Jump to content


Dave421

Ex Girlfriend owing me money

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 273 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Hi all. Me and the ex girlfriend ended about 2 years ago but kept in contact since.

 

About 6 months ago I was having bad times with gambling. Being isolated I asked via texts if I could send her some money to hold onto until I had gambling blocks in place and was no longer at risk of gambling. She agreed and I sent her the money via bank transfer.

 

As my income was paid in, I sent her more of it. Totalling £900. Purely to hold onto, not spend and I made this clear to her.

 

She spent that money behind my back though. Claiming her roof had leaked which damaged her belongings that she had to replace (and chose my money to replace it with rather than go without).

 

At this point now, we are no longer on great terms, she doesn't want to remain in contact (blatantly found someone else) and although I was due some payment back last month, no payment was made.

 

I made a demand that I get £300 back each month for the next 3 months, yet she's plainly told me that wont happen as she won't have enough spare cash and will pay "some" each month.

 

So now in theory, I have to sit and wait for what? Maybe £100 a month back until she cant be bothered to pay anything anymore? No thanks.

 

What would my options be? She's currently living with her mum (she moved back there while we were still together). I'v told her I will contact her dad who again in theory, might pay the whole amount to avoid it going further, but not sure if I want to tempt that.

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What would my options be? She's currently living with her mum (she moved back there while we were still together). I'v told her I will contact her dad who again in theory, might pay the whole amount to avoid it going further, but not sure if I want to tempt that.

 

Thanks

 

This seems to be a casual arrangement between 2 people.

 

As it is a matter of honour on the part of the ex girlfriend as to how or whether she pays the money back, there is not much you can do about it.

 

Although a contract could be formed in such situations, i am not convinced that you could gain a CCJ against her, if she defended a claim.

 

You have to be carefull. The amount owed is a civil matter between you. If you start harassing her with repeated contacts and involve her family, she could make a report to Police for harassment

 

Suggest you document all contacts you had when you were sending her the money and all contacts since.

 

Then send her a letter explaining everything in detail. How much money you sent to her and when ; the reason it was sent to her and what she agreed to do ; how much money she has repaid and when; And how much money remains to be paid. Advise her that you require this money to be repaid over say the next 3 months and that if she does not do this, you will seek to obtain a County Court Judgement against her.

 

Keep all contact in writing. If she calls, ask her for email confirming what she has agreed.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This seems to be a casual arrangement between 2 people.

 

As it is a matter of honour on the part of the ex girlfriend as to how or whether she pays the money back, there is not much you can do about it.

 

 

 

I disagree, in part, regarding the legal basis. I come to a similar conclusion on a practical basis, though.

 

 

On a legal basis, from the OP's description, the ex-girlfriend was asked to hold the money on trust, and as such, as soon as the OP meets the agreement (gambling blocks in place and no longer at risk of gambling) the ex-girlfriend is under an obligation to replay the money held on trust.

it isn't (in law) a "matter of honour", but a duty of a trustee.

 

 

 

There is also that the money wasn't hers to spend, only to hold.

 

 

However, this is a civil, not a criminal, matter ; unless the OP can show dishonesty by the ex, as part of "dishonest intent to permanently deprive"

 

 

 

There are two main obstacles for the OP pursuing this as a civil case, though (as well as the unpleasantness involved, and then the difficulty in enforcing any award even if they win a civil case...)

a) the ex might say it was never money given to be held on trust, and "it was a gift", or

b) they might say, "yes, it was given on trust, but I'm obliged by the duties of that trust to hold it until it is no longer at risk of being gambled. I'm worried it might still be gambled, so of course I'll give it back, but just not yet ......"

 

 

So, get some back (and in a demonstrable way, e.g. bank transfer, not just cash that has no audit trail), before getting "hot and heavy" with any legal threats.

That way, you boost your chance of success if it did have to go to court.

a) why would she repay any if it were a gift, not a loan .....

b) why would she repay any if she was saying she was under a duty not to repay it until there was no risk of it being gambled and she still believed you'd gamble it.

 

 

Get some back, in a way you can prove to a court, and then go down the 'write her a letter' route.

 

 

Even better if you get 2 repayments first, so she can't claim the first was just "a trial sum, to see if it got gambled". There would be only so many times she could claim that and a court still believe it!.

 

 

Has she actually got the money to repay you, even by installments, though?. There is no point going to court, winning, and then finding she hasnt got the money : you can't get blood from a stone, and it'd be a hollow victory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just wonder about whether the girlfriend has become a 'trustee' ?

