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UKPC Windscreen PCN - Trowbridge, St Stephens place - Fallen valid ticket - appeal rejected by UKPC and POPLA


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Hi there!

 

I would like to ask for some advice.

 

I found a similar case (same place, same issue) to mine in this forum and would like to know what was the outcome.

 

Or I'm looking for some solution from someone more clever than me.

 

I parked my car in the St Stephens car park in Trowbridge end of May.

 

I purchased my free three hours ticket (still have the ticket) and put on the dashboard in a visible place.

Shutting the door moved the ticket further down and fell under the windscreen wiper (not fully visible, but definitely there).

 

I had an hour meeting at Nandos (I'm a manager there) and when I was leaving I realised I got the yellow bag with a parking charge.

 

I appealed straight away. UKPC rejection response came three weeks later.

I appealed with POPLA risking my parking charge to be £100.

POPLA closed the case today with another rejection.

 

Im a manager at Nandos, work in Trowbridge restaurant quite often.

I am fully aware of the rules of that particular car park.

 

My girlfriend is from Trowbridge, we visit the cinema and town shops and we always use this carpark.

Why wouldn't I purchase a free ticket and risk a parking charge if I know the rules?

 

I could pay the £100, but I don't think I have been treated fairly in this case.

I just don't feel I did break the rules of that car park.

Don't think it's okay.

 

My question is:

 

- What shall I do next?

 

- Do I need to be worried if I decide not to pay?

 

- How likely is me to go to court?

 

thanks for the help, it means a lot

Edited by dx100uk
fine replced parking charge
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1st

where does it say FINE on any of the paperwork please?

 

2nd

 

complete this please

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

 

3rd

post up your appeals to them and popla please

 

read upload ONE multipage PDF only please

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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1. It doesn't say fine. Its a parking charge [now changed - dx]

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....

 

1 The date of infringement? 26/05/2018

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] Yes (the same day)

 

if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide

 

has there been a response? Yes, see attachment (response from UKPC)

please post it up as well, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

what date is on it

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence?

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?]

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

 

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances] Yes, they did and I appealed to POPLA

 

5 Who is the parking company? UKPC

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? St Stephens Place Leisure, Trowbridge, BA14 8AH

......................... ....

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here: I received a rejection letter from POPLA

 

copy the windscreen or ANPR section to your thread and answer the questions...

 

 

3.Letter from POPLA

 

Decision

Unsuccessful

Assessor Name

Michael Byrne

Assessor summary of operator case

 

The operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) as the appellant parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket

Assessor summary of your case

 

The appellant’s case is that they placed a valid parking ticket on the dashboard of their vehicle on the date of the parking incident, although they also concede that this may have blew off.

 

 

The appellant advises that they are familiar with the car park and the conditions of parking and would therefore not risk receiving a PCN for the sake of printing out a free parking ticket.

 

Assessor supporting rational for decision

When entering private land, motorists are expected to comply with the terms and conditions.

The operator has provided images of the signage laid out at the site.

 

 

The terms and conditions of the site state:

“First 3 hours parking free, only if ticket is displayed...A Valid pay and display ticket must be clearly displayed at all times...

Failure to comply with the following at any time will result in a £100 Parking Charge”.

 

 

The operator has issued the PCN as the appellant parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket The operator has provided photographic evidence of vehicle .....J parked between 09:05 and 09:16 from a number of different angles.

 

 

The appellant’s case is that they placed a valid parking ticket on the dashboard of their vehicle on the date of the parking incident, although they also concede that this may have blown off.

 

 

The appellant advises that they are familiar with the car park and the conditions of parking and would therefore not risk receiving a PCN for the sake of printing out a free parking ticket.

 

 

I do not doubt that the appellant is familiar with the terms and conditions of the car park and will have printed out a free parking ticket.

 

 

However, the photographs that the operator has provided of the appellant’s vehicle from a number of different angles show that the ticket was not on display at the time that the parking warden viewed the vehicle.

 

 

The photographs include images of the dashboard of the appellant’s vehicle.

Although it is possible that the ticket blew off the appellant’s dashboard as suggested, it was the appellant’s responsibility to ensure that they had parked in accordance with the terms and conditions of the car park.

 

 

This required the appellant to ensure that their parking ticket was visible at all times and double check that it had not blown off the dashboard before leaving the vehicle.

