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    • ok looks like that's what you need to do. but keep it bare bones for now as post 5  
    • stuff and all if there no signed agreement in the return   dx  
    • 1st again why do you keep changing things before you send them   you've added counterclaim in to our std CPR 31:14 you sent? why? this opens you up to additional costs and I hope you didnt tick counterclaim when you did AOS on mcol too?   also I notice you've  played with our std OD defence above too...   pers I would refrain from continuing to change things as they are written in the frain they are for specific reasons.   your defence is due by 4pm Monday [day 33]   here are 2 versions you will ofcourse need to adapt them to lowells para no's and remove the NOA stuff as your docs show Lowell have complied with those. but don't forget to mention other documents provided to date notably statements contain no proof they came from Lloyds but rather Lowells own internal data system    dx   1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant entering into an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') with the [insert original creditor] . .  2. The defendant denies that the account exceeded the agreed overdraft limit due to overdrawing of funds but is as a result of unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account. .  3. I refute the claimants claim is owed or payable. The amount claimed is comprised of amongst others default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, missed or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety. .  4. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon. .  5. The claimant is denied from added section 69 interest within the total claimed that as yet to be decided at the courts discretion. .  6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. .  The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-. .  (a) Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, that this claim is based on.  (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.  (c) Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account with justification.  (d) Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.  (e) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.  (f) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct. .  7. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated [xxxxxxx] namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request. .  By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. .  .............. or  Particulars of Claim  1.The claim is for the sum of 2470.56 in respect of monies owing pursuant to an overdraft facility under account number XXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX.  2.The debt was legally assigned by Santander UK Plc to the claimant and notice has been served.   3.The Defendant has failed to repay overdrawn sums owing under the terms and conditions of the bank account.   The Claimant claims:  The sum of 2470.56 Interest pursuant to s69 of the county courticon Act 1984 at a rate of 8.00 percent from the 7/04/2015 to the date hereof 14 days is the sum of 7.58Daily interest at the rate of .54  Costs Defence  The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant once having had banking facilities with the original creditor Santander Bank. It is denied that I am indebted for any alleged balance claimed.   2. Paragraph 2 is denied.I am not aware or ever receiving any Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon.   3. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Original Creditor has never served notice pursuant to 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974  Any alleged amount claimed could only consist in the main of default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbeyicon National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.  4. As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.  The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.  (a) Provide a copy agreement/overdraft facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception that this claim is based on.  (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.  (c) Provide a breakdown of all excessive charging/fees and show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.   (d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.  (e) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.  5. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated April 2015 namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request.   By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  Regards  Andy    
    • Hi   Just read your thread and looked at the Docs posted in your PDF.   1. from AST to rent a Car Parking space you need to have signed a Car Parking Agreement for a Space and for visitors you should have asked permission for another space in advance with a fee to pay. (i also assume renting a parking space would be at a cost)   2. You have no signed Car Parking Agreement nor visitor space agreement.   Did you not fully read that AST before you signed it and pick up what is stated about parking and ask them about this Car Parking Agreement and if you need one to park in the car park?   You could formally complain to them about what was verbally said to you but unless you have evidence of this it may be hard to prove.   You should also contact them and ask how you go about renting a Car Parking space/costs and about the Car Parking Agreement also what the process is for a visitor car parking space/costs.   You need to be aware that they could class you and your visitor as illegally parking in there car park without consent nor a signed car parking agreement which they could use as a Breach of your Tenancy Agreement so you need to be careful in how you are approaching this and where you are parking.   Just for info on checking Manchester Life website they have numerous buildings/apartments/car parks but you may be in a building where some of the apartments are leasehold and as part of there leasehold they may have purchased a car parking space in that building. (so how do you know you are not parking in a space that someone in the building has legally purchased?)
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vjt2

ParkingEye ANPR PCN -ASDA/Farm Foods - Glynn Square Wolverton Milton Keynes

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We have just received a parking charge notice from ParkingEye for using a carpark that we don't normally use.

 

We went to Asda and Farm Foods and I looked up parking details prior to going on the Farm Foods website and it said parking was free.

 

We parked for 2 hours and 1 minute on 12 July 2018 and have received parking charge of £100 dated 18 July 2018 - do we have to pay this?

 

I was not aware of any time limit but have subsequently found out that there is a limit of 11/2hours - noted on the back of the parking charge notice.

 

They have sent photo evidence of car going in and car leaving.

The car park was Glynn Square Wolverton Milton Keynes

 

Has anyone else had similar and what did you do and what was the outcome?

Vicki

Edited by vjt2
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Hello Vicki, welcome to CAG.

 

 

Don't worry about the ticket, we'll help you. Could you give us the information requested in the forum sticky please? It will help the guys to advise you.

 

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

 

 

Best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Thread title updated


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1 Date of the infringement 12 July 2018

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 18 July

 

3 Date received 21 July

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?]

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal] Not yet

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

 

7 Who is the parking company? Parking eye

 

8. Where exactly Glynn Square Wolverton Milton Keynes

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. BPA

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

Edited by dx100uk
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where did it say parking was free?

