KBT/Armtrac/TNC windscreen PCN - Car park Copper Terrace/Prospect Place, Hayle, Cornwall

[Mr.B]

Hi

My wife received a ticket from Armtrac in Cornwall 1/18.

 

We waited the 56 days for NTK which did not arrive.

 

On Friday 10/8/18 my wife received text from TNC (don't know how they got number) requesting payment.

 

We checked with DVLA to see if Armtrac/TNC had requested Keeper details but it appears my wife forgot to update DVLA of a change of address in 11/17, so NTK could have been sent to old address.

 

My wife received another text this morning to contact TNC to pay or the matter will be escalated.

Not sure what to do now.

 

Many thanks for any advice.

Edited August 13, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[dx100uk]

hi mr b

can you complete this please

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket-(4-Viewing)-nbsp

[dx100uk]

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?483828-Armtrac-Security-windscreen-PNC-Over-stay-at-St.Ives

[lookinforinfo]

Welcome to the Forum. Did either of you ring or text Armtrack at all so they could lift your phone number? Please block them for contacting you this way and block any other company working with Amtrack [eg debt collectors and solicitors] who contact you by text. Could you please also write to them demanding that all correspondence is by letter only and advise them of your current address-this will prevent them from getting a CCJ using your old address. At the same time tell them that you haven't received the NTK so it would help you to pay them if you could have a copy. [You're not going to pay but if they think that you will pay they may send a copy.] Please ensure when you write that you do not divulge who was driving. At the moment all they know is the name of the keeper who may not be the driver and the keeper can be protected by the Protection of Freedom Act.

 

To help us give the best advice could you please complete the following-

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket-(3-Viewing)-nbsp

 

After that could you please post up a copy of your NTK so we can see if it does offer a contract. Following that could you take photographs of all the signs in the car park and their positions within the car park as well as a photo of the ticket machine if there is one.

 

In order for you to be liable to pay these speculative invoices parking companies have to get a number of things right. They never seem to manage it so there is no reason to pay their ridiculous charges. So what we are looking to do is find out where Armtrack has gone wrong to avoid paying them. It would help you feel more relaxed about the situation if you read some of the other threads in this section especially those who were being pursued by Armtrack. Whichever you look at the result will be either the parking company back down or they just give up and try it on with some other motorist.

[Mr.B]

Hi dx100uk

Sorry, I'm not sure what it is you are asking me to complete.

 

Following BPA advice we did nothing with the parking notice except wait for the 56 days to expire and see if we received an NTK.

 

As explained we did not receive the NTK possibly because it went to an old address which we no longer live at.

We were just wondering if it is safe to ignore TNC legal's texts requesting payment.

 

We do not believe either Armtrac or TNC have our current address, although they appear to have got hold of my wife's mobile number from somewhere.

[renegadeimp]

Texts mean nothing. For all they know, the number could be discontinued.

 

You need to find out where the NTK went, and if it was even sent.

[lookinforinfo]

Hi Mr. B dx100uk has beaten me to replying so please ignore filling out the questionnaire on my post and complete his.

[Mr.B]

Hi lookinforinfo

 

Many thanks for responding in such detail.

 

My wife may have called them at the time.

I know she telephoned the Police who advised her to pay the charge, so she might have phoned Arntrac straight after that.

 

She has just attempted to block TNC on her mobile but is unable to do so.

I will write to TNC as you suggest, as the last thing we need is a CCJ at our old address.

 

When we receive the NTK we will, of course, post it for you to have a look at.

We took photographs of the site.

 

I went down to the area in question with my wife immediately after she had the ticket in January 2018 and the sign about parking is pretty well hidden amongst similar size and coloured signage on a wall of a shop building.

 

We will post the pictures along with the NTK when we receive it.

There was and still is no ticket machine at the site.

 

As I said in my original posting, we have done nothing with this except wait for the 56 days to expire and when we received no NTK we thought it wasn't going to be pursued.

 

Sorry, but I can't see how to complete the details on the link you have included.

I have read many of the threads and those on other forums.

 

I think what is throwing us is that we failed to let the DVLA know of our change of address and therefore we do not know if TNC has issued a NTK.

 

If I knew for certain that they hadn't, I wouldn't be worried as obviously they would have failed that part of the process.

 

Hi renegadeimp

Thanks for responding.

We have contacted the DVLA again today as they did not advise us on Friday if they have been approached by Armtrac/TNC for details.

We are awaiting their next response.

 

In the meantime, I am going to write to Armtrac/TNC as per lookinfoinfo's helpful advice to get confirmations from them (if they can) as to whether and where the NTK was sent.

 

Current charge according to TNC is now £170 - £100 original charge, plus £70 for all, the hard work they have put in!

