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    • ok looks like that's what you need to do. but keep it bare bones for now as post 5  
    • stuff and all if there no signed agreement in the return   dx  
    • 1st again why do you keep changing things before you send them   you've added counterclaim in to our std CPR 31:14 you sent? why? this opens you up to additional costs and I hope you didnt tick counterclaim when you did AOS on mcol too?   also I notice you've  played with our std OD defence above too...   pers I would refrain from continuing to change things as they are written in the frain they are for specific reasons.   your defence is due by 4pm Monday [day 33]   here are 2 versions you will ofcourse need to adapt them to lowells para no's and remove the NOA stuff as your docs show Lowell have complied with those. but don't forget to mention other documents provided to date notably statements contain no proof they came from Lloyds but rather Lowells own internal data system    dx   1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant entering into an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') with the [insert original creditor] . .  2. The defendant denies that the account exceeded the agreed overdraft limit due to overdrawing of funds but is as a result of unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account. .  3. I refute the claimants claim is owed or payable. The amount claimed is comprised of amongst others default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, missed or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety. .  4. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon. .  5. The claimant is denied from added section 69 interest within the total claimed that as yet to be decided at the courts discretion. .  6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. .  The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-. .  (a) Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, that this claim is based on.  (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.  (c) Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account with justification.  (d) Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.  (e) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.  (f) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct. .  7. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated [xxxxxxx] namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request. .  By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. .  .............. or  Particulars of Claim  1.The claim is for the sum of 2470.56 in respect of monies owing pursuant to an overdraft facility under account number XXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX.  2.The debt was legally assigned by Santander UK Plc to the claimant and notice has been served.   3.The Defendant has failed to repay overdrawn sums owing under the terms and conditions of the bank account.   The Claimant claims:  The sum of 2470.56 Interest pursuant to s69 of the county courticon Act 1984 at a rate of 8.00 percent from the 7/04/2015 to the date hereof 14 days is the sum of 7.58Daily interest at the rate of .54  Costs Defence  The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant once having had banking facilities with the original creditor Santander Bank. It is denied that I am indebted for any alleged balance claimed.   2. Paragraph 2 is denied.I am not aware or ever receiving any Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon.   3. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Original Creditor has never served notice pursuant to 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974  Any alleged amount claimed could only consist in the main of default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbeyicon National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.  4. As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.  The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.  (a) Provide a copy agreement/overdraft facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception that this claim is based on.  (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.  (c) Provide a breakdown of all excessive charging/fees and show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.   (d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.  (e) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.  5. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated April 2015 namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request.   By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  Regards  Andy    
    • Hi   Just read your thread and looked at the Docs posted in your PDF.   1. from AST to rent a Car Parking space you need to have signed a Car Parking Agreement for a Space and for visitors you should have asked permission for another space in advance with a fee to pay. (i also assume renting a parking space would be at a cost)   2. You have no signed Car Parking Agreement nor visitor space agreement.   Did you not fully read that AST before you signed it and pick up what is stated about parking and ask them about this Car Parking Agreement and if you need one to park in the car park?   You could formally complain to them about what was verbally said to you but unless you have evidence of this it may be hard to prove.   You should also contact them and ask how you go about renting a Car Parking space/costs and about the Car Parking Agreement also what the process is for a visitor car parking space/costs.   You need to be aware that they could class you and your visitor as illegally parking in there car park without consent nor a signed car parking agreement which they could use as a Breach of your Tenancy Agreement so you need to be careful in how you are approaching this and where you are parking.   Just for info on checking Manchester Life website they have numerous buildings/apartments/car parks but you may be in a building where some of the apartments are leasehold and as part of there leasehold they may have purchased a car parking space in that building. (so how do you know you are not parking in a space that someone in the building has legally purchased?)
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Cabot/Mortimer old stayed Claim - old Yorkshire Bank overdraft - now produced paperwork - wanting settlement or back to

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Hi all,

 

Hoping for some advice if possible.

 

Early 2017 I received a claim form from Cabot for an old Yorkshire Bank overdraft debt

- I wasn't in the best position at the time but did manage to file a standard claim defence through MCOL and then was told it would be sent back to the client to review.

Heard nothing and am now in a much better situation

 

out the blue approx a week ago I received a letter from the solicitors with the documentation I had requested in my claim defence etc.

