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premier parking PCN claimform - Crossways Car Park in Paignton **WON**

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PREMIERE PARKING SOLUTIONS WANT TO TAKE ME TO COURT EVEN THOUGH I HAVE PAID IN FULL

 

On the 14th July 2016 I parked in the Crossways Car Park in Paignton whilst on holiday. I parked in a disabled bay displaying the Blue Badge,

I paid 1.60 for 2 hours parking and displayed the ticked in the right hand drivers side of dashboard.

 

I parked correctly, inside the lines, I left the car park 20+ mins before ticket expiry.

My crime was I transposed 2 letters of the number plate.

 

When we returned home I had a letter saying I had to pay a charge of 100.00 reduced to 60.00 if paid within 14 days.

 

I disputed this as I still had the parking ticket, duly photocopied and apologised for the error in recording my number plate.

 

Other factor are, we had only had the car a few months because my husband had a stroke and we had only just picked up this new mobility car. mon

 

I obviously, but not intentionally, transposed the number.

I am also disabled and I do have a memory problem but was the driver I had no idea I had transposed the reg no until they pointed it out.

 

I wrote identified myself as the driver, apologised for a genuine error and enclosed a copy of the ticket.

 

Now 3 years later they have issued court proceedings.

I went to the age concern and showed them all the countless chasing letters and among them are the 'Conditions of Parking' Warning Contractual Agreement notice.

 

1-12. Not one of these rules mentions having to put your car registration number in - let alone in the right order!

 

The Age Concern solicitor said Contract does not state reg number has to go in or be correct and discrimination under the Equality Act 2010 because I have a recognised medical problem ie memory.

 

She said do not contact them and let them do their worst.

Well the worst has happened as today 18/09 I have received court proceedings in the post. All very, very distressing.

 

The debt I have to pay now is 258.67

can they do this?

 

It really does seem extortionate for a 1.60 parking ticket that I paid for in full.

 

PREMIERE PARKING SOLUTIONS WANT TO TAKE ME TO COURT

 

I should add that they have engaged bwlegal to fight this massive ticket charge!

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From what I can gather looking at their letter it does not mention GDPR article14 or any other article. It just says they (bwlegal) have been instructed by PPS Ltd

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It wont, it predates that law so it wont apply.

From what I can gather looking at their letter it does not mention GDPR article14 or any other article. It just says they (bwlegal) have been instructed by PPS Ltd

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Now, what paperwork do you have regarding the original demand?

 

 

Is the car park near to where to anyone you know lives and if so can you get us soem photographs of the signage there and the parking meter with any blurb on it clearly readable.

 

 

forget all of the points you raise as mitigation regarding new cars,strokes, memory problems etc, it doenst alter the contract. what is important is what evidence you have that you paid the prescribed fee and ideally soemthing tat says they accepted your earlier submissions

Edited by honeybee13
Paras

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Hi,

 

Many thanks for your contact….I do need help!

 

The first communication I got from PPL was l fine for £60.00 stating I had not paid for my car parking.

 

In this same letter they said If I paid £18.00 within 14 days that would be the end of it.

Also if I wanted to appeal they enclosed a POPLA independent company.

 

I wrote back immediately to say that I had paid £1.60 for the 2 hour stay, although left 24 mins before my time was up, luckily for me I had not cleaned the car out and found the park ticket clearly showing my details and time, amount.

I enclosed a copy.

 

They replied saying I had not recorded my reg No correctly so my car was not legally parked.

I could not believe that....so I appealed to the POPLA company.

However, because the 14 days were up my fine was now £60.00....

further the POPL agreed with PPL saying that I had agreed that I had broken the PPL rules of parking so I now must pay the £60.00 so began 3 years of harassment.

 

I originally had a Solicitors letter called Wright Hassle Solicitors (I can hear you laughing)

The actually sent me half a tree of all the signs in the car park....NOT ONE said I had to enter my car reg...correctly or otherwise.

 

Also the sent a photocopy of their 'Conditions of Parking: Warning Contractual Agreement' signage that is displayed in their car park.

On this signage there are 12 conditions, making up the contractual agreement.

Not one of the 1-12 even mentions reg numbers at all.

 

I wrote back to Wright Hassle and gave them my story and from then til now I have not hear from them....about 2 years ago.

 

I continued to get chasing letters from PPL but then the fine went up to £100.00 and a firm called bwlegal wrote to me.

I telephoned them to tell my story and got a very rude man over talking me and stating that if I didn't pay they would take me to court.

I replied you do that and don't call me again, I will wait for the court papers.

 

bwlegal have harassed me EVERY 48 hours for months and month.

Testing me emailing me and tel me til in the end I blocked their number only to find they rang on a different number so I blocked that too.

