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andrew hastings

what is my liability and what should i do? please read

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2 years ago i bought a motorcycle and titles never changed to my name

 

.seller called me now and told me that 1 year ago supposingly someone took my bike and failed to stop on police signal in the night.

 

the police contacted previous owner as it was still registered to him,

went at the police station but he didnt remember my details to contact me.

 

now,after 6 months, he remembered my details as he stands a court for failing to transfer the titles and he said he is going to mention me in the court.

ofcourse it wasnt me.

 

by the way i have transferred the titles to my name today.

i dont want to blame the previous owner as the truth is that i had the bike but didnt commit that offence.

 

as i checked my messenger i was talking to my gf that night from home so i can prove that and from my ip.

 

how can i prove it and what can i say if called to court after all this time?

what are my liabilities?

 

more over will i be the keeper in law's eyes?

 

best regards

Edited by dx100uk
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WHy didnt you transfer the title when you bought it?

 

And if you had the bike.. who comitted the offence. You are obliged to name the person to the police, or the consequences can be a lot more severe.


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i didnt know the law so well i thought the seller has done that. also i believe it was seller's duty.

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How have you been able to tax it over the past 2 years?

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How have you been able to tax it over the past 2 years?

 

no, the bike was broken and i didnt use it at all

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WHy didnt you transfer the title when you bought it?

 

And if you had the bike.. who comitted the offence. You are obliged to name the person to the police, or the consequences can be a lot more severe.

 

How can i name a person after a year of not having knowledge of such an event occured?

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So you have this bike, which you say has been broken and unused for the last two years (so broken that it wasn't taxed or declared off road). But in the middle of those two years somebody rode it and committed an offence on it.

 

Your liability is that, as the person keeping the vehicle at the time of an allegation (which you do not dispute), you have an obligation, if you are asked, to provide the details of the driver at the time of that allegation. Have you been formally asked? What exactly is your involvement at present?

 

If you fill in the gaps in the story (both parts as mentioned above) you may get some help.

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Hopefully the bike had a SORN on it otherwise even more fines on the way.

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Hopefully the bike had a SORN on it otherwise even more fines on the way.

 

i have put it on SORN now that i registered it. it wasnt before

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So you have this bike, which you say has been broken and unused for the last two years (so broken that it wasn't taxed or declared off road). But in the middle of those two years somebody rode it and committed an offence on it.

 

Your liability is that, as the person keeping the vehicle at the time of an allegation (which you do not dispute), you have an obligation, if you are asked, to provide the details of the driver at the time of that allegation. Have you been formally asked? What exactly is your involvement at present?

 

If you fill in the gaps in the story (both parts as mentioned above) you may get some help.

 

i agree that my liability would be to provide details if i was the keeper. but formaly i wasnt as nor titles were exchanged nor any other proof of sale to me. its like a friend gave a car to me to keep at my home and i gave it to another guy who crashed it. who would be liable for damages? anyway. even if i am the keeper under the eyes of law, how can i provide details now after 1 year for a supposed incident of what i dont have a clue it happened? i havent been formally asked by anyone but since the registered owner is going to present my name at court i believe i will be called. I dont have an involment at present except of what is mentioned.

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i agree that my liability would be to provide details if i was the keeper. but formaly i wasnt as nor titles were exchanged nor any other proof of sale to me

 

You were "the person keeping the vehicle" at the relevant time. It does not matter if you were the not the Registered Keeper, or the owner. "The person keeping the vehicle" has a specific mention in Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act (which is the legislation that places the obligation on you to provide drivers details). To understand this, imagine a leased car. The lease company will be the owner and the Registered Keeper, but they are not the "person keeping the vehicle". The person to whom it is leased and who (presumably) usually drives it is.

 

I don't actually know what your concern about having to name the driver is at this stage. If the previous owner is being prosecuted for failing to notify a change of ownership that has nothing to do with you. If he mentions that he sold it to you there is no reason why you should be formally asked to provide the driver's details at the time of the offence you mention. The two things are unrelated. What may be of a more urgent concern to you is that you have had in your possession a motor vehicle which you have neither registered in your own name, nor paid vehicle excise duty nor declared it off road. You may find some enquiries re made into that situation now that you have contacted the DVLA though you may escape action for some of those offences as you were not the Registered Keeper.

