ParkingEye ANPR PCN -ASDA/Farm Foods - Glynn Square Wolverton Milton Keynes

[vjt2]

We have just received a parking charge notice from ParkingEye for using a carpark that we don't normally use.

 

We went to Asda and Farm Foods and I looked up parking details prior to going on the Farm Foods website and it said parking was free.

 

We parked for 2 hours and 1 minute on 12 July 2018 and have received parking charge of £100 dated 18 July 2018 - do we have to pay this?

 

I was not aware of any time limit but have subsequently found out that there is a limit of 11/2hours - noted on the back of the parking charge notice.

 

They have sent photo evidence of car going in and car leaving.

The car park was Glynn Square Wolverton Milton Keynes

 

Has anyone else had similar and what did you do and what was the outcome?

Vicki

Edited July 22, 2018 by vjt2
adding more information

[honeybee13]

Hello Vicki, welcome to CAG.

 

 

Don't worry about the ticket, we'll help you. Could you give us the information requested in the forum sticky please? It will help the guys to advise you.

 

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

 

 

Best, HB

[dx100uk]

Thread title updated

[vjt2]

1 Date of the infringement 12 July 2018

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 18 July

 

3 Date received 21 July

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?]

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal] Not yet

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

 

7 Who is the parking company? Parking eye

 

8. Where exactly Glynn Square Wolverton Milton Keynes

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. BPA

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

Edited July 22, 2018 by dx100uk
format

[ericsbrother]

where did it say parking was free?

Now what they have done is offered you free parking for a limited time and then decided to charge you £100 for the extra time.

 

I bet their sign doesnt actually say this so there is already a reason not to pay them but they wont be letting the truth stand in the way of their payday

 

Expect a long fight over this.

You will win eventually but it will take a bit of effort.

 

Are you up for it?

If so can you get to the car park in the near future and take some pictures of the signage. the sign at the entrance isnt a contract so you cant breach it to owe them money.

 

In the meanwhile tell ASDA their web listing is misleading and will they get the ticket cancelled.

Edited July 22, 2018 by dx100uk
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[vjt2]

Hi I've just been past and there is clear signage at the car park saying 1 1/2 hours free parking so it is my fault

- i looked at the Farm Foods website and that says free parking.

 

I must admit that the signs are very big and very clear

- I just didn't see them or look at them

 

so I guess I jus have to put this down to experience

[dx100uk]

NO!!

 

go look at the planning application permission on the councils website

I bet it says 3hrs as 99% do

[lookinforinfo]

vj2 before PE or any parking company has the right to charge motorists any money at all they need to comply with

a] the Law

b] the BPA code and

c] Council regulations.

 

I have not seen a single parking company that has managed all three on this site.

 

So while sadly, the majority of people pay up, had they challenged the parking companies in the right way, they would either win hands down in Court or their case would be dropped before it got that far.

 

So pay up if you have no stomach for a fight though

how can it be right that you can park for free

and then it jumps to £100 for parking over their time by about 15 minutes.

 

Under the BPA Code, motorists are entitled to a minimum of 10 minutes over time to allow for reading and understanding the notices, finding a place to park then getting out of the car park at the end.

 

Have a read of some of the other threads on the private parking section and see how many lose.

You will either see wins for the keeper/motorist or the parking company just goes away since they can see they are not getting any money so it is easier to move on to other motorists who pay up following their demands.

Edited July 22, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[vjt2]

I must admit that the signs are clear

- it does say 1 1/2 hours at the entrance and next to where I parked

however having checked out on the FarmFoods website it said free car parking

 

I have just emailed them and said that their information is misleading and asked them to cancel the parking charge notice so will see what happens in the net day or so.

 

In the meantime what should I do regarding the parking charge notice letter

- I know i shouldn't just ignore it

Edited July 23, 2018 by dx100uk
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[ericsbrother]

but you dont understand,

that sign isnt an offer of a contract,

it is an invitation to treat at best.

 

You didnt see the contract because that is on other signs and even if you did see them you dont have to accept them because the invitation to treat has invited you in to park and then consider the offer, which you decided to turn down.

 

Now PE have to ask you to leave after that but they didnt so you can stay and not be subject to any of the rejected terms.

