IDEM Claimform - HSBC Loan or was it?***Claim Discontinued***

[Tbirdo]

just a quick update on my witness statement. all advice appreciated

 

In The *******County Court

 

Claim No. *********

 

 ************** Claimant

and

*************** Defendant

 

 

I am the defendant in this case and make this Witness statement in support of my defence in this claim. The matters set out below are within my own knowledge, except where I indicate to the contrary.

 

1. It is my understanding that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct disputed or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much reduced cost to the amount claimed ...10p to 15p in the £1 and which the original creditors have already written off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income. Idem Capital securities issue claims to circumvent and claim the full amount of debt to maximise profit. 

 

 2. As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights. This means that when an assignee purchase’s debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information). The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party.

 

3. I accept I have in the past had financial dealings with HSBC. That being a Loan Agreement and a Current Account with overdraft facility, neither of which had a credit limit to the value the claimant purports to be allegedly outstanding. I do not recall the precise details of the agreements but do recall it was on or about the year 1998.

 

4. I had been paying regular monthly payments via a debt management company (************) up until xx/xx/2017, I ceased payments once I realised that I was being charged a fee to use they services.

 

5. After seeking advice this led me to check all paperwork I held with creditors, from this I could not find any Credit Agreement relating to the account the claimant is referring to.

 

6. I have therefore sought clarification and requested copies of the agreements from the claimant by way of a section 77 request and a request pursuant to sec 61 B of the CCA1974 for the amalgamated alleged amount.

 

(EXHIBIT 1)

 

7. A CPR 31.14 request pursuant to sec 61 B of the CCA1974 was sent 27/11/2018 via Royal Mail signed for and shows as received 29/11/2018. A Request for the following documents was made:

 

·         The Demand/Termination Notice (Notice served under section 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA 1974.

·         Notices of sums in arrears under running account credit CCA 2006 sec 86C. 

·         Notice of assignment 

·         A statement of account

 

(EXHIBIT 1A)

 

The documents that were finally received do not meet the criteria set out in section 61 B of the CCA 1974

To date No Demand/Termination Notice has ever been produced, no Notices of Sums in arrears has ever been produced. The notice of assignment does not appear to be an original, but a reconstruction of the original and no original has ever been received, the statement of account appears to be a generic copy and only start from 2007.

 

(EXHIBIT 2)

 

8. A Section 77 request was sent on 27/11/2018 via royal mail signed for and shows as received 28/11/2018. The claimant to date has failed to comply to my Section 77 request.

 

(EXHIBIT 2A)

 

The Claimant acknowledged by letter dated 13/12/2017 they were unable to supply a copy of the Credit agreement and have acknowledged that they are unable to enforce litigation action.

 

9.The claimant claims to have issued a Default Notice, and failed to mention a date that this was issued. I would like to point out that the claimant could not have possibly issued a Default Notice as they only bought the debt in xx/xx/2016 and as far as I can recall any breach with the original creditor would have been on or around 2009. The claimant as an assignee would not be able to legally issue a Default Notice as the debt would have already been terminated before assignment.

 

(EXHIBIT C)

 

I sought clarity of any Default Notice by the way of a CPR 31.14 request, sent via Royal mail signed for on 27/11/2018 and shows as received signed for 28/11/2018.The claimant has still yet to comply to my CPR 31.14 request with regard to clarity of any valid default notice issued, as yet I have never received an original or seen a copy of a valid default notice from the defendant.

 

10. This claim bought by the claimant is without merit and an abuse of court  process.

 

The claimant holds no valid documentation that can substantiate their claim this being:-

 

·         No Termination Notice

·         No Credit agreement and acknowledge they cannot supply one, and acknowledge that they are unable to enforce.

·         No valid default Notice

·         A Reconstituted Notice of assignment

 

It would be far gracious and forthright for the claimant to admit that all the paperwork is a collection of copy and pastes in an attempt to convince the court that the claimant can disclose the legal valid documents on which its claim relies on.

