Jump to content

 

BankFodder BankFodder


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • The companies you tried to arrange supplies with, should have told you there was a problem registering account for new address. If they could not contact you by phone, they should have written to you.   Had they done this, then this would have been resolved.    Don't bother complaining to Marston's. It is the energy companies that should have done more. 
    • I'm not sure what the form is – would your new suppliers normally have contacted the old supplier to say that there was a change? If you could show that spark should have known that they were no longer dealing with the account holder at the time that they apply for the warrant, then it seems to me that they do bear some culpability. By the way one of the site team mentioned that at some point Marston would contact me. I'm afraid that's not the way it works. I've now referred the matter to Marston and they may well decide to contact you – the Original Poster for more information or simply to inform you that in the circumstances that there is nothing that they are able to do. I'm afraid it's out of my hands and I never asked for or ever receive any feedback about the references I make to them at this level
    • I've forwarded the details of this to Marston – but I'm not sure that there is much that can be done in the circumstances. If the energy company had been informed – or if they had reason to know that their customer was no longer at the address then of course obtaining the warrant was outrageous. As it is, it would seem that the previous tenant hadn't informed them and had simply done a runner – and unfortunately you have taken no action to return any mail to the sender so as far as I gather, there is no reason for the energy company to have known what has happened. Please note that I haven't really looked through this thread very carefully since I originally posted so are not au fait/can't remember all of the details – but that is my sketchy understanding. If this is the case then, although of course something needs to be sorted out – I have to say that it would have been helpful if you had either opened the mail or returned it. I know that you say that you have never had to do this in the past – but maybe it would be good practice in the future. It could be that in the past you have simply been lucky. You are talking about clearing the balance of some outstanding debt which belongs to somebody else? This seems to be extraordinary to me – but then I'm afraid I haven't been following the thread very closely  
    • So here is where things stand at the moment (sorry it's a very long post!):   I moved into this property in November.  I contacted both my electric and gas suppliers to change address and get my accounts moved over.   Electric - I closed my old account from my previous address, opened a new account for this address, set up a direct debit and requested they become the supplier.  The only thing that was outstanding on the account was a discussion about tariffs.  On 21st November they tried to call me but I didn't answer (judging from the time I was probably driving home from work).  I received a payment from them at the end of November from my previous account (which I clearly didn't check as I thought it was money going out for my direct debit).  I incorrectly assumed the call was about tariffs, which tbh, I'm not really fussed about. Their request to become the supplier was rejected but they didn't follow up on it or try to contact me again.  So I, like an idiot, thought it was all sorted out.  It's only now that I've been through my account that I realise they haven't been taking payments. I have spoken to them since Friday and the above is what they have told me has happened.   Gas - I closed my old account and have been trying to get a new account opened since November.  I have had several discussions with them re: the change request being rejected and they didn't know why it was being rejected but to leave it with them.  They told me at the beginning of this month it would be done by the 21st January.  During this phone call they said I could call the current supplier to make sure it goes smoothly but that it wasn't essential as they expected it to be completed by the 21st.  Last week they sent me a final demand for my previous address.  I contacted them to raise a complaint as I thought they were at fault, as I expected it to have been changed as per the above.   I spoke to them on Saturday and have sorted out my final bill and they have advised me to open accounts with the current supplier, Spark, clear them and then I can switch. Interestingly they also told me that Spark went bust in 2018 and it is a company called Ovo who are on the national database as the gas supplier.   Spark - This is the company who changed the meters on Friday.  I have two letters (one for gas, one for electric) that were left with the smart meter they had plugged in in the kitchen, both addressed to the previous tenant.  I obviously did open these on Friday.  Both letters state that they had changed the meters to prepayment meters.  There are several boxes that list current debt, amount of credit on meters etc none of which are filled in.  They also state that a booklet has been left explaining how the smart meter works.  There was no booklet. When I contacted them on Friday they told me that I was in fact on credit meters (I don't know if they changed this remotely when they realised I wasn't the person with the debt).  They also told me they had every right to enter the property and aren't able to check every time who the current occupant is and I should have told them I'd moved in.  I was told that someone would call me at 1pm on Saturday to discuss my complaint, thus far no one has called me.   I spoke with citizen's advice yesterday who really weren't much help tbh.  They said I should have contacted the current supplier when I moved in and provided a copy of my tenancy agreement.  I've moved A LOT over the years and have never had to do this.  I have checked several energy supplier websites and they all state to switch to them or move home simply to contact them and they will basically do the rest, not one of them states that you need to call the current supplier... obviously, on reflection I really wish I had!   My letting agent/landlord have requested that I take any post for the previous tenant to them and they will return it.  They also want confirmation of what type of meter (prepayment or credit) is now in the house.  The locks were changed when I moved in so only myself, the letting agent and the landlord have a key.  None of us let them in on Friday.     My next step is to open accounts with Spark/Ovo, clear the balances since November and then change suppliers.    All of the above have advised me to follow Spark's complaint procedure which I will do but as I said above they haven't contacted me so far re: the complaint I made on Friday.   Should I also contact Marston's to raise a complaint with them?   Whilst in all of this I do appreciate I could have done a fair bit to have made my life easier and probably prevented this happening (hindsight is wonderful!) my main complaint is that neither Spark nor Marston's felt they needed to perform a very simple check and see who actually lives in the property before breaking in.  I cannot for the life of me see how this is acceptable or legal.  Whilst they had the legal right and a warrant to enter the previous tenant's property as far as I am concerned they had no right to enter mine.    
  • Our picks

