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Cel pcn Claimform - Lambourne Hse, Bridge Cross Rd, Burntwood, WS7 2BX **STRUCK OUT**

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ive had a ticket from the same carpark and im being taken to court at the end of september,

 

are you able to update as to how you got on and what defence you used?

am i able to use your pictures?

 

i parked at night time and was visiting Khans,

didnt realise i would have to pay at 9pm, plus it was dark so missed the signs.

 

im really hoping that at the very least i just pay the parking charge of £60 as now the charge is at £300 and i just think that is disgusting!

Edited by dx100uk
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Hi There,

 

In the first instance id like to highlight that i have already put forward a rubbish defence and may already have scuppered my chances of winning but thought i may be able to get some help and guidance to try and argue in court.

 

I received a letter from LLP chasing a parking fine which i never received. the fine was in October last year. i ignored all letters until i received a directions questionnaire. i then responded and said....

 

I dont believe i should have to pay this fine because up until recently this car park was free. I didn't realise that a fee was payable, if i did o would have paid the 2.50 charge. You will note that i was on the car park late in the evening and normally most car parks are free at this time.

 

I was visiting Khans (restaurant) and now they offer to pay parking anyway and so it wouldn't have been an issue.

 

It was very dark and i drove in the entrance but exited by foot by the pedestrian access which wasn't sign written.

 

I would hope at the very least due to human error the charge can be reduced if not removed. I know a number of people in the area have had tickets in the same situation.

 

I believe the original fine is 40-60, which i cant see is fair as i would have had to be parked for a number of hours which i wasn't.

 

I know here ive blown my best defense as ive said above that i was driving. im hoping to limit the impact though.

 

ive now started to pull together my witness statement and have listed as below...

1- i parked at a car park, Address: Lambourne House, Bridge Cross Road Burntwood, WS7 2BX. on DATE, In order to issue and to pursue unpaid charges via litigation, the Claimant is required to have the written authority of the landowner, on whose behalf they are acting as an agent.

CEL has taken no steps to provide evidence that such authority has been supplied by the Claimant or their legal representatives, and the Claimant is put to strict proof.

 

2- The parking signs were unclear on the route I took to visit the adjacent shops, it was dark, night-time and the signage was unlit and illegible, and neither were the terms at a height that could have been lit up by headlights. Hence there was no agreed contract nor any 'legitimate interest' excuse for the Claimant to avoid the charge falling foul of the penalty rule, and ParkingEye v Beavis is distinguished. (Exhibit x - photos of the unlit signs taken without a flash).

 

3- i have responded to the previous correspondence issued by the courts and offered mediation to CEL but they have not taken the opportunity to discuss the case directly or via mediation and have decided to pursue via litigation.

 

Unconscionable and unrecoverable inflation of the 'parking charge'

4.1 In addition to the original parking charge, for which liability is denied, the Claimants have artificially inflated the value of the Claim by adding purported Solicitor's Costs of £50, which I submit have not actually been incurred by the Claimant.

 

4.2 Whilst £50 may be recoverable in an instance where a claimant has used a legal firm to prepare a claim, ParkingEye Ltd have not expended any such sum in this case. This Claimant has a Legal Team with salaried in-house Solicitors and it files hundreds of similar 'cut & paste' robo-claims per month, not incurring any legal cost per case. I put the Claimant to strict proof to the contrary because the in-house Solicitors cannot possibly be believed to be paid in the millions per annum for their services.

 

4.3. The added 'legal' cost is in fact an artificially invented figure, which represents a cynical attempt to circumvent the Small Claims costs rules and achieve double recovery. In Beavis, only the parking charge itself (£85) was pursued and the sum was scrutinised by the Supreme Court and held to already include a significant sum in profit; being a pre-set sum dressed up as a fee or charge agreed in contract. This was already significantly over and above the very minimal costs of operating an automated ticketing regime, and it was held that the claim could not have been pleaded as damages, and would have failed.

 

4.4. Similarly, in Somerfield a £75 parking charge was not held to be a penalty but a sum mentioned in the harassing letters of double that amount, almost certainly would be.

 

5. The defendant denies the claim in its entirety voiding any liability to the claimant for all amounts claimed due to the aforementioned reasons. The Court is invited to dismiss the Claim, and to allow such Defendant's costs as are permissible under Civil Procedure Rule 27.14.

 

6. I invite the Court to dismiss this claim in its entirety, and to award my costs of attendance at the hearing, such as are allowable pursuant to CPR 27.14.

Statement of Truth

 

I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.

 

i have attached the pictures of the sign in daylight and the ticket machine which i took from another thread (ill re-fresh these before i submit) i have used some infor from MSE website to help get me on track but hoping for a little more help with regard to signage. i entered the site at 9pm and so will take a picture of the sign at the same time to help prove the case. also i exited the car park through the pedestrian access and so will take further pictures of the lack of signage in the walkway. ive attached the pictures i have.

