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My partner was dismissed from work in Dec 2016 for gross misconduct - theft of employee.

 

They had him say in statements that it totalled to over £22k (unsure if it was RLP or employer) but only £13k was documented on partners papers and £60 on CCTV.

Police were called, he was taken into custody.

No charge or bail.

Some amount was recovered that night.

 

He missed his summoning due to moving cities and they never updated the system, so he handed himself in after he received a phone call in which he was then escorted to magistrates

- plead no contest at his solicitors request, in March 2017.

 

The case was then sent to crown the following month.

Hearing finished early due to CPS not handing in enough sufficient evidence in theft amount, they lowered the grand total to £15k.

 

He had to plead guilty for £15k at his second crown hearing, the 'team' fighting for the employer was happy with the results and was given a suspended sentence (18 months suspended for 2 years), 150 hours unpaid work, fine and a victim surcharge. The fine and charge have been paid as well as hours.

 

7 months after sentencing, my partner received a letter from RLP demanding the first original amount of £22k + fees of surveillance etc, else it will be forwarded for court proceedings.

 

We ignored it thinking it may be spoof, as they have little reputation.

 

Another letter was received waffling how there wasn't a response

. I told him to contact his solicitor, he read through the court papers and was surprised as it stated no further action would be made as they were happy with the outcome.

 

He replied to them via email in February stating he does not admit to the amount of £22k as the amount on his evidence is £15k minus recovered.

 

This week (5 months later) they responded with:

 

Dear Mr XXXXX,

 

We refer to our previous correspondence in this matter.

 

 

Our instructions are that there was never any agreement not to pursue the substantial sums owed.

 

Our client was not present at the criminal Court hearing but has confirmed that they did not seek an Order for criminal compensation as it was and remains their intention to recover the sums due by way of civil recovery as they are entitled to do.

 

In view of the same, they seek to recover the full balance of £22,054.00 through Court action if necessary.

 

 

We would therefore ask that you re-confirm your position.

In the event that you are seeking legal advice in this matter, we would ask that you provide us with details of your solicitors so we may correspondence with them directly.

 

 

Yours sincerely,

Legal Department

 

----

Neither of us are in a financial position to pay off £22k in a suitable amount of time, especially to RLP. Surely it would have gone to court by now instead of dragged out as it isn't a typical £150 invoice they tend to throw out.

 

Is it really worth paying for a solicitor to fight for him, will CAB consider this?

Edited by dx100uk
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You TOTALLY ignore rlp


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Theft from employer.

Found guilty.

The employer will have proof of losses, however the burden of proof I much higher in criminal cases.

Beyond reasonable doubt.

The burden of proof in civil cases is much lower.

A preponderance of the evidence.

So pled guilty at criminal ( that is what no contest means) court, means basically a defaulted win for civil claim.

 

Id start saving and not waste money on paid legals.

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You TOTALLY ignore rlp

 

 

 

No no no no.

Dont confuse this with a shoplifting rlp....

Its a completely different scenario.

 

Criminal proceedings have taken place and a guilty verdict in crown court recorded.

 

They can and do file civil cases for recovery even if no criminal compensation is asked for.

It is their right to do this

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So how much did your partner steal from the company, and how much money was recovered? And where is the balance?

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Thank you for your replies.

dx100uk - Yeah we tried that approach to begin with, but it isn't that easy with a big sum - hence seeking legal advice.

 

sgtbush - We were told the no contest had to be pleaded (which I didn't attend) as evidence was all over the place and no numbers were in front of the judge, they didn't want him to admit to anything too soon.

 

It wasn't until the first crown hearing he had no choice to plead guilty to £15k as a rounded sum, else it would have been sent to trial and ended much worse.

 

They also had misinformation about him as he was working for a different company during their time scale too, but somehow disregarded it.

 

The judge indicated that the impact on the company would have been a drop in the ocean. I was even trying to find public revenue reports during his period of employment.

 

Are we not able to dispute the amount?

Ask for proof of their losses?

---

Vauban -

It was goods in which he sold on, he wasn't the only employee involved.

 

During the sentencing hearing which I did attend, it was described as an "operation" which two on the same shift would move goods elsewhere for another to collect and store, he doesn't drive so I know he wasn't a part of transport.

 

Some shipped abroad and some sold inland.

For some reason he had it down in a notepad which was held as evidence and it said how much was taken which added up to shy of £15,000 at store price but sold for around 40% less.

 

Recovered was £800 which wasn't his address.

Whether the money was split, I don't know.

 

I saw no flash spending or lavish lifestyle as a result.

He was the only one to be convicted, that I know of.