I have attached a copy of the letter they have sent me and they have also sent full bank statements, notices of charges and a notice of assignment.

 

The claim is for approx £1000 - £875 from the account and the rest in solicitor fees.

 

As a bit of context,

the account was held from 2013-2014 and I had a serious gambling addiction at the time,

essentially any money I received I was spending straight away on gambling.

 

I had a current account with Yorkshire Bank with no agreed overdraft,

yet I was constantly able to go several hundreds of pounds overdrawn,

and of course the fees made this worse.

 

Based on the bank statements they sent,

I accrued approx £850 of bank charges in the 10/11 months I used the account (these were at £25 per charge for unplanned overdraft and a couple of £35 returned DD).

 

Note the final balance now is not just charges as some of these were paid off during using the account.

I was in a cycle where I would be overdrawn,

credit the account and return to a positive balance,

then be allowed to go overdrawn on gambling transactions and

then charges would be added and the cycle would repeat,

until I ended up so deep overdrawn I abandoned the account.

 

Towards the end I was able to go over £600 overdrawn in gambling transactions,

and then £185 fees were also added to this as well as extra debit interest that accumulated.

 

The letter states they would like to settle without further court proceedings and that I can propose a repayment plan.

After some research online I believe one option to me would be to submit a formal complaint to Yorkshire Bank about the charges and my financial situation at the time and how I was constantly able to go overdrawn by a large amount, and if necessary go on to the Ombudsman after.

 

Do you think this is a good approach, and would it stop Mortimer wanting to proceed with court action whilst the complaint is considered?

I am of course open to any other suggestions!

 

Thanks a lot and sorry for the long read, please let me know if any more info is required.

 

Attached:

Letter received today

Statement of amount owed

One of the bank statements (towards the end of the account) as an example - can see it started OD, went into credit, then ended more OD than it started

 

(unfortunately i no longer have copy of original claim form or my defence - trying to access MCOL to retrieve these but wasn't thinking straight enough to keep a log of my details when this all started a couple of years ago)

 

Thanks for any advice

Edited by dx100uk
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please complete this:

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-2018**(2-Viewing)-nbsp

 

and pop all those scans into ONE multipage PDF please

 

else well be here all day downloading single pages and putting our screens on their side

 

can you also post up the defence you filed

 

pers i'd not do anything unless you get a N244 to lift the stay

sounds like a begging letter to me!!


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sorry not sure why some ended up sideways. Will sort and re-upload with that info above shortly. thanks

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Used a site online to combine into a PDF - hopefully that makes it easier!

 

Re copy of the defence, I'm trying to regain access to the MCOL website to access it and just waiting for help getting my user ID so I can login and retrieve this

 

Qs and As:

 

Name of the Claimant? Cabot

 

Date of issue - Feb 2017

 

Particulars of Claim -

 

"Monies due under current account overdraft.

1.THe claimant's claim is for the balance outstanding under a Bank account facility Yorkshire Bank agreed to maintain for the defendant. It was a term of the Bank account that any debit balance would be repayable by the Defendant in full on demand. The defendant has failed to repay the amount due. The debt was assigned to the Claimant."

 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Can't remember

What is the total value of the claim? £1005

 

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Overdraft

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After, May 2013

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. - Cabot

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? - Yes

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? - Not sure, don't think so

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? Not sure, don't think so

 

Why did you cease payments? Couldn't afford, went too deep into unplanned overdraft and couldn't afford to get account bank into credit, redirected wages to new account

What was the date of your last payment? Account stopped being used in Feb 2014

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management planicon? No

Thank you

jpg2pdf (1).pdf

Edited by dx100uk
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So you could propose a reasonable payment plan that is affordable to yourself......or you simply ignore their letter and wait and see if they make application to lift the stay and proceed to trial and take your chance.

 

If there was no agreed overdraft facility...which the letter confirms..then in theory you couldn't be allowed to go into overdraft as any transaction would be declined.

It could be argued that the Bank as allowed this to happen to maximise charges and interest..and therefore created the debt by its own volition.

 

But its your choice on how to handle it.

 

Regards

 

Andy


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Thanks for the advice.

