thank you for your response.

 

Today I have received the first 'request for driver information' notification but only for the office committed on 19/09 not 17/09 or 18/09 or any of the others.

I guess the others will come?

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Surely you need to get yourself in front of the beak and get all of these taken into consideration together.

I remember a friend getting done multiple times- in the space of a fortnight- many years ago.

The magistrates gave him 10 points and a £240 fine + costs.

Now the fine will be quite a bit higher, but the principle remains the same.

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Thank you for your response. I can only hope that I am not banned from driving as this will be disastrous for me.

 

 

If this is crucial for you, you could consider taking on a specialist motor solicitor. You can find local ones through the Law Society website.

 

 

HB


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Hi BazzaS, sorry it was mch1991's post that I found unhelpful. Not yours.

 

Thank you for your response.

 

Today I have received the first 'request for driver information' notification but only for the office committed on 19/09 not 17/09 or 18/09 or any of the others.

I guess the others will come?

 

Unhelpful, however an opinion expressed on a public forum, especially considering you stated you "felt victimised" for being punished for breaking the law.

 

Exceptional hardship arguments only generally work where your absence from driving will cause others to suffer (I.e. If you had a family member that relied upon you to drive them to regular hospital appointments for a serious illness, or you are a carer for a relative), there are successful arguments I've seen against a totting up ban where a ban would see job loss plus the inability to make mortgage repayments (essentially leading to homelessness), although the whole point of a punishment is to cause you hardship, otherwise it wouldn't be a "punishment".

 

The Notice of Intended Prosecutions should, I believe, be served separately for each of the incidents you describe, and should be served within 14 days to the Registered Keeper, failing to do so means the police fall at the first hurdle and the matter generally cannot technically proceed to court.

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Also to add, it's not "entrapment" either, entrapment is when the police would coerce you into committing an offence you would unlikely or be unwilling to commit, the police didn't coerce you into speeding, it's not a trap either, generally road speed limits are posted, it's upto drivers as to whether they decide to drive above that limit, and there's an inherent risk that you'll be caught eventually.

 

Whilst I sympathise somewhat with what you're saying with regards to being pulled over would've changed your behaviour, unfortunately roads traffic policing has been cut horrendously, meaning static cameras become more common, especially in areas with higher KSI statistics.

 

Your punishment will be worse than the 5 points and several hundreds of pounds in fines I read about this week from a person who was found guilty of causing serious injury through careless driving (killing two horses in the process), the justice system in this country has it very wrong in my opinion.

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If this is crucial for you, you could consider taking on a specialist motor solicitor. You can find local ones through the Law Society website.

 

 

HB

 

Thank you for your reply HB. I will do that.

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Also to add, it's not "entrapment" either, entrapment is when the police would coerce you into committing an offence you would unlikely or be unwilling to commit, the police didn't coerce you into speeding, it's not a trap either, generally road speed limits are posted, it's upto drivers as to whether they decide to drive above that limit, and there's an inherent risk that you'll be caught eventually.

 

Whilst I sympathise somewhat with what you're saying with regards to being pulled over would've changed your behaviour, unfortunately roads traffic policing has been cut horrendously, meaning static cameras become more common, especially in areas with higher KSI statistics.

 

Your punishment will be worse than the 5 points and several hundreds of pounds in fines I read about this week from a person who was found guilty of causing serious injury through careless driving (killing two horses in the process), the justice system in this country has it very wrong in my opinion.

 

Thank you for both of your responses. 5 points and a fine for killing two horses? Wow. And yet I face a ban? I agree, that doesn't seem fair at all to me. A person I know was recently charged with drink driving. He got 9 points and a £1300 fine. No ban. Again, I face a ban. This just seems so unfair despite the fact I'm not denying it.

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If this is enforcement of a new speed limit what was the speed limit before the change and were your events all under that limit? you might get a bit of mitigation esp if you can show that the new signs about the speed limit are not clearly visible.

 

Rural or urban area?

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Thank you for both of your responses. 5 points and a fine for killing two horses? Wow. And yet I face a ban? I agree, that doesn't seem fair at all to me. A person I know was recently charged with drink driving. He got 9 points and a £1300 fine. No ban. Again, I face a ban. This just seems so unfair despite the fact I'm not denying it.

 

 

What would your punishment be if you had been caught once? Not five points. What would the punishment be if it had been 3 incidents of killing two horses?

 

It is what it is, you can carry on being angry if you want but it will still be the same.

 

I'm a Paramedic Rapid Responder with an unblemished driving record until I was caught doing 36 in a 30 when I got 3 points, because I was doing 36 in a 30.

 

As my 12 year old daughter said to me at the time "suck it up, Buttercup"

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What would your punishment be if you had been caught once? Not five points. What would the punishment be if it had been 3 incidents of killing two horses?

 

It is what it is, you can carry on being angry if you want but it will still be the same.

 

I'm a Paramedic Rapid Responder with an unblemished driving record until I was caught doing 36 in a 30 when I got 3 points, because I was doing 36 in a 30.

 

As my 12 year old daughter said to me at the time "suck it up, Buttercup"

 

 

 

 

 

You presume you know how I feel. I'm not angry and it matters not to me what you do for a living. I happen to disagree with the inconsistency surrounding the issuing of points, fines and bans under certain circumstances. Like I've said, I'm not denying my behaviour but I did not wake up one day and decide I'm going to risk my life and potentially that of others in a speeding frenzy.

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If this is enforcement of a new speed limit what was the speed limit before the change and were your events all under that limit? you might get a bit of mitigation esp if you can show that the new signs about the speed limit are not clearly visible.

 

Rural or urban area?

 

I don't know what the limit was as there was no signage before so I don't think they have changed the limit but I will check. It is largely a rural road and a long one and there are speed limits on it ranging from 30-40-50-national speed limit. I can only assume that the speed limit in this part of it where there are some houses, was 30 and still is. Thanks for your post.

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