     

11. I contest that the documents I have received do not meet the requirements and prescribed terms of a legal binding credit agreement, and that the claimant has acknowledged that they are unable to produce an agreement and are unable to enforce.

 

Having regard to the above it is respectfully requested that the claimants application is denied.

 

 

I believe that the that the facts stated in the witness state are true

 

Signed........

 

Dated.......

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

I have tidied and formatted the layout ...and a few typos.The content is really your own words and evidence in support of your initial defence and therefore is not nessessary to add any further.

 

regards

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

point 9 defendant should read claimant??

The defendant claims to have issued a Default Notice

 

and 

 

fault notice from the defendant.

[AndyOrch]

Well spotted I left that to see if anyone would pick it up 

[dx100uk]

one final point

IS there a number in their original poc tbirdo?

 

whats its format and length...

 

just wondering if they are litigating on the OD balance [which is where HSBC dumped a debt before sale after making everything to a managed loan]

or if its actually a loan number

 

it was a long time ago, but I seem to remember citizenB working out that HSBC loan numbers were not the same format as the OD number [6for sort code+account number] they were an 11 digit number....just musing.

[Tbirdo]

Thank you Andy ,

Dx I shall get back to you when I finish work tonight 

[Tbirdo]

Hello there. In reply to your questions DX

 

Is there a number in the original POC ?

No, just they own reference number.

Post 23

 

What’s it’s format and length?

6 digit sort code and 8 digit acc number.

 

 

When I sent for a CCA request, the returned documents were for the current account I had with HSBC with terms & conditions. It was only then I realised (with the help from Andy & DX) that I never had an overdraft for that amount. 

 

Post 15 I sent a letter asking them to clarify which account they are pursuing me for, it was then that they disclosed that this was an overdraft account and a managed loan, both have got separate account numbers. It is obvious that HSBC dumped the loan into the overdraft and sold it on (SAR confirms this).

 

hope this helps

[AndyOrch]

May be prudent to drop in a further paragraph just to emphasise that it appears the claimant has amalgamated a loan agreement with a current account overdraft and trying to claim it all as an overdraft..this lets the court know that they have not disclosed the loan agreement and remain in default.

 

Reading the above its not clear from your statement what the claimant has actually tried to claim....or rather what they are trying to hide.

 

Andy

[Tbirdo]

Thanks Andy for your time.

This is what is confusing myself also.

 

In one letter they claim it that this account is in relation to a current account and loan account.

In another letter they claim that this account is in relation to an OD account.

They then acknowledge they cannot supply a credit agreement for the loan account. They then inform me it’s an OD account and to ring HSBC if I need more information.

After requesting a Default notice, they tell me that this covers both the OD account and loan account.

 

I will scan the mentioned letters if you need to see them. Please advise

 

 

[Tbirdo]

Hello there. 

 

10/2017 wrote letter asking for proof of any agreements with the claimant.

11/2017 replied back with this account in relation to OD account and LOAN account

both 6 digit sort codes and 8 digit account numbers present.

 

11/2017 wrote letter asking for agreements which they previously failed to provide.

12/2017 replied with unable to supply credit agreement and unable to enforce.

01/2018 replied with same letter as 11/2017

02/2018 First CCA request sent

02/2018 replied with OD account with OD limit, T & C included (2009) 

07/2018 PAP letter received 

08/2018 PAP letter sent along with asking for proof of agreement and credit limit for OD account

08/2018 replies with OD account with OD limit, T & C included (2009)

11/2018 claim form received with claimants own reference for the amalgamated amount, no mention of OD/Loan account.

11/2018 CPR OD account/ CPR loan account sent

12/2018 replied account is in relation to OD/Loan account both with account numbers. If you need further info ring hsbc

 

if you need to see any letters please advise. Hope this makes things clearer

 

[AndyOrch]

Yes i understand already the above........but what your not getting across in your statement the fact thats its been amalgamated...you need to add a final paragraph in your conclusion so the Court are fully aware of what the claimant is trying to enforce.  

[Tbirdo]

Thank you Andy. 

I will put that paragraph into the witness statement. I can’t thank you guys enough for all the support and advice

 

[AndyOrch]

Post it here let me see it first.