 

anymore guidance would be great. CEL have to pay court fees by tomorrow and then they can take me to court. if they do i only have till the 14th sept to get my witness statement in and so id appreciate help before then :)

SIGNAGE2.jpg

ENTRANCE.jpg

CAMERA.jpg

MACHINE.jpg

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i understand it isnt a fine and instead its an invoice (for want of a better word) for payment as i breached their terms for using the land. it was just a term i was using to try to put my situation forward.

 

Any help/feedback on my witness statement would be appreciated so that i can get it submitted. i guess the earlier i get it submitted the better. am i able to amend the WS once submitted?

 

 

in addition does anyone know whether they are likely to pay the £25 court fee? they are then out of pocket and may be more likely to take me to court?

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whens the court date?

don't file first!!

 

did you send a CPR 31:14 ?


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nope! i can do this now, my court date is the 28th September and it says on my notice of allocation that if they dont pay the court fee of £25 prior to 31st (today) it is thrown out. im crossing my fingers but think they will and want to be prepared. i only have until the 14th to file my witness statement because i have to give it to them 14 days before court.

 

i don't mean to be stupid but is the request for informatrion you refer to asking CEL to provide a copy of their documents or to ask for the copy of the contract i entered into?

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PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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this is the CPR you send

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465231-Received-a-Court-Claim-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***Updated-Aug-2016***

but it might be too late to even need to bother

have they sent you their WS yet or anything since the claimform bar their N180?


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When you say them, do you mean CEL or do you mean the courts?

 

I've had nothing at all from CEL and only one letter chasing a PCN which i ignored at the very beginning.

 

the courts, i had adirections questionnaire which i completed and returned, they asked if id take mediation which i said i would and since heard nothing, apart from the notice of allocation (with a court date)

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you should have received a copy of their N180

did you send a copy of yours to them?


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Please dont subm,it that witness statement as it is not a defnece but mitigation and you will then lose.

 

 

For starters it is Starpark who offer the contract. they are a different and unrelated company to CEL so for starteres CEL have no LOCUS STANDI, a legal term meaning they have no right to be there ( in court) Now the same person whose name doesnt appear on teh list of directors of either company does have a finger in both pies but tht doesn not mena they are one and the same so look them up on companies house and take copies of the short register for each to show they are not the same entity. the sign for star park breached the POFA as it doesnt give an address for the company offering you the contract so again no liability for paying a cahrge is created. You need to look up the relevant apragraphs of the POFA

 

This is the first thing you state.

 

 

Secondly we need to see the paperwork they sent you as the NTK as they are relying on keeper liability as they use ANPR to cllect your keeper details. If their paperwork is wrong ( it will be) then they cant sue you as the keeper so have to PROVE that you were also the driver at the time. as they cant you would be unwise to tell them that you were as you are doing all the way through your WS

 

 

Also it is not a FINE. By using that terminology you are giving them hope that you are also ill informed enough to pay them or at least screw up yoru WS so badly that you have to apy them. You are right about the limit f thier claim but that is down to the provisions of the POFA and again they have to prove they did it all nicely, which they wont have so no money for them.

 

 

the they will not have planning permission for thei equipment or signage so they are acting illegally and you cnat enter into a criminal compact with them so no contract anyways to breach. You will then need to read up on the Town and Country Planning Act 2007 advertising hoardings regs. Asl the local council if they have PP a simple yes or no is all you need as far as info.

 

lastly inadequate signage. As it was dark when the driver stopped and there were no signs at the entrance to the car park it cannot be said that the conditions of parking were made clear at the outset to the driver there was no offer and consideration so no contract formed.

 

 

Gte pictures of the entrance to the land from the public highway fro the driver of a vehicles perspective. If they cnat read the signs passing them in a moving car at night then how are you supposed to know about the content of them.

Edited by honeybee13
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I'm fairly sure a witness statement is essentially an elaboration of the points mentioned within your defence? Thus meaning you cannot introduce new evidence without permission of the court (I.e. Points of law/arguments that weren't present within your defence), otherwise parties would be able to ambush at the last moment.

 

You've missed a big point which I've used to have a couple of CEL and BW Legal claims struck out, is that the claimant doesn't correctly sign the claimform, they sign it in the name of their company, which isn't allowed.

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hi i beloeve the N180 is the directions questionnaire and i sent this to the ccbcaq email address because thats what it asked me to do. am i supposed to send the information through to CEL also? I havent done that at the moment.

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im not sure i can mention anything to do with Keepers resonsibility as in my earlier defence i mention that i parked there. so i left that point out of my WS as i didnt want to contriict myself you see. Ill definately use the other points and amend my document.

