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    • correct a DCA has zero legal powers. you don't need any 'legal powers' to issue a court claim..you or i can do that if we think someone owes us money, thats what the courts a are therefor, so a DCA thus has no more or less legal powers that you or i.   people end up getting backdoor CCJ's because they do not update their debt owners of their correct and current address. you are abroad, you are also lucky (or unlucky in terms of a uk asset) someone lives in the only? UK address they could use.... you say you'd get the mail or notification anyway...so...    
    • Thanks very much dx   Not sure if your saw my comment re the budgeting as think we may have crossed.   Can they start reporting on my credit file again? I really cant have that happen. Is this a risk.   The conundrum is - if I settle them now for say 30% of the debt thats around 5k. If I end up having to pay them thru court action then just a few could be that much. I suppose thats a gamble.   when they do a letter of claim, I am guessing we then ask for a CCA. If they can provide it do I have the opportunity to pay if necessary before getting a CCJ or it reported again on my credit file?
    • Sorry forgot to mention. When filling out the financial situation to get the stepchange payment low I was very economical with the the truth. I dont want this to be an issue as I am worried about that.
    • pers i'd just stop paying the whole plan. you've been had from day one on all of them.   as long as stepchange has your correct and current address. just sit back and await the deforestation that comes thru your door. i'm of the opinion now that for DMP's of this historic age now its far batter to simply stop paying the whole plan and IGNORE everyone, rather than sending CCA's requests etc etc, until or unless someone sends a letter of claim relating to any of the debts that wrre in the plan.   then comeback here and we'll deal with it as we do.   the most important thing to ensure is that the DMP provider does have you correct and current address (p'haps do this in a letter to them stating you ae now cancelling the plan and stopping their mass DD).   dx
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I suspect the bus ticket inspector deleted my oyster card journey history - bus penalty fare


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Two weeks ago I boarded a bus at around 8:00am in London.

I got off the bus a few stops later to head into a local Tesco store to buy my lunch for the day.

I then walked back to the bus stop that I got off at and waited for the next bus to take me to work.

 

The next bus arrived at 8:30am.

It was one of those buses where passengers can board the bus on either the front, middle or back door.

I boarded the bus from the back door.

 

I sat downstairs and minded my own business, staring through the window and browsing on my phone.

A few minutes later, I heard a bus ticket inspector saying "tickets please" and that was when I was made aware that a ticket inspector was on board the bus.

I got out my oyster card ready for him to scan it with the card reader.

 

When he placed his card reader against my card, he asked me to take out my oyster card from the cardholder.

I thought the reason why he wanted me to take out my card from the cardholder was because the cardholder was preventing his card reader from checking whether I had tapped in.

 

However, when he then said "it appears you haven't tapped in for this journey",

I realised to my horror that I had in fact forgotten to tap in when I boarded this bus, so I told him that I forgot to.

 

then got out a small note pad and asked me to write down my name, address and date of birth, to which he used it to confirm that the card really does belong to me and he asked me to show him an ID that has my name on it and where did I board this bus and which stop I was planning to get off at.

 

He then told me that he was going to issue me a penalty fare of £40 for not tapping in.

I said to him that if you look at my journey history you will be able to see that I had previously boarded a bus at 8:00am and that if you look at the time now you can see that it's 8:35am, which means that under the Hopper Fare scheme, I would not have been charged for this journey anyway because I boarded this bus within the hour and hence I was not intentionally fare dodging.

However, he said "you still need to tap in anyway" and proceeded to issue me with a penalty fare.

 

He then handed me the bus penalty fare notice and asked me how I would like to settle it.

I asked him “what options do I have?”

He said that I need to pay £40 for the penalty.

 

Because I needed to get off the next stop and I was late for work, I asked if I can pay later.

He then said that if I don't pay now, it would be £80.

 

However, having had a careful read through the notice, I realised that he omitted saying that if you don't pay within 21 days, then the penalty would go up to £80, it will be £40 if you pay within 21 days, so I thought there was some deliberate scaremongering on his part.

 

When I got back home from work that day,

I had a careful read through the penalty notice slip and read that I have a right to appeal against it.

 

I decided to appeal on the grounds that I boarded a previous bus at 8:00am and how under the Hopper Fare scheme, I wouldn't have been charged anything for this second bus that I got on at 8:30am because I boarded it within the hour.