Leoricsson

Hine Hall management limited/PDC claimform - unpaid service charges..but i paid them!

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 449 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Hi to everyone, this is my first post here but I have been reading this forum for years and up till now have got most of what I needed by reading but this time I could do with a bit of help.

 

Hi and sorry if this is in the wrong thread, I tried to look where to place it but this seemed the closest I could find.

 

I own a freehold flat that was originally leasehold but I purchased the freehold several years ago. I pay a service charge to Warwick estates every 6 months

 

A few years back I moved to live with my partner but still kept the flat and because of this I ended up forgetting to pay the service charge of £665.32 + reserve fund of £53.67.

 

I was issued with a £90 admins fee and £72 claim fee.

This I also missed because I was absent from the property.

It was then sent to PDC and they slapped on an additional £180 referral fee.

eThis I also missed as it escalated quite quickly and they put on another £250 instruction fee.

 

At this point I did some reading on CAG and decided to pay Warwick estates directly via bank transfer which is my normal means of paying them. And paid everything apart from the £250 PDC instruction fee as I have no issue with paying my service charge and understand that by not doing so in time had incurred costs.

This was in April 2018.

 

I heard nothing and thought it done with until today I received a court claim of £2345 for the full amount including what I had already paid.

This now includes an extra £840 PDC law additional costs £115 court fees and £80 solicitors fees issuing claim forms.

 

I intend to challenge it and say I didn’t receive the last letter they sent me regarding the £250 PDC instruction fee and that I paid everything else to that date.

But I am getting worried now.

 

I hate these debt companies with their massively inflated costs and am seeking help with how I should proceed and whether I will be able to defend myself.

 

Regards

Leo

EB6FB903-6212-4D9B-AC2A-D5B96986F15A.jpeg

Edited by dx100uk
Spacing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what do the terms say about service charges and the addition of fees? When was the property built? the age may give an indicationas to whether any of the charges can be claimed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will get all the details together and fill in the questions sheet suggested to me. The property was build in 1860 but was converted to flats in 1990 with 999 year leases.. several years ago I purchased the freehold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no copy and paste that posts' text here and then insert [type] your answer after each question please


..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Name of the Claimant ?

 

Hine Hall management limited

 

Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to.

 

Date of issue: 29/08/2018

Date of issue + 19: 14/09/2018

Date of issue + 33: 28/09/2018

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? Please type out their particulars of claim in full (verbatim) less any identifiable data and round the amounts up/down.

 

Outstanding arrears of reserve fund and service charge.

value £2150.99

 

1. The claimant is the freeholder of the property known as ********* Hine Hall mapperley Nottingham. A copy of the leasehold title is attached as Annex A

 

2. The defendant is the holder of the leasehold interest in respect of the property.

 

3. The property is subject to a lease demand dated 12 December 1988 (the lease) made between (Sodexo ltd and (2) Patrick Ma Kwangju Liu for a term of 999 years from 24 June 1988. A copy of the lease is attached herein at Annex B.

 

4,the claimant is entitled to enforce the terms of the lease against the defendant and will rely on the lease for its full terms and effect at trial. The lease includes the following covenants:

 

‘Service charge’ by clauses 5(b)(i) and (ii) of the lease, the lessee hereby covenants with the lesser and with the owners and lessees of the other flats comprised in the building and leased by the lessor that the lessee will at all time hereafter: to contribute and pay 1.056% per an of the costs expenses outgoings and matters mentioned in the fifth schedule Herero, the contribution under paragraph (i) of this clause for each year shall be estimated by the lessor (whose decision shall be final) as soon as practicable after the beginning of each year of the term and the lessee shall pay the estimated contribution in two instalments in the first day of July and the first day of January in every year of the term.