Edited by b93

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No you IGNORE rlp

They wont and cannot do court

Only the employer can

 

And it wouldnt be via rlp at all

 

Dx


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It doesn't matter if the judge said is a drop in the ocean.

 

Criminal compensation is different to civil claim.

The value is set at retail value as that is the loss, not that he can sell it at 40% of value. That the price of moving stolen goods.

The plead of no contest is The same as a plead of guilty.

 

You will be able to see the proof of claim if taken to court and I suspect with the value of the claim they will proceed with it.

 

Like I said, it will be fairly straightforward as a criminal judgment of guilty is entered.

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No you IGNORE rlp

They wont and cannot do court

Only the employer can

 

And it wouldnt be via rlp at all

 

Dx

 

 

 

Sounds like employer have instructed solicitors to proceed with civil claim.

 

It would be handy to know what firm it is but this is nothing like a shoplifting exercise Tha stores use.

Remember tho has gone to court. Not threat ofcourt or police involvement

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Its a letter from rlp

You ignore rlp


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unsure if it was RLPicon or employer)

 

That's what the op stated in original post.

They do state later in the post a letter from rlp but I don't think that its In the same rlp as the ignored ones for normal retail loss prevention company's.

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It is. Weve seen those words before

 

To the op

Can you scan up the letters to pdf please

 

Read upload


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So we should wait for the employer to proceed with court and leave the money grabbing middleman out of it and ignore them completely?

 

We're not expecting to pay what things sold for that was just stating the 'official' pocketed between him and/or others amount wasn't the same.

 

The documented amount in his evidence is what we would openly be willing to organise, it wouldn't be down for nothing.

 

His statement (which he had no idea he wasn't legally obliged to do in office) was an estimate.

 

They only originally only wanted him for £60, he admitted things which he knew were taken and his employer or the RLP in store rough estimated the amount, they had no actual physical price they saw it as item A could worth £60-90, we'll say £90 even if the tag had £45. They had no stock check to be certain.

 

So profits and losses would be visible to us?

Also, our collected evidence is normally destroyed isn't it?

 

Guilty plea was given at £15k though with evidence, not £22k which they're apparently asking.

 

I don't have the first original letter at hand, this is the email received Wednesday, logo and contact details are visible.

jpg2pdf.pdf

Edited by dx100uk
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What you need to be careful of is that you ignore legal letters from solicitors under instruction from the employer with a "genuine" claim with those fleecers that operates under the same guise and prey on shoplifters and have no merit.

 

The letters look similar.

 

The difference is that rlp fleecers threaten police action If you dont pay.

 

The difference is in your partners case its been to court already and a guilty plea recorded.

That's why you need to be careful.

 

You need to redact any identifiable info.

 

Just Sa the name of the solicitors or company

Edited by dx100uk
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Its rlp

Ignore totally

 

Block their email address and bounce back that email

 

Only and only a solicitor writes [not by email. Always ignore and bounce emails back]

Stating my client [your ex employer] WILL be taking you to small claims county court..

 

Do you ever respond to anything from now on!!

 

Dx


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So would you recommend that we leave RLP in their bed and await a notice of court hearing? They don't seem too keen with their reply scheduling.

 

Out of the PDF? Name/Client/Ref were blocked out, what else needs to be done?

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If it indeed just rlp then ignore.

I dont know as I cannot see the document as its admin locked for some reason.

 

What I am saying is you need to be careful.

Normal rlp prey on victims shame/guilt when NO court action was taken.

 

Your case is different

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It's due to being a new member. Tried to post link to an image uploader but a message appeared

"To be able to post links or images your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 4 posts.

 

Please remove links from your message, then you will be able to submit your post."

 

 

So you're saying this could be another story as there is already a conviction in place, it'll be hell of a lot easier for them to successfully recover costs?

 

The logo is the silver eye in the middle of a swastika looking flag.

Edited by b93

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Post 13 att approved go try now

 

Its RLP's jackie from her fake legal dept

One office nearer the bog door at notts rlp office

 

Go back and read and ACTION post 15

CAREFULLY

 

You wont be getting any court claims

 

Can't keep repeating myself...IGNORE rlp


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Whilst to a point I agree with the 'ignore RLP' comments, this has to be with the same note of caution mentioned earlier - do not ignore anything which might follow which looks like a properly constructed letter before claim . Whilst RLP are, at base level, absolute chancers with no interest other than to line their own pockets, in theory at least, they might well persuade the employer to issue proceedings, and providing that the employer can substantiate the amount being claimed, successfully convince a judge to issue judgment. In the majority of cases where RLP blow hot air about their client's entitlement to damages for the disruption caused to their business, a figure plucked out of thin air makes it very unlikely that they would be successful in a properly defended case - and indeed RLP were badly burned in the 2012 Oxford case where a judge agreed that such amounts could not be recovered.

