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polar1882

Euro car parks ANPR PCN - MRH Esso meads Purfleet **WON AT POPLA**

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Hi guys i got a euro car park ticket by anpr for £100 for a unpaid 44 minute stayit was address to the keeper of the vehicle.

 

in the instance i had a massive tyre blowout which shredded my tyre entirely so i pulled into the Esso garage up teh road to wait for the AA.

 

i didnt notice the signage, i was busy trying to get the car moving again.

 

where do i stand, can i appeal it?

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Can you have a look at this thread please.

 

Copy and paste the relevant bits of that (along with your answers) to this thread so that we can see all the details.

 

Also, scan, redact and upload your NtK to the thread so that we can see what Euro Car Prats have inevitably got wrong.

 

 

Do nothing else (no appeal etc) until we've had a look at everything and give you some advice :thumb:


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For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

 

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement 16/7/2018

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 20/7/2018

 

3 Date received 2/8/2017 (may have arrived earlier, i have bene away for a week.)

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] Yes

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? number plate close up on entry and extit

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal]n

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] n/a

 

7 Who is the parking company? Euro car parks

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] MRH Esso meads Purfleet

Edited by DragonFly1967
Edited colours for contrast

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GSV Link (closest I could get) https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4861275,0.245761,3a,15y,248.51h,86.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAXcaT6RaikczpCcflgW5KA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

 

Not quite sure how on earth anyone is supposed to read that signage from a moving vehicle (at any speed). :|


We could use your help

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

 

 

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.

 

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Euro car parks always mess up. And 99% of the time its signage. The other 1% is paperwork


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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cool thanks ive appealed on signage, will update on receipt of response.

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Polar1882 on post 2 one of our experts said do not appeal until we have seen everything and advised you. There are several reasons for this.

1] by appealing the writer often gives themself away as being the driver. [eg I couldn't read the signs because they were too small]. It is the driver who parked but it is the keeper that these companies have to write to.

 

2] it is often not the font size of the sign that is wrong but what they have said in the small print that matters. In your case there may have been nothing wrong with what was stated in the small print on that sign. The main bones of contention may be on another of their signs or even on their NTK. By appealing at the wrong time they may well feel that you have insufficient knowledge about the subject and would feel that they would beat you in Court. Your appeal may have convinced them to take you to Court whereas had you waited and given them all the reasons why they had no chance against you they would probably have moved on to other motorists.

 

I can tell you now that your appeal will be rejected. While you are waiting, could you please post up the NTK and we definitely do need photos of the signs where you

you were parked . Then we will look at the wording to see if it can form a contract between the company and the motorist. Quite often it doesn't and it is that which will be a much stronger reason why they wouldn't go to Court rather than a font size on one sign.

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I hope that I didn't come across too harsh but beating these crooks takes time. Please read other threads on here especially ones where their circumstances are similar to yours or Euro carparks are involved and do not write to them again until all the info has been gathered.

 

One other thing, please check with the local Council to see if they have planning permission to have the signs erected and they are permitted to use ANPR. If they do not have it, their signs and cameras are there illegally. It comes under the Town and Country Act advertisements and planning approval for the ANPR.

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Fair enough. uploading the NTK now

 

i will take photos of the signs tomorrow, do i need to take measurements?

IMG_0315.pdf

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I've redacted that document properly for you :thumb:

 

No need for measurements, just get some good photos of the signs including their surroundings so that we can see them in context.


We could use your help

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

 

 

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.

 

If I've helped you at all, please feel free to click on the little star under my posts and leave feedback :)

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do they need plannng permisison if its within an esso petrol garage? the only plannig permisison application on the thurrock website for that postcode is the petrol station itself. ive enquired about the anpr and signs though.

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Worry about that later. Trust us. You can easily get rid of this. Just follow the advice given, and dont be tempted to jump ahead


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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I don't even think that as you were genuinely broken down that could be described as parking.

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agree to that,

the contract is for a parking event and that means as you couldnt move the car you cant consider their offer as being applicable.

 

They will of course say that you are pbliged to pay up because you saw the signs but still decided to break down on their land or whatever bull they wish to use to try and bludgeon the money out of you.

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Hi as expected had my appeal rejected. the sign they include in the appeal is not the sign on the entrance i used.

docs1.pdf

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I'm not sure what arguments you used but they seen to be addressing points that we wouldnt advise using and miss those that are relevant to your case.

 

This doesnt make then right though,

no signs where you entered mean they didnt have adequate signage and as said,

you were invited onto the land and broke down so that is not a breach of the conditions offered on the signs you didnt see.

 

You now ignore then and any dac who writes up to the poinjt where they threaten legal action and then you come back here for advice on what to put in a rebuttal letter.

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docs in post 16 sorted

thread tidied


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Hi

Just noticed something in their signage. 45 minutes free of charge! You were on site for 43 minutes 22 seconds. If they are stating that the sign is at this site, take them at their word. I would think that POPLA would throw allow an appeal as you will be appealing on matters of fact, not mitigation. AND where is the 10 minute grace period.

 

 

 

I think ECP may have problems with basic mathematics


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should i wait to use this in the rebuttal letter should it get that far?

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Well as they have rejected your appeal, you could go straight to POPLA and I suspect that ECP will capitulate when that happens.

 

 

You could also ignore them and wait to see if they try it on at court. Based upon the one sign, they would either lose or not even try it in the first place

 

 

Simple facts.

You did not breach any rules on the site in question

ECP did not allow you a grace period of a minimum 10 minutes. ( this bit is in the BPA code of practice)

 

 

As I see it, you were not in breach therefore ECP obtained your data from the DVLA without good reason. You could sue them under the GDPR


If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Thanks all POPLA appeal sent

Edited by polar1882

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Hi silverfox1961. As per my other thread i have a PCN same date, same place. I've checked the times on the number plate images and it totals 49mins 21secs. Just wondering about the 10 minute 'grace' time you've mentioned?

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On page nine of this

 

 

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/AOS_Code_of_Practice_January_2018.pdf (so long as the link works) there is mention of grace periods and what is expected of the operator.


If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Hi All Popla sent me this today:

 

An Appeal has been opened with the reference 241228****.

 

Euro Car Parks have told us they do not wish to contest the Appeal. This means that your Appeal is successful and you do not need to pay the parking charge.

thanks for all your help.

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