 

i logged onto my oyster card account to get a screenshot of my journey history for that day to go with the appeal claim so that they can see that I did get on a bus at 8:00am in the hopes that they would be lenient about it and therefore waive the fee.

 

However, I was very shocked to see that there was no record of me getting on the first bus at 8:00am!

All the other trains and buses that I got on for that day were there apart from this 8:00am record of me getting on a bus.

 

I definitely remember tapping in for this journey and hearing a beep and seeing the green light because I got on it from the front door and there was a bit of a hold up because there was a passenger in front of me in the queue who asked the driver whether this was the bus that goes to so and so.

 

This had me suspecting whether the bus ticket inspector may have deleted this particular bus journey history from my account so that I don't stand a chance from getting a successful appeal. T

he more I think back to it, the more I suspect that he had something to do with it.

He kept hold of my oyster card throughout the journey and didn't give it back to me until I told him that I was getting off at the next stop.

 

And during that time, I was not sitting facing him, he was standing behind me, so I suspect that he might have had a check through my journey history and used his card reader to delete this 8:00am bus journey history or colluded with the person on the phone who was checking to confirm my details to have it deleted off the system.

 

Maybe it's just simply a case of coincidence

- that it turns out there was a technical fault with the yellow oyster card reader on the first bus which meant that it didn't make a record of me tapping in.

Otherwise, it sure is very sinister and sly of them to do this

- they can make money out of innocent people.

 

it makes me wonder if these inspectors have a quota to fill or an incentive or a commission awarded for catching fare dodgers?

 

I'm wondering if there's anyone here who has been through a similar situation as me

– I would like to hear your experience,

and does anyone here know whether it's possible that your journey history can be deleted by an oyster card reader used by a ticket inspector?

Edited by dx100uk
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I have to consider what is more likely:

 

A) there is a conspiracy to issue penalty fares, and the staff go around deleting Oyster card histories without creating an audit trail, and no one has noticed

B) having not tapped in on the second bus, you might have not tapped in on the first, and heard a beep / saw a green light for someone else’s card (or had ‘card clash’ with one of your own cards - have you checked the statements for all your other contactless cards?

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no it is not possible to wipe individual data.

and no they would never do that its called FRAUD!! and could end him up in prison.

there are no quotas..old wives tale.

 

sadly I suspect you didn't tap in sadly

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I have to consider what is more likely:

 

A) there is a conspiracy to issue penalty fares, and the staff go around deleting Oyster card histories without creating an audit trail, and no one has noticed

B) having not tapped in on the second bus, you might have not tapped in on the first, and heard a beep / saw a green light for someone else’s card (or had ‘card clash’ with one of your own cards - have you checked the statements for all your other contactless cards?

 

 

It wasn't a contactless card and my cardholder was only storing the blue oyster card. This has never happened before where a bus or train journey has not been recorded on my journey history, hence why it felt like it was too much of a coincidence and had me suspicious.

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Oyster uses RFID. Were/Are there any other cards in the same holder as your Oyster card that also have RFID tags in them? Credit, Debit, Work ID cards, anything like that?

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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The inspector cannot delete the journey history and they're not on commission.

The journey history sometimes doesn't update online until next day.

 

Check today and if no joy, check on one of the ticket machines at any underground station.

If the journey is there you have grounds for appeal,

 

however, the penalty fare was issued correctly because even on the hopper fare scheme you are required to scan your card.

 

Same as daily capping, once you reach it, you still tap the card but you don't get charged.

 

Tfl are quite lenient in these situations, so if you were not going to be charged for that journey they might cancel the penalty fare.

 

Don't accuse the bus inspector to tampering with the oyster because that would be seen as a complaint which will go back to him/her.

 

Inevitably the bus inspector would get the union involved and they might even start proceedings for defamation.

 

My brother is in a transport union and followed 2 cases in the past year.

In one of them tfl was refusing to disclose the complainant's name, but they had to eventually.

 

Both cases were taken to county court, unlike what I thought that only high court hears such cases.

 

They never reached the judge because the cases were withdrawn following out of court agreement.

 

Don't know if money exchanged hands, but surely the passengers making the malicious complaints would now think twice before accusing someone of criminal activity.

Edited by dx100uk
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Would the first bus have CCTV coverage that might show the card reader showing green?

 

 

I'm aware that most buses have CCTV installed but I don't know if there's a CCTV on the bus that directly captures coverage of the card reader.

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