 

 

As the appellant failed ensure that their parking ticket was displayed, they have failed to comply with the terms and conditions of parking. Accordingly, I conclude that the operator has correctly issued the PCN.

appeal reply UKPCS.pdf

Edited by dx100uk
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I have redacted your letter

you didn't remove pers details

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi bangli80 welcome to the forum.

These people live on another planet to the rest of us. Please do not lose your ticket as this is proof that you did purchase a ticket and that the greedy parking company did not lose any money-so why are they pursuing you? Just sheer greed and POPLA are mostly as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

 

The good news is that they only take a very small amount of people to Court-less than 1 percent. The bad news is that unknowingly your quick appeals may give them reason to think that enough pressure will force you to cave in and pay up. Partly because you will have divulged that not only are you the registered keeper [and it is difficult to sue the keeper as it is the driver who caused the problem]you have no doubt let them know that you were the driver on the day in the way that you appealed. And the other reason is that they think that by appealing too early you do not understand how these things work. [You do not normally appeal and when you do it is after you receive the Notice to Keeper].

 

Incidentally from their photos is it possible to make out that your ticket though obscure, was visible or did they take the images in such a way as to

hide the ticket completely?

 

Forget about them increasing the debt by another £60-that is in breach of the OFT Guidelines on Debt Collecting which even though the OFT no longer exist, the BPA confirm that they will comply with the guidelines and also under POFA the most they can charge is the amount on their car park notices.

 

However before these crooks can legitimately ask for money there are a number of hurdles they have to cross and they rarely get them all which is

good news for you.

 

First their notices have to be compliant with POFA and must be clear and not contradict each other.

Second they require permission from the local Council to erect their Notices under the Town and Country Act [advertisements]. Check with the Council as without that their Notices are probably illegal.

 

Then they require a contract from the land owner to be able to issue parking tickets and to be able to take motorists to Court.

 

If you could post up the NTK and please return to that car park and take photographs of all their notices and the rules on their ticket machine also.

 

In addition does Nandos not have any sway over UKPC since were the same thing to happen to one of their customers that could be enough to drive that customer to a restaurant elsewhere in future.

 

Bear in mind that you are not operating on a level playing field with these guys. They are not there to keep the land clear of motorists who are not patronising the businesses in the car park, they are there to make as much money as they can from everyone they can. They lie in Court, they charge motorists for "offences" that they have already lost against other motorists in previous Court cases and they lie that they have all the necessary permissions when they sometimes have none of them. You are dealing with crooks- they are not honest businessmen.

 

Whoever took them on to run the car park was badly advised and sadly most of the other big companies in that line of business are no different.

 

One other thing [sorry I am going on too long]. You said in your first post that you thought the ticket may have moved

to under the windscreen wiper. Yet you said in your appeals that you supposed the ticket had blown off the dashboard.

Why the discrepancy? It would have made your appeal that much stronger had you stuck to what you said in your first post.

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here is a bit of advice, in future never appeal a private parking ticket until you have taken advice. UKPC were banned from accessing the DVLA database so if you hadnt contacted them that would have been the end of the matter in this instance as they would have had no way of contacting you as the keeper of the vehicle and it would be a strange business model to employ people to just stand there for months on end hoping to hand a letter to the driver of a vehicle they had in their sights 29-56 days before..

 

 

Now we need to see the signage at the car park and also we need to know exactly what their ticket said you had done wrong as often they accuse peopel of breaching conditions that dont exist.

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Guys! Thanks a lot for your help.

As you can see, I'm a bit "green" in this field and was panicking, cos a knew I had the ticket and wouldn't cheat on a free parking (why anyone would think that?)

 

I will post the photos what they took of my car and I can send you the photos of the car park rules (I think they posted that to me too).

The parking ticket doesnt have a sticky back, its just a little piece of paper (could easily fell over or hide under the windscreen wiper).

 

Nandos as a restaurant there has ONE free ticket for 5 managers and 30 empolyees (crazy), obviously not everyone is driving, but still.

I was just visiting the restaurant and wasnt planning to stay longer than two hours.

 

I didn't remember properly where the ticket gone (fell over or went under the windscreen viper) when I did my appeal and I think because of the panic I was writing it quickly, believing a short appeal will be enough to win this case. I was wrong.

 

I will post up some photos

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Photographs redacted and converted to PDF

 

Question for the OP. What is that in the top nearside corner of your windscreen?

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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  • 2 weeks later...

had to hide those they are not PDF

and the letter has pers info showing

please pop them ALL in ONE multipage PDF

and re upload

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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