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No Insurance and car seized


tigeress289
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I was stopped in a random police check point on a Saturday on my way back from the cash and carry locally to where I live.

 

I was driving my brothers vehicle as mine was being repaired.

We both have fully comp insurance and both are covered to drive other vehicles with owners consent.

 

The officer that stopped me asked where I was coming from and going to,

I replied from the cash and carry and on the way home.

 

I was asked for my Insurance and I explained that the vehicle was my brothers.

The officer went to his car and returned saying I was uninsured and he would be seizing the vehicle.

 

I explained I had Insurance on my own vehicle and gave him the registration.

He went back to his car and returned saying I was not insured and he would be seizing the vehicle, which he did.

 

I made my way home with my wife and the contents of the vehicle by mini cab.

I then contacted my brother to explain what had happened and he went to the compound with his insurance and paid and retrieved his vehicle the same day.

 

I was give a seizure proforma form by the officer and when I got home and tried to read it, I realised that it was unreadable and could not make out a single word on it.

I have now received a conditional offer of fixed penalty but I will not pay it as I was insured.

 

Being the first time I have been stopped and treated in this way,

I am finding it hard to see why both Insurances came back as not insured

 

. I think the officer inferred I was a business but could not check the proforma form when I got home as I have already stated it was unreadable. There is also nothing on the conditional offer form other than that I used a motor vehicle on a road/public place without third party insurance. Contrary to section 143 of the RTA 1988 and schedule 2 to the RTOA 1988.

 

Having spoken to my insurance company they say I am insured by third party cover.

I have told friends about this and amazed how many have said they have had similar experiences with the police as if it is the new thing to raise fines and endorsement's.

 

One funny point is that adding business use to your cover is sometimes cheaper even if you don't have a business, it just stops this kind of police targeting to stop.

 

My question is how to fight this,

do I write to the processing services or can I write directly to the CPS.

I have 21 days left in which to either accept a £300 fine and 6 points or defend myself.

 

Any help/advice grateful.

Edited by dx100uk
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Send the insurance details to the relevant dpt and that should be the end of it.

If they want to take you to court (unlikely) the judge would whip the officer, the cps and everyone else involved in his own courtroom.

Your brother needs to put a claim through to recover the release fee as he was insured.

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I use a cash and carry and I don't have any business.

Some organisations have agreements with cash and carry to let their employees have a card and shop in there.

Doesn't mean you run a business.

I buy in bulk because it's cheaper, especially cleaning products which last me a year or so.

Business insurance is required only if driving for business purposes, not to buy your own goods that you're gonna use yourself.

By no stretch of the imagination that can be considered a business.

Said that, was the op shopping for his business?

If so then business insurance is required.

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No, I am a Builder but sometimes use a cash and carry near us which is open to the public with no membership.

 

We sometimes buy bulky items and split between us. I assume the officer had made his mind up straight away after I said I was coming from a cash and carry.

 

Some friends seem to imply that they think the officer was prejudice as I am British Indian buying from a cash and carry.

I don't want to think that way as this was an insurance issue for which both cars were insured.

I have even thought about the business side but legally I am still covered by third party cover which section 143 refers to.

 

As someone who has never committed a motoring offence and had insurance all my driving life, I cannot believe that it has come to the point where officers are looking for clauses in an insurance which we pay heavily for and then treat us like criminals.

 

I really don't care if I owned Tesco's, I was insured.

It come's to something when a driver cannot use a cash and carry as the police will think we are all shopkeepers.

 

Great site and keep up fighting for peoples rights,

Thank You

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Cash and carry open to the public without membership and you're not in business of selling goods.

You are therefore insured fully.

Time to write to them and get this sorted.

Consider that Costco is a cash and carry where you need a membership card to even enter the store and membership is offer to police officers and soldiers.

Do they need business insurance to go there?

Of course not.

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Thank you all for replies as I was starting to feel that we are getting more powerless day by day.

 

I tried 2 well known motor insurance solicitors, one said pay the other said £700+ to write letter but only £200+ if they have to go court.

 

To be honest the second gave me confidence as the initial fee was far higher which implied to me I had a fighting chance.

 

I will send the letter and documents tomorrow and keep you posted what happens.

 

 

 

Again Thank you

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Don't need a solicitor to write a letter.

Just state that you were fully insured at time of being stopped and send evidence to this effect.

Highlight the fact that you don't shop for business at the cash and carry and the store is open to the public without membership.

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Just get a letter from Insurers that the vehicle was Insured for road traffic act cover at the time under driving other cars extension.

 

Send the letter to the Police station that the officers are from and it should be dealt with. The Police will then tell you which office to contact to reclaim any costs incurred.

