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UKCPM/Gladstones Letter ofClaim - windscreen PCN -Nash Mills Wharf estate private road

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Hi there,

 

My wife parked on the road outside of our building, it was late at night and she's heavily pregnant.

Someone gave us a charge notice at 3AM in the morning, clearly nothing better to do..

 

They've sent us the images including the car, number plate, and parking conditions.

You can only actually see the conditions as they've used a flash camera and they aren't clearly signed at night anyways..

 

They don't own the land, and I'm not even sure why they're even here.

 

I've read lots of the posts before about best practice, but can't seem to find the template letter/email to send them.

Should I even bother replying or just bin all the letters, I think the images alone show that they've not signed the road correctly...

 

Thanks for any help/advice.

 

The ticket was also received on 3rd of July, and they mailed me on the 7th August.

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OK, what is it they say you have done to breach the contract they offer at the place?

Does this supposed breach actually match up with anything offered to you as a contract for parking as laid out on the signage at the site.

is obvious that there wasnt an illustrated sign so give us an idea of where the signage is in relation to where your vehicle was and where the entrance to the flats.

 

Show us a redacted version of what you have received, remove name car reg, barcodes and QR codes but leave in dates and times.

One problem they will have is that the person slapping the ticket on will have disappeared in an instant so you can always argue that you were only there for 5 minutes and this is well inside the 10 minutes allowed

 

Lastly, who owns the land?

Is it a developer,

Housing association or other.

 

lastly you wont be emailing anyone.

Once we have seen the ticket,

Notice to keeper and signage we will advise of a suitable response.

 

It wont be polite but it will be factual so I suggest that you either use it as is or dont send anything

Edited by honeybee13
Paras

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Thanks for your fast response.

 

I've attached the image of the demand letter:

Also attaching an image of the sign:

 

The flat entrance is around 10-15 yards away on the other side of the road.

The parking sign is around 5/6 yards back from the car, but at night you can't really see anything as it's dark round here and they have no lighting on the sign at all.

 

The land is owned by the developer, and managed by a service company called Chamonix Estates.

I also have no issue sending a hard letter!

 

Answers also below:

 

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....

 

1 The date of infringement? 3rd July 03:25 AM

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? No

 

 

If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]. I’ve received a Formal demand.

what date is on it: 7th August

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? Yes – although the images aren’t that clear.

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) - Yes

 

5 Who is the parking company? UK CPM

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Nash Mills Wharf, it’s a private road on our estate.

There isn’t enough parking provided by the developer so cars are parked all over the main streets as well as along that road my wife parked on.

 

Let me know if you need anything else?

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Hello agan.

 

 

If you want to attach images it's better to use our upload guide please. Especially for people with mobile phones it's easier to find and read the images.

 

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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If it was a ticket on windscreen, if they didnt send a NTK out and your address on the vehicle is correct, theres nothign they can do.

 

Theyre bottom feeders, make tons of mistakes but will never admit it.


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Now we need to see the signage nearest to where the car was and also the entrance to the development from the public highway even if there is no signs there (if that is the case then they are stuck).

 

If the signage is on the other side of the road it will be difficult for the parking co to argue that it applies to where you were unless it is about the whole area and then it usually becomes a matter of prohibition and that isnt a genuine offer of terms to PARK.

 

Also it would be useful to know what your lease says about parking if applicable

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Hi all, Please see the other information attached.

 

The sign near where car was parked is the same sign that is in the other PDF further up the thread.

Further evidence.pdf

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well, they have murdered the english language with that one.

Having a contract where you agree to do something without permission is an impossibility, you either agree to terms and thus have a bare licence to do that (ie permission that can be withdrawn) or it is prohibited and thus not subject to a contract as the parking co has nothing to offer for you to consider.

The rest of the wording almost makes sense as far as an offer goes but that is the spoiler.

 

On the picture to the entrance from the road there is a sign saying no parking, that is contradictory and confusing as again it makes a nonsense of the offer on the sign next to it.

 

The NTK has problems with it as well as far as the POFA goes and also doesnt make clear what exactly the breach of contract or contractual clause invoked is.

there isnt a specifc term regarding no parking on access as that is excluded from the terms offered.

 

Now, the NTK doesnt say what it is, just formal demand, it doesnt identify the land in question with any certainty.