 

‘Reserve fund’ by clause 12 of the fifth schedule of the lease any reserve funds shall be kept in separate accounts any interest s on or income of the said funds which shall (after deduction of tax) be added to the funds which shall be held by the lessor and shall only be applied in accordance with the terms of the schedule.

 

‘Costs’ by clause 3(d) of the lease, to pay all costs charges and expenses (including solicitors costs and aurveyors fees) incurred by the lessor for the purposes of or incidental to the preparation and service of a notice under section 146 of the law of property 1925 notwithstanding forfeiture may be avoided otherwise than by relief granted by the court.

 

Particulars of breach

5. The claimant instructed a managing agent. Warwick estates property management limited to manage the development on their behalf (‘the agent’). In accordance with the claimants obligations, the claimant via its agent issued demands for the reserve fund and service charge in the sum of £719.99

 

6. The defendant has breached the terms of the lease by failing to make payment to the claimant for the sums detailed in paragraph 5 above.

 

7. In an effort to limit its costs, the agent issued reminder letters to the defendant requesting they remedy their breach and make payment of the reserve fund and service charge.

 

8.. the defendant failed to respond and/or make payment on recipes of the reminder letters and the claimant instructed via the agent a debt collection company, property debt collection limited (‘the DCA’) to recover the outstanding sums.

 

9. The DCA issued further letters to the defendant requesting payment of the reserve fund and service charge together with administration fees of £592.00 incurred by the claimant for its instruction. The DCA has also put the defendant on notice that the claimant reserves its postition in respect of forfeiture of the lease. There is attached as Annex C a statement of the account detailing the sums claimed. 10. The claimant seeks to recover all administration fees incurred by both agent and the DCA from the defendant pursuant to the provisions contained within the lease. The claimant will rely on the costs provision detailed in paragraph 4, other provisions in the lease at trial and/or any other statutory right to recover administration fees and costs.

 

11. The claimant has complied with the pre-action protocol for debt claims. A copy of the letter of claim is attached as Annex D.

12. The claimant has further incurred costs of £840 and will continue to incur legal costs which are contractually payable under the costs provision.

 

Particulars

 

13. The claimant seeks a determination pursuant to section 81 of the housing act 1996 that:

A. The reserve fund and service charge of £718.99 is payable by the defendant; and

B. The administration fees of £592 are payable by the defendant; and

C the claimants costs incurred of £840 are payable by the defendant.

 

And the claimant claims

 

1. £718.99 in respect of reserve fund and service charge;

2. £592.00 In respect of administration fees;

3. £840 in respect of contractual costs.

4. A determination that paragraphs 1-3 are owed by the defendant to the claimant.

5. Contractual costs.

 

Dated 25 June 2018

 

Address for service PDC law

Unit 2a Centrus

Mead lane

Hertford

SG137GX

 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ?

 

What is the total value of the claim?

 

£2150.99

£2345.99 including court fee if £115 and legal representative cost of £80

 

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account?

 

No it is for service charges for a flat

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ?

 

I signed the agreement for the lease before April 2007. A few years ago a then purchased the freehold.

 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ?

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.

 

It is being issued via a DCA -property debt collection who are acting on behalf of Warwick estates who in turn are managing the property for Hine Hall management.

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

 

No notice of assignment was given. But a letter prior saying that if it wasn’t paid then it may be passed to a DCA.

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?

 

Yes

 

 

 

Why did you cease payments?

 

I wasn’t living at my flat and forgot to make the payment in time

 

What was the date of your last payment?

 

12 April 2018 £988.99

 

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?

 

I paid the original creditor £988.99 which includes all the service charge. Reserve fund all of the administration costs including £180 instruction fee but not the £250 PDC instruction fee

 

I just put the £988.99 into their account via bank transfer which is my method of payment to them for the last 18 years. I heard nothing from either the Warwick estates nor the DCA since before I paid the amount into their account 18 April and had considered it done with.

 

I omitted the £250 DCA charge that they simply added on top. Considering that I already paid them £180 for a simple letter far more than enough.

 

I haven’t been to my flat regularly at all since moving in with my partner and so haven’t ever signed for anything. I find this strange when costs get so astronomically high!

 

Thank you for your time in reading this. Please let me know if I have omitted anything.

 

Regards

 

Leo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have I completed the form suggested to me correctly? It seems very lengthy to have done it verbatim. Sorry for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have edited it slightly to points that are not applicable to this kind of claim......I have altered your dates above for acknowledgment of service and date of defence as they fell on a weekend......you must action them by friday on a weekend by 4.00pm if this claim was issued and is being defended through MCOL Northampton.