[Tbirdo]

Will do Andy , copies to be served by 15 July (14 days) before hearing. 

 

Waiting to to see if idem send anything. 

 

[Tbirdo]

good morning.

Hiya Andy, I have inserted the paragraph you suggested below, just after point 10.

is it ok here ? Do I need to add anything more ?

 

10. This claim bought by the claimant is without merit and just a way of abusing the court

        process.

 

The claimant holds no valid documentation that can substantiate their claim this being

·         No Termination Notice

·         No Credit agreement and acknowledge they cannot supply one, and acknowledge that they are unable to enforce.

·         No valid default Notice

·         A Reconstituted Notice of assignment

 

 I would also point out that it appears the claimant has amalgamated a loan agreement with a current account overdraft and is trying to claim it all as an overdraft, the claimant has to date still not disclosed the loan agreement and remains in default.

 

It would be far gracious and forthright for the claimant to admit that all the paperwork is a collection of copy and pastes in an attempt to convince the court that the claimant can disclose the legal valid documents on which its claim relies on.

     

 

any opinions always welcome

thank you

[AndyOrch]

10. The claimant has amalgamated a loan agreement with a current account overdraft and is trying to claim it all as an overdraft, the claimant has to date still not disclosed the loan agreement requested pursuant to section 77 CCA1974 and remains in default and unable to enforce the agreement.

 

It intentionally misleads the court that a current account overdraft existed of this limit and it is denied that I have held an Overdraft facility of that amount.

 

Therefore for the above reasons the claim bought by the claimant is without merit and an abuse of the court process.

 

 

[Tbirdo]

Thank you Andy, 

[Tbirdo]

A quick update. 

I have just received a letter of discontinuance.

 

”we do not consider your defence holds any legal merit, however we have made a decision to discontinue proceedings. A notice of discontinuance is attached for you reference, we confirm this has today been filed with the ####### court.

 

however your outstanding debt remains and owing and idem reserves it’s right in that respect”

 

Do I ring the courts to make sure ?

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Is the letter a N279 ?  You could ring if you wish but its unlikely the court will have received and processed it yet .

 

Thread title amended to reflect the outcome.

Please consider a donation to help us continue to help others such as yourself.

 

Well done 

 

Andy 

[Tbirdo]

Yes Andy N279 form

 

Donations all the way 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

told ya!

 

well done

 

dx

[Tbirdo]

So a BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

 

I would also like to say a very big THANK YOU to Andy & DX who really helped me see this case through to the very end. Without your help, advice, and patience I don’t when this nightmare would have ended. I will forever be grateful. Thank you again. 

 

This is the best forum I have ever been a part of, absolutely fantastic community, very friendly and helpful, no matter what time of day you always get advice. 

 

I hope my donations will help you and others in need of advice.

 

so for other people reading this thread or any thread, my advice would be please do your own research within the CAG forums and get as much information as you can. Yes the people on here will advise but you need to digest the procedures and paperwork that goes with each case. Thanks to CAG I now know how to prepare a defence and was also preparing a witness statement. One of my favourite DX quotes 

“CAG is self help also”

( hope you dont mind DX me using that )

 

is an understatement.

 

so once again a big thank you.

[dx100uk]

we are not with you on the day.

for that very reason

it is very much an understated understatement.

 

but as you've experienced throughout this thread...

 

no we wont desert you..

you could be our biggest pain ever

we could use all the tools in our 'toolbox' to make you understand things..

and we will..

 

we must empower you..whatever it takes

[fredsed]

I have spent hours on here reading any number of threads and the actions of DX, Andyorch  are amazing. How on earth you guys find the time to deal with all the threads is beyond me but thank goodness you do. You are brilliant! For those of us who suffer the stress and anxiety of debt but have been lucky enough to find this forum you are a god send. Well done Tbirdo for fighting hard and not letting the DCA lowlifes rob you!

 

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by fredsed

[Tbirdo]

Thank you fredsed. 

Totally agree with your comments about Andy & DX absolutely amazing people.