Now what they have done is offered you free parking for a limited time and then decided to charge you £100 for the extra time.

 

I bet their sign doesnt actually say this so there is already a reason not to pay them but they wont be letting the truth stand in the way of their payday

 

Expect a long fight over this.

You will win eventually but it will take a bit of effort.

 

Are you up for it?

If so can you get to the car park in the near future and take some pictures of the signage. the sign at the entrance isnt a contract so you cant breach it to owe them money.

 

In the meanwhile tell ASDA their web listing is misleading and will they get the ticket cancelled.

Edited by dx100uk
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Hi I've just been past and there is clear signage at the car park saying 1 1/2 hours free parking so it is my fault

- i looked at the Farm Foods website and that says free parking.

 

I must admit that the signs are very big and very clear

- I just didn't see them or look at them :-(

 

so I guess I jus have to put this down to experience

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NO!!

 

go look at the planning application permission on the councils website

I bet it says 3hrs as 99% do


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

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Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

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vj2 before PE or any parking company has the right to charge motorists any money at all they need to comply with

a] the Law

b] the BPA code and

c] Council regulations.

 

I have not seen a single parking company that has managed all three on this site.

 

So while sadly, the majority of people pay up, had they challenged the parking companies in the right way, they would either win hands down in Court or their case would be dropped before it got that far.

 

So pay up if you have no stomach for a fight though

how can it be right that you can park for free

and then it jumps to £100 for parking over their time by about 15 minutes.

 

Under the BPA Code, motorists are entitled to a minimum of 10 minutes over time to allow for reading and understanding the notices, finding a place to park then getting out of the car park at the end.

 

Have a read of some of the other threads on the private parking section and see how many lose.

You will either see wins for the keeper/motorist or the parking company just goes away since they can see they are not getting any money so it is easier to move on to other motorists who pay up following their demands.

Edited by dx100uk
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I must admit that the signs are clear

- it does say 1 1/2 hours at the entrance and next to where I parked

however having checked out on the FarmFoods website it said free car parking

 

I have just emailed them and said that their information is misleading and asked them to cancel the parking charge notice so will see what happens in the net day or so.

 

In the meantime what should I do regarding the parking charge notice letter

- I know i shouldn't just ignore it

Edited by dx100uk
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but you dont understand,

that sign isnt an offer of a contract,

it is an invitation to treat at best.

 

You didnt see the contract because that is on other signs and even if you did see them you dont have to accept them because the invitation to treat has invited you in to park and then consider the offer, which you decided to turn down.

 

Now PE have to ask you to leave after that but they didnt so you can stay and not be subject to any of the rejected terms.

 

As for what you do with their useless letter,

you ignore it and get moaning at ASDA and remind them that their servants are breaking the law by obtaining your keeper details and you hold them responsible so in the fullness of time you will be after ASDA and PE for damages.

 

In short, stick it to ASDA and dont give up when they say contact PE.

Edited by dx100uk
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Unusually, they've got permission for the signage.

 

However...

Was there also a planning application to vary the terms of the original planning consent (from when the car park was first built) which probably didn't impose a 1½ hour time limit on 'free' parking? And/or any subsequent application that varied that original consent.

 

Neither Asda, Farm Foods or (more likely) ParkingLie can decide one morning that '3 hours is too long, let's change it', it doesn't work like that.


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Well it was a retrospective application that was done in 2015 ie 4 years late.

So for 4 years that were committing a criminal offence and in breach of their Code of Conduct.

 

All their PCNs should not have been sent and of course the good old dumb DVLA gave them all the data they wanted during that period.

They do have robust measures in place!

And PE probably wouldn't have applied then for permission had some motorist not pointed it out.

 

Interesting that the Council thought that as there were now 5 signs on site that another one relating to the use of ANPR would be too much.

This despite the DPA of 1988 stating that the public ANPR must be informed when it is in use.

 

They are breaching Data Protection [assuming they haven't updated

-though difficult with 5 signs in place] which means their contracts are unenforceable.

Edited by dx100uk
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They are breaching GDPR even if they had an ANPR sign in place. The signs cannot be the same simple sign showing a cctv symbol as under the DPA 1998. They are obliged to provide ALL the info set out in art 13 of the GDPR at the time of obtaining the personal data. I.e. when the anpr takes the first picture. I have not seen even 1 sign anywhere that is compliant with GDPR. In any event, if the RK was not the driver then how have they complied with art 13, they haven’t. ICO and DVLA now very late addressing these points I have raised in addition to the fact the DVLA have told me they are authorised to pass on RK details under art 6(1)© of the GDPR which I have disputed and I have objected and restricted their processing of my personal data by passing it n to any ppc. Waiting still to see how the DVLA going to address this non compliance issue.

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Unusually, they've got permission for the signage.

 

However...

Was there also a planning application to vary the terms of the original planning consent (from when the car park was first built) which probably didn't impose a 1½ hour time limit on 'free' parking? And/or any subsequent application that varied that original consent.

 

Neither Asda, Farm Foods or (more likely) ParkingLie can decide one morning that '3 hours is too long, let's change it', it doesn't work like that.

 

How would I find that out? Is this something I can request from Milton Keynes Council under GDPR? or should I be able to find it?