 

Yesterday I received papers from the Northampton business centre with a claim for £258 and would you believe I received a tel call tonight from another bwlegal person telling me they had instructed court proceedings and how am I going to approach this and do I want to pay MY ACCOUNT OFF now.

 

I also received in the post today a copy of the breakdown of my charges which differ from the court papers, although total the same amount for instance on the court papers the solicitors cost is £50.00 but in belegal's letter it states £110.00

 

I have submitted the defence back to the court online yesterday so now I guess I just wait to be told what I have to do next.

 

The reason I mention the new car is because I do have a medically proven memory problem.

I was driving my husbands NEW mobility car which we had only had about 6-8 weeks and this is probably why I entered the reg number with 2 letters transposed.

 

I cannot believe that with all the paperwork I have showing no request to enter the reg number etc I am now being punished for a genuine momentary lapse in concentration.

 

These costs have escalated because they have allowed 3 years to goby without dealing with this matter in a sensible way because obviously, surely you cannot be dragged into court because a an unintentional mistake...

 

and it makes no difference the PPL I parked the car correctly, paid the right amount displayed the ticket and blue badge as I was in a disable bay and left 24mins before my time was up. This is nothing more than bully boy, legalised extortion.

 

So now I wait....bit nervous of going into a court at the age of 64 but I cannot see any option as I am not going to pay

 

Sorry to go on but really upset about this.

Reading your earlier posts.

No I did not give my permission for PPL to give out my personal details to anyone and did quote the GDPR 14 in the court defence papers.

And yes looking back at papers you are correct they do not call it a fine but a debt.

 

I also saw a solicitor from Age Concern and she was the one that pointed out to me that their rules of parking do not mention reg number - or indeed what will happen if you don't put it in correctly. She also said I could quote the Discrimination Under Equality Act 2010.

I have to wear splints on my hands.

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ok flourance can we get things moving and concerntrate on what you need to do.

 

1st its NOT A FINE.

if you look carefully at all the paperwork for anyone..nowhere do they use that word.

only the police/council can FINE you for parking

these are speculatine invoices..that you supposedly entered into some mythical contract by entering the land to park.

 

2nd...STOP and NEVER EVER..ring anyone or answer the phone and talk to anyone regarding these speculative invoices.

 

3rd never ever appeal without coming here or one of the other forums first as no doubt you identified yourseld as the driver now, and that limits the way you can defend abainst these invoices.

 

Lastly..the good bit..you paid..you have proof you paid..the fact that their ANPR system is not up to match a clerical error by you to their ANPR log/time is your saving gracr here..and will no doubt win this case for you.

 

now you need to do certain things.

we ideally as ive asked several times need you to complete an infomation post so we have all the CORRECT info to assist you.

 

if you click this link

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465231-Received-a-Court-Claim-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***Updated-Aug-2016***(1-Viewing)-nbsp

 

it asks a series of questions...we NEED THESE ANSWERED PLEASE.

 

can you copy and paste ..what are you using a PC to view CAG posts?

 

lastly incase you cannot manage that simple task

you need to do these things:

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.

.

register as an individual

note the long gateway number given

then log in

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

. get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim)

.

type your name ONLY

 

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.


..

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Florence, when you get time, have a read of the other threads on the forum where the OP inputted a "wrong" registration number.

 

You'll see theirs/yours are some of the simpler cases.

 

You paid your money. The PPC made no loss.

 

Legally you're right. And they're wrong.

 

As long as you prepare your defence properly, it's likely Premier Parking/Wright Hassle will dirty their underpants and withdraw the case.

 

If they really are so stupid as to continue to court, they will get a right kicking from the judge (and you!)

 

They are simply trying to scare you, even though they know they haven't got a legal leg to stand on. Disgusting I know, but that's how these conmen operate.

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As said,

there is plenty of case precedent on this so I reiterate that paying the money for parking knocks their claim on the head.

 

If you do have an image of the signage or even a contemporaneous list of the conditions then they are stuffed if there is no specific mention of inputting the reg correctly

 

these parking co's use really cheap systems that are desgned to NOT inform the motorist that the ANPR hasnt detected a car with that reg and to try again because they want to screw you for the £100 charge, not collect £1.60 for someone else and 20p for themselves.

 

Can you give us more detail on the place so we can googlesneakyview the place and be sure we have got the right car park.

 

Now I have found a number of small signs on the building next to the ramp into the car park and none of them seem to relate to anything offered by Premier as mentioned by you.

 

Have a look on Streetview, do a screen grab and keep these images as they will help you counter their argument about the offering of a contract and its terms by showing there is confusion and doubt in what they say.

 

For example one sign says no parking and the one next to it says permit holders only so they cant both be right. ( they are in fact both wrong but that is for later).