Edited August 13, 2018 by dx100uk
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[dx100uk]

click this link

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket-(3-Viewing)-nbsp

 

copy and paste the post to your thread here in a new msg box

and answer each question please.

 

you need in some form or another to WRITE to Amtrac/TNC and make sure they know your correct address

else they will try a backdoor CCJ and you wont know about it.

 

dx

[Mr.B]

Hi dx

 

 

Have done as you suggest and completed, copied and pasted the questionnaire onto the thread. Hopefully, its there! Letter will be on its way to Armtrac and TNC tomorrow. Will post a redacted copy of that to the post too. Thanks for all your help today.

[dx100uk]

Where?

[lookinforinfo]

Interesting that all the crooked parking companies seem to think it is ok to add £60 and upwards to their unpaid invoices despite claiming to adhere to their organisation's Code of Conduct.

Both of those Associations claim that they agree with the OFT on debt collection which states quite clearly that they accept the OFT rulings even though it is no longer in business.

 

The Police are getting worse. Understandable perhaps that they mostly tend to support bailiffs because they do bring in money that helps pay Police salaries but to advise people to pay these

thieving parking companies is a serious error.

[Mr.B]

Hi dx

For some reason my reply to your last message hasn't posted. I pasted the completed questionnaire into that for you to see - details of the car park in question and dates etc. Don't know where it has gone. Will try again tomorrow.

[renegadeimp]

Interesting that all the crooked parking companies seem to think it is ok to add £60 and upwards to their unpaid invoices despite claiming to adhere to their organisation's Code of Conduct.

Both of those Associations claim that they agree with the OFT on debt collection which states quite clearly that they accept the OFT rulings even though it is no longer in business.

 

The Police are getting worse. Understandable perhaps that they mostly tend to support bailiffs because they do bring in money that helps pay Police salaries but to advise people to pay these

thieving parking companies is a serious error.

 

No. They help bailiffs because the majority of the police are not trained in that area.

[Gick]

No, they help bailiffs because they can produce a warrant of execution from the Court, COMMANDING them to carry out whatever action is stated! Wherever did you get the idea that there is a financial incentive to assist them. Doh!

 

As far as advising over the telephone, firstly we do not know what questions were asked to elicite such a response, niether do we know if it was a police officer rather than a civilian operator. Having said that, I agree that the niceties of contract law are often lost on them as it is a lesser priority in their training.

[ericsbrother]

my advice is to ignore the monkey and write to the organ grindeer and tell them in no uncertian terms that their signage is too cr@p to form a contract and to do their worst.

 

 

TNC are rentathreats and have no say in anything so dotn waste your time on them.

 

 

Now, knowing what the siganeg says and seeing the loaction of the signs will help us enormously to help you. there are usually planty of things that are wrong with these unilateral contract offers to destroy any claim they make so they rely on lies and bullying to get you to pay.

Edited August 14, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[lookinforinfo]

No, they help bailiffs because they can produce a warrant of execution from the Court, COMMANDING them to carry out whatever action is stated! Wherever did you get the idea that there is a financial incentive to assist them. Doh!

 

As far as advising over the telephone, firstly we do not know what questions were asked to elicite such a response, niether do we know if it was a police officer rather than a civilian operator. Having said that, I agree that the niceties of contract law are often lost on them as it is a lesser priority in their training.

 

My apologies to the OP for sidetracking his thread.

 

The Police do not only carry out the commands on the warrant they go well beyond it at times as you would see if you looked at some of the bailiff threads. The Police sometimes advise the alleged debtors to let the bailiff in to the property which is generally the worst advice they could give. And that is one of the many instances where the Police give the wrong advice when they know insufficient knowledge on bailiff law which by your own admission is a lesser priority for them.[And yes I know that they are now called EAs but leopards do not change their spots].

 

Where did I get the bit about the financial incentive? Don't you ever read Police forums? There they often refer to the people that are being pursued by bailiffs as scrotes. They appear to think that bailiffs are on the same side as they are and collecting money for the Public purse- eg Police salaries.

 

And it matters not who answers the phone-a Police officer or a civilian, as far as the person on the other end of the line it is the Police who give the advice and they do not often the necessary information to give that kind of advice. You should surely acknowledge my last point since the information to pay the speculative invoice was

completely wrong and should not have been proffered whoever said it.

[Gick]

I should have been clearer, The baliffs have the warrant, the police attend merely to prevent a breach of the peace!

 

You seem to be generalizing about the activities of the police without giving any specifics.

 

Your third paragraph is just plain bigotry (they appear to think that balliffs(sic) are on the same side as they are and collecting money for the Public purse - eg Police salaries

 

Final paragraph, we do not know what questions were asked to elicit the posted answeres ( as I mentioned in my previous reply). I agree that the caller expects to receive correct advice, but to castigate all police for a possible error from an unknown officer/civilian just shows your anti-police attitude. It is even possible that the impression given to the call handler was that it was a council PCN, the op is only quoting his wife's response of January 2018 so hardly 'evidence' of what was said.

