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    • Hi   Something else I think you need to ask the Insurer for Clarification on is.   That you require full clarification on which clauses within the Terms & Condition of the Policy they are using to refuse payment under the Policy.     I would also consider sending the Insurer a Subject Access Request simply asking for 'ALL DATA' this covers whatever format they hold it in whether it be email/telephone recording/written format etc. (note: if they require you to use their own subject access request form always put 'ALL DATA' on their form)    
    • matters not what they come up with it's statute barred      
    • Revised defence:   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. The Claimant claims £2247.91 is owed under a regulated consumer credit account under reference xxxxxxx. I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant and the claimants solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request who are yet to fully comply. I dont believe they have provided this yet correctly   2. Paragraph 3 is denied.The Defendant contends that no notice of assignment pursuant to s.136 of the Law of Property Act & s.82 A of the CCA1974 has ever been served by the Claimant as alleged or at all. still stands   3. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:   (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice; and © show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   4. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and also my section 78 request and remain in default with regards to this request.   5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   6. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.   7. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.    
    • Just received a letter from lowells sols stating they have note of my aos   They have stated they have attached -  Copy of agreement, statement and notice of assignment   HOWEVER - they had not attached my notice of assignment and they have sent me the same 'agreement' as before which was 3 pages of a computer print out, statement and some rehashed t's anc c's. i can re upload again but its exactly what i uploaded before   They state they have requested a copy of my default notice   So in light of this shall i still send the same defence? i think it still stands right?  
    • Just had a Clear Score update which says:   A credit or store card account will be removed from your January report. Organisation Name: Hoist Account Number: ****9048 Company Type: finance house What does this mean? This means that you’ve closed an account. Maybe you’ve changed your phone contract so the phone loan has been removed from your report. Why is this change not on my report yet? We get your credit report every month from Equifax, a credit reference agency. This update can be seen on your Equifax credit report now but will only be reflected in your ClearScore report when your report is next updated, which is on 2 January. Is this a usual part of the process? I'm submitting my defence this weekend. I'll post it on here first.
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MacDave

Shortfall turned into 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th charges on a property

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Hello, i'm new here having only just discovered this site

 

I have a residential property with a mortgage in only my name which is all upto date with no arrears.

there is about £145,000 equity in it.

 

However i have 4 other charges on the property ( so total 5 inc initial lender)

 

these 4 arose out of BTL props that "went wrong",

banks sold the properties off way cheap, leaving shortfall debt which they then turned into secured charges.

 

the total of the shortfall debt is approx £390,000, yes i know , its huge, ( as i said the banks gave the props away)

 

so i have £145k equity v £390k shortfall

 

some questions:

 

If i try and sell the property what will happen?

 

( from a maths point of view if i did sell the property the 1st (Original) and 2nd chargeholder would be paid in full but there would no be anything left for the others)

 

and if i try sell the property, can the 2nd,3rd,4th or 5th chargeholder block it?

 

what else could i do?

 

 

TIA

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How did they manage to secure the shortfalls on your private residence ? and why not on the BTLs ? After all the mortgages would have been secured already on the individual BTLs?

 

Andy


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Andy, the BTL props were possessed by the lender after the mortgages were defaulted on. ( Long story (personal), not really relevant now , fact is they all ended up in default)

Then they were sold very quickly at way under market price, hence the shortfall on each BTL property

 

there were actually 2 separate lenders , one had 2 props, the other had 2 props as well

 

How they managed, i'm not sure , i wasnt living in the private residence property at the time, that was rented out, i was living in cheaper (rented) accommodation

 

but they managed to turn unsecured shortfall debt into secured charges ( the courts just rubber stamp almost anything as regards to mortgages/charges i've been told)

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So basically they issued court claims...you didnt defend for what ever reason...default judgments......now secured on your personal property by way of charging orders ?


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yes correct,

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Roughly when did the repossessions happen...over 6 years ago or recently?


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The actual possessions were over 6 years ago, not sure exactly.

