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    • Should this to be take into court with him or should he send something in earlier?
    • This is the other sign  parking sign 1a.pdf
    • 4 means that they need to name and then tell the people who will be affected that there has been an application made, what the application relates to (specificially "whether it relates to the exercise of the court’s jurisdiction in relation to P’s property and affairs, or P’s personal welfare, or to both) and what this application contains (i.e what order they want made as a result of it) 5 just means that teh court think it is important that the relevant people are notified 7 means that the court need more information to make the application, hence they have then made the order of paragraph 1 which requires the applicant to do more - this means the court can't make a decision with the current information, and need more, hence paragraph one of the order is for the applicant to do more. paragraph 3 of the order gives you the ability to have it set aside, although if it was made in january you are very late. Were you notiifed of the application or not?    
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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
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Selling house at below market value


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I think selling someone a house at well below what it's worth could count as a gift for IHT purposes, but to add to my previous post, please tell us more.

 

 

ETA I've retitled your thread for clarity and moved it to the General Legal forum.

 

HB

Edited by honeybee13

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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It's your property, unless you sell it for a pound you won't have to worry.

Let's say the property is worth £300k and you sell it for £200k, I don't think anyone can stop you.

I bought a property many moons ago at half price the next door because it was a complete wreck.

Nobody questioned the transaction.

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I think selling someone a house at well below what it's worth could count as a gift for IHT purposes, but to add to my previous post, please tell us more.

 

HB

 

HB is correct. King might be correct dependant on why the transaction at an undervalue is happening.

 

It's your property, unless you sell it for a pound you won't have to worry.

Let's say the property is worth £300k and you sell it for £200k, I don't think anyone can stop you.

I bought a property many moons ago at half price the next door because it was a complete wreck.

Nobody questioned the transaction.

 

If the vendor and purchaser are connected, and the transaction is designed to avoid tax, it will be subject to scrutiny.

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As others have said if it's your house and there's no mortgage you can sell for whatever you like. HMRC can't tell you what price you can sell your house for but if they believe you have sold the house below market price they can treat the difference between market price and what you sold it for as gift for calculating Inheritance Tax. What's the reason for the question? How much below market price? What's the reason for wanting to sell below market price?

 

The "market value" isn't a precise number anyway until an (unconnected) buyer comes along and actually makes an offer. Until someone makes an offer "market value" is only what someone predicts a buyer will pay. So if you are only talking about a small difference between what you want to sell for and what someone (estate agent?) thinks is the market value then it's probably not significant.

 

I bought a property many moons ago at half price the next door because it was a complete wreck.

 

When you say 'half price', half the price of what? Of what it would have been worth in good condition? If it was a complete wreck maybe what you bought it for was a fair market price for house that was a wreck?

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Paid £130k instead of £250k the next door neighbour paid a week before me for identical house.

However, their property was all refurbished and mine just an empty shell without even hot water and heating.

It had been on the market for over a year and received no offers at advertised price of £200k.

I threw an offer at £125k thinking it would be rejected but after a short negotiation we agreed on £130k on the basis that they wouldn't have to empty it.

I filled 2 skips!

Point is that the property state of repair is not recorded anywhere, so I don't know how HMRC would go along and say it was sold for under market value.

End of the day as said, market value is what people are prepared to pay.

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Paid £130k instead of £250k the next door neighbour paid a week before me for identical house.

However, their property was all refurbished and mine just an empty shell without even hot water and heating.

It had been on the market for over a year and received no offers at advertised price of £200k.

I threw an offer at £125k thinking it would be rejected but after a short negotiation we agreed on £130k on the basis that they wouldn't have to empty it.

I filled 2 skips!

Point is that the property state of repair is not recorded anywhere, so I don't know how HMRC would go along and say it was sold for under market value.

End of the day as said, market value is what people are prepared to pay.

 

Sounds like an awful lot of hard work king - rather you than me!

 

 

As you say, what something is worth - it's market value - will depend on its condition and what someone is willing to pay for a house in that condition. It sounds as if you paid round about the market value for it, given its condition. HMRC interest only happens if the vendor has either died (and Executors are selling the house) or dies within 7 years of the sale - although how they ever know you've sold a house within last 7 years I haven't a clue! HMRC most often query values if the owner has died and the Executors are valuing/selling it. HMRC check the claimed value the Executor puts on the IHT form against their own valuation records and if there is a significant difference they will ask you for evidence to support your claimed valuation.

 

 

Even if that had been relevant to the house you bought it's the seller's problem not the buyer's, HMRC would challenge the seller and if they thought there had been undervaluation to avoid IHT it's the seller who is liable to pay any extra tax.

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The view HMRC takes of this depends whether you are connected to the seller.

 

If you were buying from your uncle, then it looks like a sale at less than market value.

 

If you were buying from someone completely unrelated, then it looks like much better.

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The view HMRC takes of this depends whether you are connected to the seller.

 

How would HMRC know if buyer and seller were uncle and niece/nephew? Last time I filled in Inheritance Tax forms a couple of months ago I don't remember them asking whether the house had been sold. They just asked for the value at date of death I think.

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How would HMRC know if buyer and seller were uncle and niece/nephew? Last time I filled in Inheritance Tax forms a couple of months ago I don't remember them asking whether the house had been sold. They just asked for the value at date of death I think.

 

I don't know how HMRC would investigate this, but there are lots of presumptions in tax legislation dealing with connected persons - see https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm04442.

 

I suppose the trigger would be if the house was sold for clearly less than market value, that may cause questions to be raised.

 

Aside from Inheritance Tax, there is also Capital Gains Tax that needs to be considered if the house is not the seller's residence.

 

There are also deprivation of assets issues if the seller goes into care.

 

It is very difficult for HMRC to challenge tax on a genuine third party sale, but if the persons involved are related/friends then the possibility of tax avoidance being alleged is much higher. Difficult to say more without knowing the details.

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