 

they had until the 31st to pay the court fee so im guessing ill find out shortly if they want to proceed. i really hope not

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it would be best to but you wont get punished for not doing so as it merely decides what court track is applicable and will then send to it be heard at your local county court.

Reason for sending it to claimant? they then know that you arent going to roll over and it will cost them money to continue so chances are CEL will then not pay the allocation fee and the matter will die. keep an eye on the dates that various things have to happen by. Registering at MCOL makes this easier

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Thanks for coming back to me i really appreciate it.

 

Did you send the details to CEL direct? and provide a reference?

Ive not contacted them direct at all and only sent my directions questionnaire via the courts email.

 

i wonder if i need to change tact.

they had to pay the £25 court fee by the 31st otherwise the case is thrown out and so im not sure whether thats been done yet.

 

ill have 14 days to lodge my witness statement though so want to get it sorted out and submitted just in case it does go through.

Another thread suggests i wait until they submit a WS but i dont want to leave it late and end up on the backfoot

 

i am quite happy to go to court to try and argue my case about the car park but ideally would love it to be dropped to save taking a day off work etc.

 

Also im just about to buy a house so worried about my credit report.

i know ill not get a CCJ as long as i pay straight away.

its still a worry.

Edited by dx100uk
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might be best to stick to your own thread loulabell123

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?489559-Cel-pcn-Claimform-Lambourne-Hse-Bridge-Cross-Rd-Burntwood-WS7-2BX

ads can answer you there

 

please update it with what you have posted above

and stop calling it a fine..it is not a fine

its a speculative invoice - hence the claimform from a civil county court ...not a criminal magistrates court.


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Hi all. I know you told me to start a new thread but just to update this one.... I got a letter from the court dated the 5th sept saying cel haven’t paid the court feee and so the case is struck out.

 

Yesterday I get a letter dated 29/8 saying I can pay 100 and they wouldn’t take me to court, too late of course! They sent me what looked like a standard format letter and a witness statement. It was received after the date so I guess it’s just a late attempt to get you to cough up!

 

I’d suggest that cel will drop it as I hadn’t even sent my witness statement in.

 

Robbing b-dogs!

 

Thanks for all the help!

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they normally wait for you to offer a defence befoe running away. Consider yourself lucky they dropped the ball at this stage. They sometimes try to contact you after a court hearing they failed to attend to get you to agree to pay them something. Not the sharpest tool in the box but certainly plenty of chutzpah

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Hi all. I know you told me to start a new threadicon but just to update this one.... I got a letter from the court dated the 5th sept saying cel haven’t paid the court feee and so the case is struck out.

 

Yesterday I get a letter dated 29/8 saying I can pay 100 and they wouldn’t take me to court, too late of course! They sent me what looked like a standard format letter and a witness statement. It was received after the date so I guess it’s just a late attempt to get you to cough up!

 

I’d suggest that cel will drop it as I hadn’t even sent my witness statement in.

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we know that, you palsterd it on another thread that wasn't yours.

 

The advice you offer though I wouldnt recommend, they can read and may try their luck up to the next stage as they used to do.

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PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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yes its the same ticket. i had written on the first thread (Ads-uk) as it was in the same area on the same car park and so was assuming you would prefer not to have hundreds of threads about the same thing. the post individually was when i was asked to do so.

 

I didn't plaster it all over anything i was trying to provide an update incase anyone else was in my situation and then they could see that my court was stayed as CEL didnt pay. also it meant that you weren't keeping an eye out to keep giving advise.

 

it would be helpful to remember that not everyone is familiar with the forums and the way the threads work. you are all great at providing help but this is normally a first time thing for most of us and its easy for you to forget that is quite worrying when you are dealing with it daily and it becomes the norm.

 

im sorry if my above advise is incorrect and i did suggest that Helen follows the lead from the people here as you have been really helpful. i thought it may help for her to see that although i had done things wrong the case was still dropped.

 

its such a huge con and completely shocking that these companies are allow to do this sort of thing and scare people and im so greatful for the advise recieved here. Thanks

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Threads merged and tidied

Title updated as struck out


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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Loulabell. Thank you for updating for me, sorry if you've got into trouble over it. I too am new to this site and finding the whole process very stressful, no one seems to be commenting on my thread now so I've submitted an appeal based on some of the other threads.

 

Thanks again and well done for getting them to drop it. I hope I get the same amount of advise and don't keep accidentally posting in the wrong place.

 

It's quite confusing to a newbie but like you am very very grateful for all the expertise on here.

 

H

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Dx100uk. Do you know if someone has merged or deleted my new thread, it seems to have vanished! I'm really sorry for any confusion with cross threads but I started my own and now it's vanished (well I can't see it)

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