 

Regards

 

Andy


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One important point which you have responded to with a question mark......

 

" Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? "

Please read the following link....

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?481827-The-Pre-Action-Protocol-for-Debt-Claims-is-made-by-the-Master-of-the-Rolls-as-Head-of-Civil-Justice.-1st-Oct-2017


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thx Andy. In their notice of claim, they have attached a copy of a pre action protocol that they sent to me, yet I do not recall having recieved it.

 

Whilst not totally sure, I’m pretty sure I never had one.

They have it dated for 12th March.

I find this very strange as they had the debt referred to them by Hine hall on March 6th,

would they as newly appointed DCA really have had their first contact with me as a pre action protocol?

 

Also their PDC instruction fee of £250 isn’t dated and just says n/a. Is this normal?

Edited by dx100uk
spacing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pdc ?


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I note that they are banging on about a lease and how the terms of the leae give them rights to claim their expenses.

As you own the freehold then there is no lease so it will be covenants and other agreements that decide how you pay charges and expenses if any.

 

you need to dig out the documents even if it meand going to the soliciotr who drew up the property transfer and paying to get a copy. Other stuff will be available from the land registry for about a tenner all in

 

Did you actually buy a freehold or a longer lease that is a virtual freehold?

ground floor flats often have a freehold but a higher flat would be subject to a flying freehold and they can have wierd terms

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few years ago the freehold for the entire complex went up for sale and it was required that we as leaseholders be given first opportunity to purchase it between us.

 

I along with over 50% of the other owners of a lease purchased it between us and I now own the freehold for my flat and a portion of the grounds.

A guy in the complex organised it all via solicitors for all the leaseholders at the time.

 

I have to date received no certificate or documentation although the last time I saw him he said it was all with the solicitors and It was all sorted but he would write out some certificates when he gets time, The certificates won’t mean anything other than having a bit of paper.

I’m guessing the change of lease to freehold will be on the land registry and I will be trying there thank you for reminding me of this.

 

On another note, I contacted my original managing agent of the property and they received my payment and I do not owe them anything.

it seems they and the DCA have not communicated with each other prior to escalating the case to a court claim.

No doubt the DCA will claim they sent me multiple letters that they never actually sent.

Edited by dx100uk
spacing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sent my defence and have now received two letters.

Neither of which were sent to my current address where I live.

I updated the contact details on my defence form.

 

The first letter dated 19th September 2018 states it is now a defended case and have said the case is suitable for allocation to the small claims track. They have also given me form n180 to reply and send back to them by 17th October 2018. And file it with the court office.

 

The second letter dated 26th September 2018 has said I have not replied to the claim form and judgement is made to the full amount of £2368.

How can this happen??

I will try ringing the court money claims centre tomorrow but am concerned that this judgement will now stand unless I pay to apply to have it set aside as a cost of a few hundred pounds when it wasn’t my error.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we've seen this mistake before.

yes go ring them.

 

don't forget you need 3 copies of the N180

 

yes to mediation

1 wit you

rest is obv

 

1 to the court

1 to the sols

1 for your file.

 

so you used the paperform and return that

does this claim not have an MCOL password that you could use on that website?


..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for your swift reply. I will prepare the 3 copies of form n180 tomorrow and will go ahead and ring the court in the morning to try to find out what’s up.

The claim form does not have a MCOL password that I can see. Should I make a MCOL acc myself?

 

How did it go the last time this mistake had happened?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

was the claim from Salford court then not northants bulk?

 

the last time they simply realised they'd made an admin error..

not surprising with 750'000 claimform issued every year.


..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hopefully they will just realise they made an error with me as well and change judgement but considering how stressful these cases are you’d have thought they should deal with it correctly in the first place :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no because the system is not geared for these speculative claims to be defended

all the claimant has done here is issue a speculative claimform.

hoping for either a knee-jerk' reaction and a cough-up/admittance or it not being contested at all.

hence the term default rubberstamped judgement..no human ever checks anything in these cases

 

you've defended and made people do things they don't usually have to do, like produce/find evidence/paperwork and get the process right..or they lose.

 

ps did you send a CPR request?


..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Damnit no, I knew I’d forget something :( checked and double checked I’d done everything. It seems I needed to triple check :/ can I still ask for this or is it too late? Presumably the claimant will also have received 2 letters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well they'll have to disclose what they rely upon at the next stage - the disclosure stage.[witness statements}


..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Small update, rang the court today and the judgement letter was a mistake, it has been stricken off and there is no judgement as it stands. One worried ruined evening for nothing :/ but at least it’s solved :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...