 

There is a very good chance they will drop the claim later on down the line because

(1) they know they are likely to lose for several reasons and

(2) this is about coercion, not about a genuine claim so if you dont cough up they will bale out to stop their losses and chase some other poor sod.

 

there are a number of reviews on Tripadvisor, if you havent left a bad one do so but please dont call it a fine, it isnt, say unjustifiable demand instead

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Name of the Claimant ? PREMIER PARKING SOLUTIONS LIMITED

claimants Solicitors: BW LEGAL ENTERPRISE HOUSE1APEX VIEWLEEDS LS11 9BH SOLS?? ADDRESS FOR SENDING PAPERS AND PAYMENTS

 

Date of issue – 14/09/2018

 

What is the claim for –

 

1. THE CLAIMANTS CLAIM IS FOR THE SUM OF 100.00 BEING MONIES DUE FROM THE DEFENDANT TO THE CLAIMANT IN RESPECT OF A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE (PCN) ISSUED ON 14/07/2015 (ISSUE DATE) AT 18:02:55 AT CROSSWAYS PAIGNTON

 

2.THE PCN RELATES TO A...UNDER REGISTRATION .... THE TERMS OF THE PCN ALLOWED THE DEFENDANT 28 DAYS FROM THE ISSUE DATE TO PAY THE PCN, BUT THE DEFENDANT FAILED TO DO SO.

3. DESPITE DEMAND HAVING BEEN MADE, THE DEFENDANT HAS FAILED TO SETTLE THEIR OUTSTANDING LIABILITY.

 

THE CLAIM ALSO INCLUDES STATUTORY INTEREST PURSUANT TO SECTION 69 OF THE COUNTY COURTS ACT 1984 AT THE RATE OF 8% PER ANNUM A DAILEY RATE OF 0.02 FROM14/07/2015 TO13/09/2018 BEING AN AMOUNT OF 23.16.

THE CLAIMANT ALSO CLAIMS 60.00 CONTRACTUAL COSTS PURSUANT TO PCN TERMS AND CONDITIONS

 

What is the value of the claim? 258.16

 

Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company or was the PCN assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ? PPS LTD

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? NO....(AND NOT PERVIOUSLY WHEN IT WAS WRIGHT HASSLE CHASING ME)

 

I hope I have answered your questions properly and in full so you can advise me.

 

Thank you

Edited by dx100uk
format reg/car make

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OP= original poster

the person who started the thread.

 

From what I read PPS are suing you and their solicitor is BW Legal.

they are the world's second worst solicitors so you have an advantage already,

their claim and their consequent behaviour will be poor so if you get your bit right you will almost certainly not have to actually attend as they will soon see they have screwed it up again.

 

We must get to that stage though so dont you get it wrong.

Have you acknowledged the claim?

 

If not do so, no need to enter a defence,

you will buy another fortnight by just ticking the box saying you intend to defend in full.

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well done

 

thread tidied for you

 

you now need to do these things:

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform

.

register as an individual

note the long gateway number given

then log in

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

. get a CPR 3114 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim .

 

type your name ONLY

 

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defenceicon regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.


..

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Thank you. I have done all you have advised with the exception of the CPR 31.14 which I am about to look into now.

 

 

I will keep you posted with their responses

 

Joy

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don't wait Florence for a response from them...

 

you MUST file a defence by Tuesday 16th October

whatever happens

that's easy too


..

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What???? You said in your last message that I MUST enter a defence ……..the court paper I entered online asked me to state my case which I did…...is that wrong?

Do I have to file something else as well?

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can I just check you did AOS [acknowledge of service box] and selected defend all ..yes?

thats all you did

 

not sent some text of why you don't owe or whatever.

 

in otherwords you didn't actually state a defence like in a word document or letter explaining things

you simply ticked defend all box?


..

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It asks you on the form to say why you are defending the claim.

And I thought that I had to put in the defence on that submission.

 

Honestly I thought that is what I was supposed to do.

I can type you on here the defence I input.

It was not a letter or separate piece of paper -just in the box provided.

I did mention in that GDPR 14.

 

To be honest, you have seen how difficult it has been for me to navigate around this site with my limited knowledge of this sort of thing and I had to answer the court claim online.

 

This was also before I worked out how to answer your questions...…

chicken and egg springs to mind??

 

Have messed it all up now?

I seriously appreciate your help and advice but it looks like I have miss interpreted your message about submitting the defence

 

And yes selected AOS and defend all

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GDPR 14?

whats that all about..

 

so just to be clear...

you did AOS DEFEND ALL

 

and then you went elsewhere on the website and typed something in...

 

yes please type it out here..


..

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GDPR article 14 is what cagger ericsbrother Royalties Account Holder?? mentioned further up this thread. I have not seen it but its about obtaining permission from me for PPSL to pass my details on to a collection agency/other.