 

What are the legal requirements for a 'trust' arrangement to exist ?

 

For sake of argument, every homeless person using a relatives or friends bank account to receive say benefit payments, might be entering into a 'trust' arrangement with their relative or friend. Not sure if a 'trust' arrangement is created because of the vulnerability issue ?


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be very difficult to prove that a trust has been formed, essentially there has to be three clear, defined 'certainties' outlined when one is constructed. I don't think this would have happened.

 

As regards a contract, a court is likely to have the starting point that the intention between the two parties was to NOT enter in to legal relations. That said, if there are e-mails or texts that can prove the contrary, the courts will look to the fact that a contract would have been formed. The key issue here, however, is that if a judgment is obtained - if the other party has no money, the instalment rate could be very low; far lower than £100 a month. Maybe just a token payment.

 

All that said, a written letter before claim could be worth sending - recorded delivery would be recommended.

 

As others have said, avoid harassing anyone, as that could cause all sorts of issues.

 

With best wishes,

 

The Ting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It would be very difficult to prove that a trust has been formed, essentially there has to be three clear, defined 'certainties' outlined when one is constructed. I don't think this would have happened.

 

As regards a contract, a court is likely to have the starting point that the intention between the two parties was to NOT enter in to legal relations. That said, if there are e-mails or texts that can prove the contrary, the courts will look to the fact that a contract would have been formed. The key issue here, however, is that if a judgment is obtained - if the other party has no money, the instalment rate could be very low; far lower than £100 a month. Maybe just a token payment.

 

All that said, a written letter before claim could be worth sending - recorded delivery would be recommended.

 

As others have said, avoid harassing anyone, as that could cause all sorts of issues.

 

With best wishes,

 

The Ting

 

I think you are confused.

There (from the OP’s post) was never a likelihood of a contract.

A) lack of consideration (the OP gave over cash, but got nothing of money or “money’s worth” in return)

B) no intent to form legal relations of a contract (though the relationship of a trust was intended!)

C) no offer of a contract ....

D) no acceptance of a contract.

Prof. Trietel would be spinning ......

 

It is much more likely the OP can show a trust was formed.

For the “three certainties”?

Certainty of intention : the OP can state (in evidence, by a witness statement, if need be) what the intent was. They can evidence it further by showing a repayment / repayments (as I suggested before) in case the ex wants to try to claim it was a gift.

 

Certainty of Trust property : the fixed sum of £900 is pretty certain, and it all going back to the OP is pretty unequivocal too in terms of “respective interests of beneficiaries”

 

Certainty of ‘objects’ / beneficiaries: not hard with one stated, defined beneficiary.

 

The OP clearly intended a trust to be created, and it can arise as a constructive trust, even without paperwork setting it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Bazza. The legal requirements for forming a contract don't exist so Trusteeship seem the most likely legal basis.

 

 

As other posters have said the more important issues at this point are practical rather than legal. Is there an evidence trail - texts? emails? letters? - that confirm what OP intended when he gave the money to his ex- ? Good suggestion from Bazza for getting to ex to make repayments that could amount to acknowledgement that she owes him the money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the first post the op said:

"Being isolated I asked via texts if I could send her some money to hold onto until I had gambling blocks in place and was no longer at risk of gambling. She agreed and I sent her the money via bank transfer."

This is unmistakable proof that it wasn't a gift.

Contacting her dad is not a bad idea in my opinion.

Dads usually cover up for daughters (I did many times).

However I wouldn't send the dad a threatening communication, but a soft one.

Something along the lines of: "Hi, how you doing? Sorry to bother you, but sometime ago I gave your daughter £900 to hold on to so I wouldn't spend it on gambling.

Now that I sorted my gambling problem I really need it back but your daughter won't return it.

Is there anything you can do to help? Thanks"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Simply send her a LBA giving her 7 days in which to return the money, OR come to an agreement in which she will pay you back over a period of time.

 

 

If she fails to respond, then IMO I'd issue a small claim against her and she will have to pay back far more than the money she was entrusted to look after.


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Practically speaking, there are two options:

 

1) Try to agree a repayment plan with the girlfriend.

 

2) Start a small claim against the girlfriend. You would probably win and get a CCJ against her, but that might not necessarily help get payment.

 

Personally, I would try to agree a clear fixed payment plan. £100 pm would not be the end of the world if she stuck to it. Small claims only helps if it is a case of 'won't pay' rather than 'can't help'.

 

Hope you have managed to deal with the gambling problems - make sure the money goes into a separate savings account rather than into your current account, at least if it is harder to access (with no debit or credit card) that will make it harder to spend.


