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Tbirdo

IDEM Claimform - HSBC Loan or was it?***Claim Discontinued***

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Hello there, this is an update of my original debt management thread.

 

HSBC loan taken out pre 2007

Defaulted 2009 (credit file clear)

 

02/2018 CCA request sent to Idem

Idem acknowledge copy of agreement is no longer available and are aware that they are unable to enforce litigation action on this account.

 

07/2018

Idem have replied with a new letter.

We have now complied with your CCA request and enclose a copy of the executed agreement.

Just a print out of terms and conditions (O.D. Terms and conditions) not the loan.

 

08/2018

They have now sent me a PAP letter aswell

 

 

I will be filling out the PAP from the link I got from Andy.

 

Any thoughts and advice is appreciated

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If you could scan redact and upload what they have sent you.

 

Andy


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Hiya Andy

 

They have just sent me a print out of

1. Current account terms and conditions (3 pages)

2. Current account and savings account terms and conditions

3. A list of transactions of the payments I was making

 

There is nothing else , if you still want the scan and upload I will do that

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So nothing in connection to the loan...which I assume the PAP is directed to ?


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Yes nothing in connection with the loan at all. Interestingly I have noticed that they are using the same O.D account number on my credit card account thread aswell.

 

Looks like they have no paperwork and are suggesting that this is an O.D. Account

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Do you have or had an overdraft with this number ?

 

Perhaps the PAP is with regards to your overdraft...assuming you have/had one ?


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Yes Andy I did have an O.D account with that number and it had a £1500 limit on it, now this loan account with the amount they are claiming that is still owed is £9000.

 

While I was on my debt management plan with debt movers that were paying my accounts (HSBC) with the following amounts

 

HSBC O.D. £6

HSBC C.C. £35

HSBC LOAN £95

 

So each account was getting a payment. Idem however have somehow merged the O.D with either the C.C or loan they can’t make they minds up

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Hi,

Maybe one of the more experienced members might know more details, but as I remember....

HSBC / First Direct for a period of time from 2007 onwards, combined loans and CC's into Current accounts so that it appeared the current account was £1000's overdrawn instead of having a current account & loan/cc account separate.

There was much discussion on here about the errors of doing so as it removed some of the consumer rights under CCA 1975.

I'm my experience they bundled a £8000 CC into a £300 o/d current account. At the time I challenged them, they told me to clear off!

I think I remember some contributors saying this could cause issues if taken to court?

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Okay so on your PAP inform them you have never had an overdraft with a £9K limit and if they intend to proceed with this they will be expected to disclose all relevant documentation and statements referring to current account number xxxxxxx sort number xxxxx.

 

Ask them to provide a copy of the facility agreement... credit limit.....etc pursuant to sec 61 B of the CCA1974.

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/61B


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Thanks for reply me too.

These accounts were not merged when HSBC had them, when the first DCA had these accounts I was still paying 3 accounts

 

DCA Metropolitan paying 3 Accounts

DCA Brittannica. Paying 3 accounts

DCA Moorgate/idem paying 2 accounts

 

Looks like they have merged the O.D and loan account together .

 

Going through some idem paperwork and found a letter where they write this account is in relation to an O.D facility and a personal loan both with HSBC account numbers

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Well they should litigate on them separately ...its okay to amalgamate but it must be plead separate with each account/agreement number relied upon.

 

Any claim they propose to instigate will become very messy if they wish to rely on the current account reference for the full amount.


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Thanks Andy

I will fill out PAP and write up a letter as you have advised. Can I post it up for you to look at ?

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Thanks Andy

I will fill out PAP and write up a letter as you have advised. Can I post it up for you to look at ?

 

Sure...a bit of reverse psychology goes a long way by informing them you know what they have done and that it will be challenged . :wink:


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Hello there. This is a draft of the letter I intend to send to idem

 

Dear idem

 

In reply to your letter dated xxxxx I would like for you to clarify which account you are pursuing me for. The account you have listed in your letter is an overdraft account.