Vicki

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They are breaching GDPR even if they had an ANPR sign in place. The signs cannot be the same simple sign showing a cctv symbol as under the DPA 1998. They are obliged to provide ALL the info set out in art 13 of the GDPR at the time of obtaining the personal data. I.e. when the anpr takes the first picture. I have not seen even 1 sign anywhere that is compliant with GDPR. In any event, if the RK was not the driver then how have they complied with art 13, they haven’t. ICO and DVLA now very late addressing these points I have raised in addition to the fact the DVLA have told me they are authorised to pass on RK details under art 6(1)© of the GDPR which I have disputed and I have objected and restricted their processing of my personal data by passing it n to any ppc. Waiting still to see how the DVLA going to address this non compliance issue.

 

Thanks - I thought GDPR only applied to public bodies - if so then how does it apply to PrivateEye - I see the argument with DVLA though. So not sure where I stand - any other thoughts?

Edited by vjt2
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How would I find that out? Is this something I can request from Milton Keynes Council under GDPR? or should I be able to find it?

Vicki

 

You'd need to speak to a planning officer (probably not the person that answers the phone in the planning office) and request that they do a planning application/consent search on the property including any conditions that were attached to those applications/consents.

 

It's not always as simple as it should be to get that information, especially if it's archived, but don't let them wriggle and try to get off the hook. You're entitled to that information and they have to supply it to you.

 

 

Thanks - I thought GDPR only applied to public bodies - if so then how does it apply to PrivateEye - I see the argument with DVLA though. So not sure where I stand - any other thoughts?

 

Nope, GDPR applies to pretty much everyone. You might be getting mixed up with the FOI which is only compulsory for public bodies.


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Hi thanks for this I have searched and cannot find anything other than the attachment below which was a retrospective application for erecting signage - how/where would I search?

Vicki

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Thanks - I thought GDPR only applied to public bodies - if so then how does it apply to PrivateEye - I see the argument with DVLA though. So not sure where I stand - any other thoughts?

 

You can write to PE and inform them that as they didn’t provide a GDPR compliant privacy notice as required by art 12 and art 13 of the gdpr, that the processing was not lawful or transparent and therefore they had no lawful reason to process the RK personal data.

 

Inform them that therefore they need to cancel the PCN, stop processing the RK data and remove the RKs personal data from their systems.

 

Offer them as a gesture of goodwill that if they follow these instructions then the RK will not seek compensation under the GDPR. That’s what I would do anyway.

 

They will probably come back and say they had a legitimate reason to request the personal data from the DVLA. However even IF that was the case they would have needed to fully comply with article 13 in order for the processing by ANPR to be lawful and transparent.

Edited by dx100uk
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vjt2 I doubt that they would have applied.

They are already streets ahead of most parking companies by actually having planning permission for their signs.

 

The Council in their ignorance appear to have given them the green light to use ANPR without signs so why would they bother.

But it is good news for you.

You are not liable for the charge they sent you.

 

And that's even before we have seen the notices they do have and their NTK although you have more than enough justification to ignore their invoices anyway.

Edited by dx100uk
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I've had a response from FarmFoods who have said:

I am sorry to hear that you have received a parking fine whilst using the car park at our Wolverton shop, and may I immediately apologise most sincerely for the distress and inconvenience which this must have caused you.

 

Please let me assure you that Parking systems are in place simply to deter non-customers from abusing our parking facilities and it was certainly not our intention to penalise genuine customers. If you could provide me with the following information I can look into this matter with Parkingeye:

 

• Parking charge reference number

• Shop

• Entry time

• Exit time

• Vehicle registration

• Transaction number from your receipt for this visit

I've forwarded the information requested and got a response saying:

Thank you for your further email.

These details have now been passed to Parking Eye and we will be sure to relay any information back to you once received.

 

I have also responded to this as follows:

Dear X

Thankyou for your email. Please can you confirm that you have not passed any of my personal details to ParkingEye - just the information relating to the PCN

 

Please note I do not consent to my personal details (name email and phone) being passed to them) in line with GDPR regulations this consent has not been sought

I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for your assistance in this matter.

 

so will see what this brings

Still nothing from Asda

Edited by vjt2
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and when you write again

point out it is NOT A FINE.


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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you should have been a lot firmer withthem over the passing on of your details, just the vehicle reg would have been enough for PE to cancel the ticket.

 

When you get a response I woudl be ripping into them over this non consent matter and demand that they pay the sodding ticket or pay you £500 for the breach of the GDPR

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I have also responded to this as follows:

Dear X

Thankyou for your email. Please can you confirm that you have not passed any of my personal details to ParkingEye - just the information relating to the PCN

 

Please note I do not consent to my personal details (name email and phone) being passed to them) in line with GDPR regulations this consent has not been sought

I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for your assistance in this matter.

 

so will see what this brings

Still nothing from Asda

 

Don’t pursue the consent as you state above. Farmfoods didn’t and don’t need your consent in order to communicate with PE they will rely on legitimate interests. However, PE have not complied with the GDPR as per my previous post so you could go after PE for the breach of the GDPR.

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