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks all so much for the advice in this.

 

Proof wise, there seems concrete proof in forms of a bank receipt showing initial amount sent to her then a lot of messages.

 

Initially it was 1 lump sum. Then a few smaller bits to get it to that total.

 

Whatsapp messages include things such as:

 

(This for first amount sent)

Me: I just sent that money over to you now. Can you confirm it's reached your bank?

Her: Yes, It's come through. When did you want it back?

Me: Some time in the next 2 months? I have a new SSD drive arriving soon, and I need that time to get gambling blocking software installed on it again and register my details at Gamstop.

Her: I understand. I will keep it separate from my money so just let me know.

 

Before that, there was full discussion about the plan of her looking after it for me.

 

After sending more amounts (proof again via messages), it was £900, which she even acknowledged is mine that shes looking after and she even confirmed the full amount.

 

A month or so later I messaged asking for it back, but then that bombshell was dropped about it being spent replacing things damaged in a roof leak. I sent messages being annoyed at her for not even asking, yet there felt little I could do because if the money's gone.... It's gone.

 

That's when she said about paying some back each month. Nothing back last month though and her reason's were because she had to pay for private physio as she has some back problems.

 

It was in the last few weeks contact has gone the way it has, which was when I made those demands of £300 a month for the next few months to cover in, in an attempt to get my money back as quick as possible so we can both move on with our lives.

 

 

My main concern with it all, is if she did start paying some back each month, whats to say in 6 months time her and her new guy plan a holiday and paying me back that month is the difference between being able to go or not? I think that holiday would be more of a priority than paying me back and missing out. Then it just gets messy down the line.

 

So I feel it's important to somehow get a set, and realistically payable agreement implemented.

 

Certainly she would have the means to pay it as she's in a good job and pays lower rent due to living with her mum but i'm pretty sure she wont stop her lifestyle (going out for drinks, meals and having a premium priced coffee every day) to pay me back quicker.

 

I will review all advice given here, thank's everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It isn’t theft.

The police will say it is a civil matter.

 

What distinguishes it from theft by finding is that the ex didn’t find the money, the OP gave it to her. For it to be theft there has to dishonest intent to permanently deprive, all the ex has to do is say she is holding on to it because she is worried the OP will still gamble, and that she intends to give it back in the future. No dishonesty, nor intent to permanently deprive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt there is any need to be escalating it to the heights that are being banded about, KISS, put something down in writing, get proof you sent it, if that fails to work then send the LBA recorded delivery, when she fails to respond in a positive manner, do what your LBA says and issue a claim, keep the old bill out of it, they will say it's a civil matter.


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“Merely saying them does not mean she is innocent” : except she is innocent until proven guilty. To be proven guilty a prosecution would need to show guilt beyond any reasonable doubt. Both “I’m holding onto it because I’m worried he is still gambling” and “I intend to pay it back” can introduce sufficient reasonable doubt : the police won’t touch it, and even if by some unlikely chance they did, it won’t meet the CPS charging standard to bring to court.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you again all. I'm actually finding it interesting and learning a lot in the thread so it's become quite an educational read. Just processing in my head the things mentioned.

 

What I will say is if there is anything about her saying she's still holding onto it because she's worried I could gamble it... There comes the question of what money? As she's spent that money.

 

Perhaps having no bearing but if I didn't give her that money to hold onto, and she had the leak and asked if she could borrow some money, I would have said no because borrowing implies spending and repaying it over time. Which is a bad mistake to make when it comes to ex's.

 

When giving her the money we were still on good terms. We didn't end on bad terms at all and I gathered all it would be is give her the money, then get it back instantly on request. Only when she found someone else did the good terms end and I feel with the now non existent contact, I can't trust her to keep to paying me back bits each month.

 

Anyway.

 

The police might be rocking it a bit too far for now and if possible I wouldn't want to go down that as I'm gathering if the police even acted on it, that would mean her getting arrested under caution which could affect her employment and make it harder to get the money.

 

Not that there would be something like this but looking through advice from people, I'm looking for something as close to repayments with consequences. In other words she pays £100 minimum a month until it's paid. Then if she misses a payment, she has to answer to small claims court.

 

Which is why my initial thought was of contacting her dad because if he can pay, and she pays him back, he's guaranteed £100 a month until it's paid.... Unlike me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, so you need to choose a solution, otherwise we'll all still be hypothesizing 3 years from now, if you think she's unlikely to pay, then you need to start the process of getting your money back.