 

Always a risk to drive under the driving other cars extension, as it is really emergency cover, to provide cover for the odd occasion, where you cannot be added as a named driver on the policy the vehicle is covered under. E.g. Insurers office is closed. The driving other cars extension was never meant to be used by people to regularly drive other vehicles.

We could do with some help from you.

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Just get the Insurers confirmation in writing that at the time you were stopped you had Insurance.

 

Driving other cars extension cover is not as straightforward as some people think.

The Police deal with this on a regular basis and they will have discussed this with the Insurers.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just a quick update.

Received letter back stating I was not insured as being used for business.

 

I have been given an extra 14 days to reply but I see this going to court.

I am going to reply and ask to see footage of any body camera worn as I can get a bit short when dealing with the police as I have no trust in them or common sense.

 

Will keep you informed.

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Just a quick update. Received letter back stating I was not insured as being used for business. I have been given an extra 14 days to reply but I see this going to court. I am going to reply and ask to see footage of any body camera worn as I can get a bit short when dealing with the police as I have no trust in them or common sense.

 

Will keep you informed.

 

Interesting. If you assert that you were using the vehicle for non business matters, then it would be for the police to prove beyond any reasonable doubt this fact in court, do you have receipts? Surely a non business transaction would be a few items rather than a large stock purchase?

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Just a quick update. Received letter back stating I was not insured as being used for business. I have been given an extra 14 days to reply but I see this going to court. I am going to reply and ask to see footage of any body camera worn as I can get a bit short when dealing with the police as I have no trust in them or common sense.

 

Will keep you informed.

 

You can ask for the footage but can’t insist on it unless / until the matter is going to trial.

 

How will the body camera footage help you?

 

 

If you think it will show you being “a bit short” with them it may incline the bench against you!

 

If you think it will show you saying “of course I’m insured officer, as I’m not using the vehicle for business purposes, these goods all being my personal belongings!” : then it might help ......

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Every now and then we like to do a big shop for bulky items like toilet rolls and kitchen roll, it was summer so bottled water and diet coke cans as the boys drink quite a lot. Everything fitted into the back of the mini cab we had to take home.

 

I have had far bigger shops in Sainsburys and Morrisons.

I have no problem going court but would like to see what was said as the officer assumed without asking which cash and carry or looking at receipt. I just felt I was being picked on and he was looking for something to do me with.

 

This has got worse since then as I am finding the people who are legal and abide by our laws are being targeted for the slightest infringement.

 

I just paid a £65 fine for having the rear of my car in a yellow box junction on green lanes junction with St Anne's road for 13 seconds.

 

I never knew it was there until I double checked.

So if I am in the wrong I admit it.

This abuse of power in making me defend myself in a court that is bias towards police is wrong.

 

One other question please, if found guilty , can I appeal and how far can I go.

 

Thank you all for time and help.

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I have no problem going court but would like to see what was said as the officer assumed without asking which cash and carry or looking at receipt. I just felt I was being picked on and he was looking for something to do me with.

 

.....

 

This abuse of power in making me defend myself in a court that is bias towards police is wrong.

 

One other question please, if found guilty , can I appeal and how far can I go. Thank you all for time and help.

 

You must have an idea of what was said : you were there.

 

The court won’t be interested (at least initially) on if you might have felt you were being picked on. If the police pass a file to the CPS, the CPS prosecute, and it goes to court, the Magistrates will seek an answer to “is the defendant guilty of the offence charged?”.

They might later (considering mitigation rather than defence) consider if you were “picked on”, but when were you “picked on”?

 

If the initial facts suggested you weren’t insured, then you’ll find it hard to show the officer wasn’t acting within the law for the initial stop (if others were also being randomly stopped), and then all the officer need do is explain why they had reasonable belief you were driving in the course of business as to why they felt you were uninsured.

 

Then the court can decide.

Since it hasn’t gone to court, how come you already believe the court is biased?

 

Of course you can appeal. You can appeal judgement, sentence, or both. It would be to the Crown Court and expensive.

What are your grounds of appeal? If you don’t yet know, why not

a) see what the evidence against you is, by going to court

b) see what the court finds, and

c) take legal advice : if not before Court, certainly after if considering a Crown Court appeal. Legal advice before court might also be “take the FPN offer”, but it is then up to you if you want your “day in court, on principle”. Principles can be expensive, though .....

 

How far might you appeal it?

On the basis of ‘case stated’ or ‘point of law’ : to the Crown Court

 

After that, any appeal must be on the basis of ‘point of law’ : and all the way to the Supreme Court if you get permission from the lower court and / or the higher court decides there is a point of law to be decided.

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