 

There is no point is running through your situation should you face a request to name the driver unless and until it is made of you. One thing the prosecutors may bear in mind is that for most (though not all) driving offences there is a limit of six months from the date of the offence beyond which no prosecution can take place.

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Cloned number plate?


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Cloned number plate?

 

Very possibly (although they are incredibly rare). Unfortunately we don't have any indication from the OP whether or not he believes his vehicle was involved or not. We only know that he took possession of the bike, did nothing to formalise his ownership of it and then it remained, seemingly unused because it was broken.

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I wonder if there is video footage or if its just a PC got it wrong when they failed to stop?

and its just progressed through the system?


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You were "the person keeping the vehicle" at the relevant time. It does not matter if you were the not the Registered Keeper, or the owner. "The person keeping the vehicle" has a specific mention in Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act (which is the legislation that places the obligation on you to provide drivers details). To understand this, imagine a leased car. The lease company will be the owner and the Registered Keeper, but they are not the "person keeping the vehicle". The person to whom it is leased and who (presumably) usually drives it is.

 

I don't actually know what your concern about having to name the driver is at this stage. If the previous owner is being prosecuted for failing to notify a change of ownership that has nothing to do with you. If he mentions that he sold it to you there is no reason why you should be formally asked to provide the driver's details at the time of the offence you mention. The two things are unrelated. What may be of a more urgent concern to you is that you have had in your possession a motor vehicle which you have neither registered in your own name, nor paid vehicle excise duty nor declared it off road. You may find some enquiries re made into that situation now that you have contacted the DVLA though you may escape action for some of those offences as you were not the Registered Keeper.

 

There is no point is running through your situation should you face a request to name the driver unless and until it is made of you. One thing the prosecutors may bear in mind is that for most (though not all) driving offences there is a limit of six months from the date of the offence beyond which no prosecution can take place.

 

if he mentions that he sold it to me i dont think that court and police will just drop the case.As you said above''The person keeping the vehicle" has a specific mention in Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act (which is the legislation that places the obligation on you to provide drivers details)''so i believe they will enquire me about identifying the driver as i had it in my possesion and if i tell them i dont know they will assume i was the driver even though i wasnt. i am so scared by the whole situation.also will that hit my criminal record?

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I wonder if there is video footage or if its just a PC got it wrong when they failed to stop?

and its just progressed through the system?

 

the previous owner told it was a police man.

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they wont drop it just because there is now 2 people to chase for separate offences.

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they wont drop it just because there is now 2 people to chase for separate offences.

 

thats what i also believe.the issue is what can i do , what are my liabilities and what is the best way to address them?

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You keep on asking the same question and I keep on giving you the same answer. There is too much missing from this story to answer properly. However, I'll try one last time:

 

As I understand it the situation is this:

 

 

- You bought a bike two years ago and failed to ensure that it was registered in your name.

- A year ago someone was detected on the bike (or at least a vehicle with that registration number) committing a traffic offence.

- The police went to the previous owner (in whose name the bike was still registered).

- He told them he had sold the bike but could not remember your details.

- Six months later he finally did remember your details.

- He now faces court for failing to ensure that the registration had been transferred.

 

(Please tell me if I have any of this wrong)

 

So up to now you have no responsibilities. You haven't been asked to supply any details to anyone. However, he already faces action for failing to notify the DVLA of a change of ownership. You may face action for failing to tax the vehicle (or declare it off road). You may also face action for failing to insure the vehicle. Under the "continuous insurance" legislation a vehicle not declared off road must have third party insurance (and I assume from what you say that you didn't have any). There's nothing you can do about either of those. You must wait and see what, if any, allegations are made.

 

Although you currently have no responsibility to name the driver at the time of the alleged offence a year ago, a request might come your way. In order to help with that you need to say what the offence was (and you won't know that until you get an official request). It would also help if you said whether you believed your vehicle could have been involved or whether you believe that it was another vehicle. But until you get an official request there is nothing you can do anyway.

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You have nothing wrong in your understanding.

That is how the things are currently.

 

The guy has a court in a month so i will have to wait.

Thank you for the time you consume for answering my enqueries

Edited by dx100uk
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agree, all you can do is wait. Sometimes it is just not worth their while taking actiondue to cost or the liklihood of getting a conviction is low. If there is somehting the DVLA can clobber you for a flat fee penalty I'm sure you will hear soon enough

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