Perhaps you can be specific, was it in Croxley Rd or somewhere else as Nash Mills Wharf appears to be the name of the towpath there

( I am guessing they could mean a development of the same name but lets not assume this to be true)

 

If Croxlet rd please identify where that is in relation to Nash Mills Wharf as I cant find it labelled on Googleknowseverything

Edited by dx100uk
spacing

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Thanks for the reply. Croxley road is in the development, the whole development is Nash Mills Wharf or The Embankment, it's pretty confusing!

 

Croxley road, Apsley, brings it up in Google, and the estate is all above the 'red lion lane' and on the left of 'lower road'

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That makes things clearer but fortunately mean they dont win a coconut as there are many parts that clearly ahve other names that are precise. The letter is a bit like sending a demand for parking in WALES, correct but not precise to a location that they actually manage. You can go and take some picture of the wharf and that will show that theoretically they are claiming you parked in the canal.

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Ha yeah, kind of thought that. They seem clueless, and I also hate their little scheme where someone can use an app to take pics for them..

 

So what's the best foot forward?

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do nothing and let them waste their time and money chasing you.

they will get a pet dca to send you threatograms and eventually you will get a nasty letter from the parking worlds greatest showmen at Gladstones solicitors ( clowns and cowboys giving daily performances in a big tent on a golf course somewhere near you).

 

At that point you write to them telling them where to go becasue until then any correspondence will appear to be an attempt to settle so they will keep going with their demand.

 

You also dont want to be showing them your hand if they cant be bothered to trawl the web looking for deviants who wont obey their demands and if they are and think they can identify you then they will also know that they arent watching the driver so having got their paperwork wrong now have no-one else to chase despite knowing you werent driving

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Hi.

 

 

I can't add much to what ericsbrother has said, but having lived quite close to Apsley, it looks to me from google that Croxley Road is off Belswains Lane fwiw.

 

The Nash Mills development is huge, isn't it and on the site of the old John Dickinson paper works by the canal?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Now, quite a few parking co's do this so called self ticketing schemes where they pay some stooge 50p for some happy snaps and then bill the motorist for a small fortune.

 

It has got me thinking, as the stooge isnt employed by the parking co but is processing personal data then they will have to register with the ICO as a data controller. If they havent then they are committing a criminal act and that means as the contract is based around criminality you arent bound by it.

Might be worth dobbing the person with the camera in if you happen to work out their name and address and let the ICO consider it.

 

Ha yeah, kind of thought that. They seem clueless, and I also hate their little scheme where someone can use an app to take pics for them..

 

So what's the best foot forward?

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Good point EB, also GDPR applies now.


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Hi.

 

 

I can't add much to what ericsbrother has said, but having lived quite close to Apsley, it looks to me from google that Croxley Road is off Belswains Lane fwiw.

 

The Nash Mills development is huge, isn't it and on the site of the old John Dickinson paper works by the canal?

 

HB

 

Yes, it's there. It is a huge development, but i think the service company are trying to extort as much money as possible, there's no reason to allow no parking at all as the roads are more than wide enough.

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Are other people having the same problem? Maybe once you're through this you could get people together and help them or even get things changed.

 

 

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Yeah, the issue is that everyone gets 1 space in the inside car park, and then there is a tiny visitor car park. All the people parking on the main road are having issues such as break ins, cars keyed, general damage etc. So the choice if you have 2 cars in a house hold, is either risk it on the main road, or park on the estate and take a ticket.

 

I did see a girl today who must have 50+ tickets and she just said she's never paid a single one, and more people are starting to ignore them!

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I did see a girl today who must have 50+ tickets and she just said she's never paid a single one, and more people are starting to ignore them!

 

Dangerous practice. With so much money involved it's worth UKPCM using a top legal expert rather than the dross they usually use.

A] because they can afford to

B] because winning encourages so many others to cough up early

C] Judges take a dim view of people constantly ignoring signs and taking advantage

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having 50 tickets means that you have to know how to beat them because as said, it becomes economically viable to throw greater resources at such actions, esp if the sum owed gets above £10k as full costs can then be claimed. that is what happened in the case in Sciotland, poor defence and £20k debt left her bankrupt and homeless

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as post 14.

 

dx


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