 

As for what you do with their useless letter,

you ignore it and get moaning at ASDA and remind them that their servants are breaking the law by obtaining your keeper details and you hold them responsible so in the fullness of time you will be after ASDA and PE for damages.

 

In short, stick it to ASDA and dont give up when they say contact PE.

Edited July 23, 2018 by dx100uk
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[vjt2]

I've attached the planning application for the signage and automated camera recording - this also includes copies of the signs and locations.

Also attached is the information on FarmFoods website

13. APPLICATION 09 15 02385 ADV 4 Glyn Square Wolverton.pdf

Farmfoods..pdf

[DragonFly1967]

Unusually, they've got permission for the signage.

 

However...

Was there also a planning application to vary the terms of the original planning consent (from when the car park was first built) which probably didn't impose a 1½ hour time limit on 'free' parking? And/or any subsequent application that varied that original consent.

 

Neither Asda, Farm Foods or (more likely) ParkingLie can decide one morning that '3 hours is too long, let's change it', it doesn't work like that.

[lookinforinfo]

Well it was a retrospective application that was done in 2015 ie 4 years late.

So for 4 years that were committing a criminal offence and in breach of their Code of Conduct.

 

All their PCNs should not have been sent and of course the good old dumb DVLA gave them all the data they wanted during that period.

They do have robust measures in place!

And PE probably wouldn't have applied then for permission had some motorist not pointed it out.

 

Interesting that the Council thought that as there were now 5 signs on site that another one relating to the use of ANPR would be too much.

This despite the DPA of 1988 stating that the public ANPR must be informed when it is in use.

 

They are breaching Data Protection [assuming they haven't updated

-though difficult with 5 signs in place] which means their contracts are unenforceable.

Edited July 23, 2018 by dx100uk
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[steveod]

They are breaching GDPR even if they had an ANPR sign in place. The signs cannot be the same simple sign showing a cctv symbol as under the DPA 1998. They are obliged to provide ALL the info set out in art 13 of the GDPR at the time of obtaining the personal data. I.e. when the anpr takes the first picture. I have not seen even 1 sign anywhere that is compliant with GDPR. In any event, if the RK was not the driver then how have they complied with art 13, they haven’t. ICO and DVLA now very late addressing these points I have raised in addition to the fact the DVLA have told me they are authorised to pass on RK details under art 6(1)© of the GDPR which I have disputed and I have objected and restricted their processing of my personal data by passing it n to any ppc. Waiting still to see how the DVLA going to address this non compliance issue.

[vjt2]

Unusually, they've got permission for the signage.

 

However...

Was there also a planning application to vary the terms of the original planning consent (from when the car park was first built) which probably didn't impose a 1½ hour time limit on 'free' parking? And/or any subsequent application that varied that original consent.

 

Neither Asda, Farm Foods or (more likely) ParkingLie can decide one morning that '3 hours is too long, let's change it', it doesn't work like that.

 

How would I find that out? Is this something I can request from Milton Keynes Council under GDPR? or should I be able to find it?

Vicki

[vjt2]

They are breaching GDPR even if they had an ANPR sign in place. The signs cannot be the same simple sign showing a cctv symbol as under the DPA 1998. They are obliged to provide ALL the info set out in art 13 of the GDPR at the time of obtaining the personal data. I.e. when the anpr takes the first picture. I have not seen even 1 sign anywhere that is compliant with GDPR. In any event, if the RK was not the driver then how have they complied with art 13, they haven’t. ICO and DVLA now very late addressing these points I have raised in addition to the fact the DVLA have told me they are authorised to pass on RK details under art 6(1)© of the GDPR which I have disputed and I have objected and restricted their processing of my personal data by passing it n to any ppc. Waiting still to see how the DVLA going to address this non compliance issue.

 

Thanks - I thought GDPR only applied to public bodies - if so then how does it apply to PrivateEye - I see the argument with DVLA though. So not sure where I stand - any other thoughts?

Edited July 23, 2018 by vjt2
typo

[DragonFly1967]

How would I find that out? Is this something I can request from Milton Keynes Council under GDPR? or should I be able to find it?