 

 

I will type out the response tomorrow on here

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I said it wasnt the law at the time so didnt apply. I was merely pointing out your thoughts on it were wrong

 

Anyways, it is still legal to pass on details of a debtor to another person engaged in debt collection activity. The thing about these dodgy dca's is they add money to the debt for themselves and that has nevr been legal. the parking co's favourire debt collectors arent licenced so if you do pay them and they fail to pass the money on to the arking co you still owe them the money.

 

 

We try to give clear advice and that menas you have to read what is said in this matter very carefully. For example, the parking co will ahve never used the word fine but in reading their demand you made an assumption that isnt correct.

 

 

 

Likewise, before you posted your defence you were advised to just acknowledge at thsi time and then prepare a defence that must be submitted in time. Ths is not the same as submitting a defence at the same time as the AOS. We advise waiting because that also gove you time to demand sight of certain documents the claimant will rely on in their claims and they habitually fail to supply these. You normally have time to mention this in your defence so forcing them to at least supply them later on or lose because they davent shown a cause for action without them.

Edited by honeybee13
p

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Thankyou for clarity.

 

Unfortunately, although this is a brilliant site and has indeed helped me so much already, I am not able to be logged on all the time and with the time delays from one persons advice to the other I did what I thought was what I was being advised to do.

 

This site also assumes knowledge and I think all can see that it has not and is not easy for me to navigate around the site.

 

Hopefully I have not messed anything up for myself.

I have merely stated the true facts and the bottom line is I am being put into court for 258.00 for transposing a car registration number of a car that was not mine and had only been driving for a few weeks.

 

I have photographs of the Rules 1-12 of Parking and that does not mention entering a reg number at all.

 

I did pay and I do not feel any of this is fair just rather legalised extortion. I do still have the original paid ticket so cannot see how any decent judge would rule against me. I have not defrauded the company in any way.

 

I do value your opinion and advice.

It is rather how I have interpreted it that leads me to this point, rightly or wrongly this is where I am now and hopefully by stating the truth and having the evidence to confirm it I will be vindicated.

Edited by dx100uk
Spacing

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Lets put it this way

You paid..end of.

 

We've not seen a wrong reg case lost


..

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you are right about your assertions but judges want evidence to support your side of the story and part of that is using other similar cases so you can show either a compelling argument (case law) you are right or a persuasive case (good example that makes hteir job easier and allows them to apply consistency across the system.

 

So, we can help you on both bits so post up your images of the signage and we will suggest what else you will need.

Pictures of the entrance to the car park from the public highway are always a must,

if you cant see a sign from the drivers position offering you a contrcat then it is likely that any contract offered by the signage wont exist due to the insufficiency of the signs, their position, content etc.

 

Also, where a payment meter is involved the actual contract is any terms offerd on the machine so if that says nothing about entering the right reg or being clobbered for not knowing you are supposed to know thenby feeding ther meter you accept those terms rather than anything said on the signs.

 

This last point is also useful if there is an argument about whether the sign is an "invitation to treat" or a contract.

 

I will give a commonly used example.

A shop has a sign outside saying "50% off most items" and you go in, look around and choose a pair of trousers to try on.

You ask the price and are told that they are not in the sale and you dont buy them.

 

Now the sign is inviting you to consider something, it doesnt force you to buy the trousers and it doesnt force the shopkeeper to sell them for half price. It is simply an invite to get you to consider the offer and agree terms if you want something.

 

Now in the case of parking, as the parking co doesnt own the land they have no right to demand you dont enter, you have been invited there to consider terms. If you dont like them then no contract is formed and at worst you are a trespasser and that is nothing to do with the parking co.

 

The parking co now wishing to impose the terms you have rejected or not considered (didnt read the sign m'lud) is like the shopkeeper insisting that you now buy the trousers because you looked at them or pay him for his costs for heat and light etc.

 

Both are equally silly and unenforceable but with the parking co you will have to argue the point because they have sued you whereas the shopkeeper has better ways of making money, namely selling stuff rather than chiselling money out of non customers.

 

the business model of the paring co's is based entirely around abuse of the law rather than parking management.

Edited by dx100uk
spacing

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Anyways, it is still legal to pass on details of a debtor to another person engaged in debt collection activity.

 

DX, same as a PPC invoice is not a fine, the requesting of a RK details without legitimate reasons is not lawful. Legitimate is not as the ppcs would like in that they have legitimate reason to manage and control parking at a site, legitimate is as defined by the EU data protection body and the CJEU in that it must be lawful and fully comply with all the member states laws, etc. In case of PPCs, to be compliant with GDPR, PoFA, CRA, etc I have yet to see one and they are all non GDPR compliant and thus any processing of a RK data is not transparent or lawful.

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