I have never had an account with an overdraft limit of £9000 which you are claiming. If you do intend to proceed with further action you are reminded that you are expected to disclose all relevant documentation and statements referring to account xxxxxx sort code xxxxxx.

 

I also require you to provide me with the following :

 

1. copy of the facility agreement

2. credit limit.

 

pursuant to sec 61 B of the CCA1974.

 

1. Where an authorised business overdraft agreement or an authorised non-business overdraft agreement has been made, a document containing the terms of the agreement must be given to the debtor.

 

2. The creditor must provide the document referred to in subsection (1) to the debtor before or at the time the agreement is made unless—

 

(a) the creditor has provided the debtor

with the information referred to in regulation 10(3) of the Consumer Credit (Disclosure of Information) Regulations 2010, in which case it may be provided after the agreement is made,

 

(b) the creditor has provided the debtor with the information referred to in regulation 10(3)©, (e), (f), (h) and (k) of those Regulations, in which case it must be provided immediately after the agreement is made, or

 

© the agreement is an agreement of a description referred to in regulation 10(4)

(b) of those Regulations, in which case it must be provided immediately after the agreement is made.

 

3. If the requirements of this section are not observed, the agreement is enforceable against the debtor on an order of the court only (and for these purposes a retaking of goods or land to which the agreement relates is an enforcement of the agreement).

 

 

I look forward to your reply

 

Yours sincerely

 

Tbirdo

 

 

 

 

 

Any thoughts and advice appreciated

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Thanks Andy,

 

PAP form filled out

Box D. I dispute the debt

Box I . I require the following documents

 

Shall I send the letter with the PAP form ?

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Just a quick update.

I have received a letter from idem

 

“Your account has been transferred to our litigation department in connection with the outstanding balance. Unless proposals to clear your account balance are received in the next 7 days, we will issue proceedings without further recourse to you.”

 

I have received nothing from idem since I sent off the PAP letter.

 

I just wanted to ask is this normal procedures ?

 

Reading through other threads I guess this is what happens .

 

Any advice is always appreciated

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Wait for the court claim it is then Andy

Thanks

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The court claim has arrived along with a default notice which looks like the original HSBC issued me with in 2009.

 

 

Name of the Claimant ?

IdemCapital Securities

 

Date of issue

19/11/2018

 

 

 

Particulars of Claim

 

1) An agreement between HSBC and defendant/s (D) to standard terms and conditions

 

2) Claimant © purchased the debt 06/10/2016

 

3)It was a term of the agreement that if any instalment was not paid on due date, C would be entitled to repayment of outstanding balance of total amount payable, less (on payment)any rebate to which D might be entitled.

 

4) D failed to pay instalments due, C issued a Default Notice requesting payment D failed to pay the sums due, which consequently became immediately due and payable, Formal Demand issued dated 05/11/2018

 

5) D has failed to pay the outstanding balance 0f £9000

 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ?

No

 

What is the total value of the claim?

£8500 + £500 court and legal fees

 

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account?

Loan

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ?

Before 2007

 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ?

No

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.

Debt purchaser Idem Capital Securities

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

I don't remember receiving this information

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?

Yes

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ?

Yes

 

Why did you cease payments?

Financial difficulties due to hours cut at work

What was the date of your last payment?

08/2017

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?

No

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan?

yes I did communicate with HSBC who were unable to accept lower payments, therefore I entered into on a debt management agreement with a debt management company

 

 

 

 

 

Will I need to send a CPR31.14 request to the solicitors ? (Looks like Idems in house solicitors , same address)

 

Am I right in logging on to the MCOL website as well ? followed one of dx links

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.

.

register as an individual

note the long gateway number given

then log in

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

 

Thanks for all the help

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Yes to all the above and a further CCA section 77 request......

 

Their particulars are vague as with regards to the overdraft or loan or in fact whatever they are claiming for.

 

Thread moved to Financial Legal Issues Forum in view of the claim received.

 

 

Andy


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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Thanks Andy for quick reply, will get onto the Further CCA section 77, and CPR requests over the weekend.

Edited by dx100uk
quote

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