 

 

Keep a diary of events, send a letter 'asking' for her suggestions on how much she can afford to pay back which is acceptable to both parties.

 

 

If she fails to respond, then send an LBA with a strict time scale by which to repay the money failing which you'll start legal action.

 

 

Then if that fails to work, as soon as she is outside of the timescale, send her a laimvia the small claims track.


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you, sorry for rambling on.

 

Would a whatsapp message suffice in terms of that letter? As when I said "she doesn't want to remain in contact", it's as in, I say something to her, she reads it. I get a 1 or 2 word reply, I reply. She reads it and doesn't reply. So it's changed from how it was say a month or 2 ago before she met her new guy. I can take a hint.

 

I'm gathering a letter would be better like you mentioned? (Which I will prepare now).

 

The 1 thing relevant to that is when contact went distant and I made demands for £300 a month, that's when her words were "some" (paid back each month). After, with my minimal knowledge of law and stuff I told her that otherwise it would have to go down the court route and involve her having a CCJ. She didn't seem bothered, making claims perhaps oblivious to the facts, that if bayliff's turned up at her's then they wouldn't be able to take anything as it's her mums house and that they would have to prove it's her belongings, not her mums. There was never any offer of a set payment each month and when I asked her, she kept saying "some, it all depends what I have left over".

 

Or, because of her saying that (Which she didn't seem to take that seriously or be bothered about). Would that be reason to send the LBA now instead?

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you tried the soft approach with her father?

If a war can be avoided with a political move, best for everyone to avoid it.

A text doesn't cost anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

text = everything in writing for the sake of records, text is nothing a letter sent Recorded Delivery is fact and copy receipt attached.

 

 

sorry you are being taken for a ride, do not be too soft on her, she had no respect for your property, pussyfoot around with her, send a letter before action (see copies on this site they must have some) give her 30 days to respond before next move


:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No I wouldn't be sending something important by social media, sign of the times I guess?

 

 

Keep everything in writing, then YOU have a paper trail of evidence.


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As she has a good job, the best way of enforcing a CCJ would be an "attachment of earnings". This would be an order that the employer pays a portion of her salary directly to you each month, until the debt has been repaid.

 

Whether you want to go down that road is up to you.


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ex gf definitely isn't a con to others. Well, her job I will reveal now is in the NHS. I definitely dont believe an elaborate plan was set up.

 

More to do with.... had my money.... spent it without my consent, agreed to pay me back monthly. New bf = I, nor my finances are any priority (I could be mistaken, but I dont want to chance it as nobody knows the future. She could easily say "screw you" or whatever down the line).

 

I have sent the LBA, looked at guides here (ty to all who advised). Knowing her it will be "oh Dave, he wont go that far" and all relaxed with it.

 

I could whatsapp message her but nope, got the ball rolling now the proper way.

 

Her dad, yep could message him in the meantime. I don't know. I might.

 

If nothing is agreed with her though, the next step with legal action will be taken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please stay OFF social media regarding this, if she can argue you confused her by bombarding her with multiple demands via various means, then you'll lose.

 

 

Stick to written letter only and ALWAYS obtain ''Proof of Posrting'' as a minimum for your own records.

 

 

LBA's are ALWAYS sent recorded delivery.


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So upon advice before, I sent her an LBA (I didn't sooner as after contact she would be making what seemed feasible excuses).

 

I sent an LBA of which she dismissed and made a counter offer. I agreed to this as it seemed fair.

 

Last month, less than half of her counter offer was paid to me. This month? I dread to think what it will be.

 

It's £700 owed now. My question is.... Is it how I think it is? (Bear in mind as stated in previous post, this money was never lent to her, I trusted her to hold onto it until I had set plans in place to block my ability to gamble and get help with it)

 

I pay the fee and refer to small claims. They then forward the paperwork to her. If she denies owing me that money, we go to a court hearing, of which I need to provide evidence.

 

If she agrees she owes me the debt, then? She has 1 month to pay or has a CCJ?

 

Who sorts out the repayment plan? Do the courts ask her for evidence of her earnings to suggest an amount?

 

Also what is it with "attachment orders" ?

 

Can I show she has been untrustworthy at repaying amounts and then ask the courts to contact her employer to deduct money from her wages before she gets paid?

 

If she offers me, say £30 this month and I don't feel that is a fair amount, can I refuse it and just take her to court?

 

Ideally I just need to know what happens with court, on her end? Does she have to prove she can only pay a certain amount a month? Or would it be where she offers what she thinks (after all her luxuries) she can pay and the courts accept and offer that amount to me?

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...