[lookinforinfo]

I do not have an anti Police attitude. One of my Uncle's son was in the SPG before becoming a Weapons Training Instructor: I went to a Policeman's wedding [an old school friend];I used to go drinking with an Inspector from Hendon etc etc. But that doesn't mean that I cannot criticize the Police when they are at fault does it?

 

I am surprised that a Police Officer of all people appears not to have read part of my post clearly. I said that I had been looking at several Police Forums and picked up on the fact that they sometimes referred to alleged debtors as being "scrotes" [which didn't elicit a comment from you which I took to mean that you were aware of that ]. I then repeated something else said on a Police Forum which was that the Police seem to think that bailiffs [spelt correctly as on most occasions] are at one with them because they collect money for the Public Purse or similar expression and it was from there they thought Police got their pay from. I am not sure therefore why reporting something to back up a statement I had already made makes me the bigot.

[Gick]

lookingforinfo - I have no intention of a 'tit for tat' exchange, but you have made assumptions that are erroneous.

 

I did read all of your post.

 

I did not respond to your para 3 concerning ' Don't you ever read Police forums?' which according to you speaks derogaratively of debtors, because a) I do not read such fora. b) you gave no link or citation for such entries.

 

You cannot assume from my non response that I was aware of such anonymous entries, (you start to sound like ericsbrother's 'worlds most superior solicitors')

 

You repeat some unknown poster about police assisting bailiffs because it pays their salaries, when patently that assertion is incorrect. Your opinion is that this is correct, against the opinion of any person having an understanding of the laws regarding to debt. You do not accept any other opinion on that so yes you display bigotry.

 

We only have your word that you are not anti police, nice list of positive relations by the way, but your attitude in this thread speaks otherwise.

 

This is my last word on this thread, so if you wish to get in the last word, 'fill yer boots' as the scrotes would say.

[ericsbrother]

When people observe englishmen abroad they think the whole country is populated by such people and I would say the same applies here.

 

The ACPO as a private members club has no authority to do or say anything but Home Secretaries listen to them, they act in their own self interest and create money making wheezes that are not part of the legal procedure but are then rolled out nationwide and all forces are then viewed and judged accordingly.

 

Seniors have made decisions in the past that suit their purpose and feather the nest of the ACPO as a trading company and they get the poor plod to enforce their utterances even though there is no legal basis to do so.

 

Ask any Registered Firearms Dealer whether their constabulary apply the letter of the law to their business or whether they implement the made up ACPO guidelines that have no legal support. It would be a brave copper that decided to ignore such words from on high and likewise a RFD to say no to the latest demand.

 

It is easy to form an opinion about someone and fall out over nothing when writing in a forum such as this becasue you cant see each other's faces and gestures and there are characteristics that tell us more than just words ever will. That is why people appear to be credible witneses or not, very little to do with their actual statements so taking someone's word for something or not is a hard decision to get right when you cant actually see them.

 

I would suggest that the diversion from the original purpose of the thread may leave the OP a little intimidated to come back but I hope that they do and all contributors will carry on offering advice and not take comments personally when aimed generally or when using an example to read it as though it is universal.

Edited August 20, 2018 by dx100uk
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[Mr.B]

Hi everyone.

 

We wrote to KBT Cornwall (Armtrac) and a copy went to TNC on 13th August advising them that we did not want to receive any further texts from TNC and that we would only deal direct with KBT Cornwall. We did not advise them of driver or keeper details.

 

Today my wife received a letter from TNC, despite telling them that we would not enter into correspondence with them, only KBT. They refer in the letter received today to a previous letter dated 30/7/18. This letter, like others, may have gone to our old address. We, therefore, do not know what it said.

 

TNC has demanded payment today, directly to them or they will seek approval from their client (whom I am assuming is still KBT Cornwall/Armtrac) to pass the account to a Doorstep Collection Agent.

 

The letter goes on to state that their client has acted with all due regard for the legal principles involved in such matters. Should we write back and request copies of previous correspondence that might have gone to our old address - for all we know the letter of 30/7/18 might have been related to a court judgement, although I somehow doubt this as surely TNC would have had to mention this in this latest letter?

 

Should we just ignore and sit tight?

Many thanks again for any advice.

Edited August 31, 2018 by dx100uk
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[dx100uk]

They know your correct address

So cant be any court stuff yet

 

Yes id ignore them

 

Until/unless you get aletter of claim

[Mr.B]

Many thanks dx for your response. The fact that this extortion is remotely legal beggars belief.

[dx100uk]

ofcourse it 'legal'

in as far as anyone can take anyone to court...