 

I had considered making a repayment offer based on the actual amount I went overdrawn through my own transactions, minus any charges that had been applied by Yorkshire Bank

- but after looking over at it in total I was charged about £850 of bank fees so there would only be £25 or so left (based on original amount of 875 OD).

 

The bank charges do seem incredibly excessive and looking back at it now I do feel I was exploited a bit, or rather that they could have done more and that their actions in allowing me to go hundreds of pounds overdrawn and then adding hundreds of pounds of fees did make my financial situation considerably worse.

 

If I didn't offer any repayment plan or reply, their next step is likely to be a N244 claim to lift the stay and proceed to court I'd assume?

 

In this case does it seem to make sense to make a complaint to Yorkshire Bank/Ombudsman about the situation and the lack of overdraft, informing Mortimer of this (assuming they would wait until the outcome of complaint to lift the stay) and then seeing how it progresses?

 

If the complaint wasn't upheld then I would then have to offer a repayment plan I assume or go to court and try a similar defence

Edited by dx100uk
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Did you have the A/C before you start gambling

Pers id await the n244

 

If its 90% charges i cant see the judge making you pay those re the OFT stuff


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No i was already gambling when I opened the account, for a couple of years prior

 

The £850 charges includes those that have effectively already been paid on each monthly statement, in the last month or 2 of using the account I think the account went to -650 via transactions and then went up to 875 with charges added on. Some charges were added in previous months but then the account was put back into credit the following month and so on so I'm not sure if that counts

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i was thinking irresponsible lending but as it had no OD? Cant use that??


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Yes if i made a complaint to FOS/Yorkshire Bank it would be based on that they shouldn't have let me go overdrawn significantly as I had PDL defaults prior to this account also and therefore irresponsible lending,

 

but from research online there seems to be varying stories about whether this would be covered as there was no planned overdraft,

but surely with no overdraft (and it would certainly have been rejected if overdraft applied for)

it is irresponsible to allow to make transactions to go £600 overdrawn

Edited by dx100uk
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agreed give it a go see our IRL guide


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IRL would apply in this case... No suitable safeguard was put in place to prevent this from happening - They are still *LENDING* you the money through the form of an Unarranged OD which is clearly defined in the terms of the Original Acc Agreement.

On top of that look at PDL stuff too...

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Link to irl is in the post above in purple


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Great, thank you for the advice I will go down this route and let you know how it progresses.

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It wont progress until they make application to lift the stay...their letter may be a bluff to get you to react.....do nothing for now.


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Thanks for the advice, ideally it is a bluff!

 

By do nothing for now do you mean I shouldn't make a irresponsible lending complaint or that I should make a complaint but don't do anything to reply to Mortimer (not even advise them it's under complaint)?

 

Thanks

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yes

and yes

 

make an IRL complaint

 

ignore cabot/mort

 

unless you get an N244


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Hi, just as an update on this I went through an irresponsible lending complaint to Yorkshire Bank and then referred it to the ombudsman, this unfortunately wasn't upheld.

 

Mortimer have sent a letter last week - a basic letter that said they haven't had any contact from me for a long time and so the client has requested that if there is no contact in the next 14 days that the stay on the court order will be lifted and proceedings will continue. The letter then ended by advising that the client is still willing to set up a repayment plan etc and to get in touch with a proposal.

 

I was planning on doing nothing and waiting to see whether they are trying to call my bluff or not, i.e. wait to get a notice that the stay has been lifted. If this happens I'm assuming this means it goes to court? My other options are to write back just to confirm that I intend to defend this in line with the original defence i submitted, or secondly to make a very low settlement offer and see if they'll accept it just to stop the hassle....any thoughts welcome and appreciated

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Your choice...but dont be writing back informing them you intend to continue to defend.

 

So either continue to ignore and wait for an application or start a negotiation


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read the letter properly..doesn't say WILL anything

 

as for the FOS

 

is the letter from an adjudicator or from the ombudsman himself?


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thanks for both your replies

 

the letter says the client has instructed them to apply to lift the stay after 14 days if no contact.

 

The FOS letter is from the adjudicator, I have replied to contend the decision and am currently waiting to hear back before I assume it will be referred to the ombudsman

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instructed not WILL

I can instruct my new puppy to sit

if is DOES is a totally differing matter..ignore them.

 

good on the FOS.


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