 

I would have to check as to when they finally sold/completed

, but the charges only appeared 18 months ago

Edited by dx100uk
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"Some people tell us the mortgage company didn’t get in touch at all about the shortfall until months or years after the repossession - or has suddenly got back in contact. We’ll consider whether it’s fair for the lender to continue to recover the money - taking into account the time limits that apply and any contact that’s been made in the meantime."

 

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/mortgages-shortfall.html


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thanks for that..

 

what i dont know at this time is all the dates involved ,

 

all i know was that

a) the props were taken after default,

b) they were then up for sale and

c) i ended up with charges to do with the shortfall

 

for sure i've had no contact with them for over 6 years now

Edited by dx100uk
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also, is there anything else i can do ( see original post) as i really just want to sell this property now

 

( in case the ombudsman service can't do much for me)

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And you didnt do anything when you received notification of the charge from the Land Registry re Interim Charging Order ?

 

With regards to your initial question...the first mortgage always takes priority and is the main charge.

 

If there not enough left after sale...tough they should have done their due diligence and checked the equity.

 

But there are still further options open (subject to the age of the CCJs) for the Judgment claimant to execute the judgment...Attachment of Earnings (unless your self employed) Warrant of control to recover personal goods to sell...or..Third Party Debts Orders or even Bankruptcy.

 

See what the OB advise.

 

 

Andy


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And you didnt do anything when you received notification of the charge from the Land Registry re Interim Charging Order ?

 

Answer: no i did not

 

With regards to your initial question...the first mortgage always takes priority and is the main charge.

 

If there not enough left after sale...tough they should have done their due diligence and checked the equity.

 

Answer: yes that i understand but can they ( 2nd/3rd/4th) stop a sale initiated by me? because if they can then only way out then is to default on the first mortgage to force the sale, which may create more shortfall ( but it shoudn't as there is enough equity) but it will remove all the charges for the new buyer, and turn all the secured charges back into unsecured debt

 

But there are still further options open (subject to the age of the CCJs) for the Judgment claimant to execute the judgment...Attachment of Earnings (unless your self employed) Warrant of control to recover personal goods to sell...or..Third Party Debts Orders or even Bankruptcy.

 

See what the OB advise.

 

 

Andy

 

 

see above for my answers

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They could make it difficult...shouldn't stop the sale if an agreement can be reached with the others..but you need a good conveyance solicitor and research primary mortgage lender....and priority.

 

Saves me typing the following out......

 

https://beatmydebt.com/self-help-guides-resources/charging-orders/selling-your-property-with-a-charging-order


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Final word......out of interest ...was it the banks who got judgment.... placed the Charging Orders or DCA numpties ?


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Final word......out of interest ...was it the banks who got judgment.... placed the Charging Orders or DCA numpties ?

 

it was the banks

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They could make it difficult...shouldn't stop the sale if an agreement can be reached with the others..but you need a good conveyance solicitor and research primary mortgage lender....and priority.

 

Saves me typing the following out......

 

https://beatmydebt.com/self-help-guides-resources/charging-orders/selling-your-property-with-a-charging-order

 

Not sure how an agreement can be made with the others, if the property is sold at market price, the other charge holders stand to receive almost nothing so why would they agree? i/they can't make the property worth more than its market value.

 

On the other hand, if i just stop paying , hand the keys back (as in go down the Voluntary Repossession route) the primary mortgage holder can sell the property without recourse to the other chargeholders so they (the other chargeholders) will end with nothing anyway, i would imagine.

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It is possible...if you can get the " others " to accept a payment arrangement and explain the alternative option if they dont..they may agree by consent order to remove the charges....they always have further options if you failed to honor the agreements as stated in post #11 above.

 

But see what the OB advise if you can show that the judgments were placed after 6 years from the repossessions.


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would i have to apply to the court to get the " consent order to remove the charges." ? ( assuming i can get them to agree )

 

and yes i will be contacting OB about you pointed out

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No the Judgment claimant facilitates the Order.


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