Vicki

 

You'd need to speak to a planning officer (probably not the person that answers the phone in the planning office) and request that they do a planning application/consent search on the property including any conditions that were attached to those applications/consents.

 

It's not always as simple as it should be to get that information, especially if it's archived, but don't let them wriggle and try to get off the hook. You're entitled to that information and they have to supply it to you.

 

 

Thanks - I thought GDPR only applied to public bodies - if so then how does it apply to PrivateEye - I see the argument with DVLA though. So not sure where I stand - any other thoughts?

 

Nope, GDPR applies to pretty much everyone. You might be getting mixed up with the FOI which is only compulsory for public bodies.

[vjt2]

Hi thanks for this I have searched and cannot find anything other than the attachment below which was a retrospective application for erecting signage - how/where would I search?

Vicki

[steveod]

Thanks - I thought GDPR only applied to public bodies - if so then how does it apply to PrivateEye - I see the argument with DVLA though. So not sure where I stand - any other thoughts?

 

You can write to PE and inform them that as they didn’t provide a GDPR compliant privacy notice as required by art 12 and art 13 of the gdpr, that the processing was not lawful or transparent and therefore they had no lawful reason to process the RK personal data.

 

Inform them that therefore they need to cancel the PCN, stop processing the RK data and remove the RKs personal data from their systems.

 

Offer them as a gesture of goodwill that if they follow these instructions then the RK will not seek compensation under the GDPR. That’s what I would do anyway.

 

They will probably come back and say they had a legitimate reason to request the personal data from the DVLA. However even IF that was the case they would have needed to fully comply with article 13 in order for the processing by ANPR to be lawful and transparent.

Edited July 23, 2018 by dx100uk
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[lookinforinfo]

vjt2 I doubt that they would have applied.

They are already streets ahead of most parking companies by actually having planning permission for their signs.

 

The Council in their ignorance appear to have given them the green light to use ANPR without signs so why would they bother.

But it is good news for you.

You are not liable for the charge they sent you.

 

And that's even before we have seen the notices they do have and their NTK although you have more than enough justification to ignore their invoices anyway.

Edited July 24, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[vjt2]

I've had a response from FarmFoods who have said:

I am sorry to hear that you have received a parking fine whilst using the car park at our Wolverton shop, and may I immediately apologise most sincerely for the distress and inconvenience which this must have caused you.

 

Please let me assure you that Parking systems are in place simply to deter non-customers from abusing our parking facilities and it was certainly not our intention to penalise genuine customers. If you could provide me with the following information I can look into this matter with Parkingeye:

 

• Parking charge reference number

• Shop

• Entry time

• Exit time

• Vehicle registration

• Transaction number from your receipt for this visit

I've forwarded the information requested and got a response saying:

Thank you for your further email.

These details have now been passed to Parking Eye and we will be sure to relay any information back to you once received.

 

I have also responded to this as follows:

Dear X

Thankyou for your email. Please can you confirm that you have not passed any of my personal details to ParkingEye - just the information relating to the PCN

 

Please note I do not consent to my personal details (name email and phone) being passed to them) in line with GDPR regulations this consent has not been sought

I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for your assistance in this matter.

 

so will see what this brings

Still nothing from Asda

Edited July 24, 2018 by vjt2
change of font

[dx100uk]

and when you write again

point out it is NOT A FINE.

[ericsbrother]

you should have been a lot firmer withthem over the passing on of your details, just the vehicle reg would have been enough for PE to cancel the ticket.

 

When you get a response I woudl be ripping into them over this non consent matter and demand that they pay the sodding ticket or pay you £500 for the breach of the GDPR

[steveod]

 

I have also responded to this as follows:

Dear X

Thankyou for your email. Please can you confirm that you have not passed any of my personal details to ParkingEye - just the information relating to the PCN

 

Please note I do not consent to my personal details (name email and phone) being passed to them) in line with GDPR regulations this consent has not been sought

I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for your assistance in this matter.

 

so will see what this brings

Still nothing from Asda

 

Don’t pursue the consent as you state above. Farmfoods didn’t and don’t need your consent in order to communicate with PE they will rely on legitimate interests. However, PE have not complied with the GDPR as per my previous post so you could go after PE for the breach of the GDPR.