 

With employee theft however things 'can' be rather different, especially since your partner admitted to theft valued at £15k and the employer believed it to be closer to £22k. Clearly with £££ signs in their eyes, RLP will naturally be starting with the higher amount and would hope to negotiate this down if there were strong evidence to suggest that your partner's guilt was genuinely closer to the lower figure. With employee theft it is also easier to evaluate costs of investigation as much of it will involve personnel who may be brought in and paid for that specific purpose - unlike security guards in a retail store who hare paid regardless of whether they have to investigate theft during their shift or not. I have known it happen, with some fairly hefty costs involved, although was not privy to whether RLP were involved or not

 

What I can't fully understand (nor should I particularly but the question has to be asked) from this post or the one which you made on this subject elsewhere several months ago, is 'what happened to the stolen goods'? I note that some value was recovered and returned to the employer, but if £15k was stolen, either in money or goods, what happened to it and why could it not be returned when the theft was detected? If the money was returned to the employer, then there could be no claim, other than possibly for genuine out of pocket costs for investigation

 

I suppose therefore that it is a matter of holding out and seeing what happens next. RLP on it's own initiative cannot instigate Court action, only the employer can so it might be a matter of whether they 'would' rather than whether they 'can'. They might opt not to do so, but they might follow through, either by instructing RLP's in-house solicitor, or by instructing their retained legal consultants, which all big organisations tend to have - although why then would RLP be involved in the first place? You can certainly expect RLP to not drop this easily, not least as they read these forums and have been known to then write to people advising against taking advise from people on the internet who know nothing and even quoting particular posts.

 

Certainly DO NOT pay RLP a penny. If you must deal with anybody, let it be the employer directly. Are they really demanding that RLP recover this amount, or have they washed their hands of it and are allowing RLP to make demands and get you to pay something and then get a percentage of whatever you do end up parting with?

 

I see that you originally intended to speak to your solicitor about this several months ago but couldn't? Have you done so since and if so what was their advice?


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RLP will charge Sainsburys a good few quid to process the paperwork needed for a court claim and then put Sainsburys name on the paperwork (as they have no rights in this matter)

 

. As stated by others, they are NOT solicitors and cant actually act on behalf of anyone else and to add to that they have invented costs that dont exist to inflate the claim.

 

Now, if sainsburys want to go along with that it is up to them but they will be paying cost they dont need to bear by doing so as well as lining Jackie's pocket.

 

 

I would let them do their worst, it wont make any real difference as long as hubby does his sums and argues to the end about the true level of loss to the company.

 

When a robust defence is submitted to the court the claimant often realises that the simplistic submissions done in their name arent good enough to get them everything they are claiming and they will happily back pedal

 

if it comes to it do accept mediation and produce you figures as then the claimant will have to show they have their sums right to the penny or they will be paying costs for the day out ( it isnt small claims track so costs are a big factor here)

 

being broke will also help him, paying this off at a fiver a month wont please them if they have turned down a cash offer to settle out of court so work out your strategy.

Edited by honeybee13
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I read through their integrity screening website blurb and was amused at their traffic light system and how they decide who gets a red light.

 

Terrorist? green light,

not on electoral roll? CCJ? amber light.

received a meaningless threatogram from RLP? RED LIGHT, RED LIGHT ALERT ALERT...

 

They are selling a service that only makes use of their other databases so you have to believe in fairies as well as pay them twice for obtaining information that is mostly in the public domain.

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Whilst to a point I agree with the 'ignore RLP' comments, this has to be with the same note of caution mentioned earlier - do not ignore anything which might follow which looks like a properly constructed letter before claim . Whilst RLP are, at base level, absolute chancers with no interest other than to line their own pockets, in theory at least, they might well persuade the employer to issue proceedings, and providing that the employer can substantiate the amount being claimed, successfully convince a judge to issue judgment. In the majority of cases where RLP blow hot air about their client's entitlement to damages for the disruption caused to their business, a figure plucked out of thin air makes it very unlikely that they would be successful in a properly defended case - and indeed RLP were badly burned in the 2012 Oxford case where a judge agreed that such amounts could not be recovered.

 

With employee theft however things 'can' be rather different, especially since your partner admitted to theft valued at £15k and the employer believed it to be closer to £22k. Clearly with £££ signs in their eyes, RLP will naturally be starting with the higher amount and would hope to negotiate this down if there were strong evidence to suggest that your partner's guilt was genuinely closer to the lower figure. With employee theft it is also easier to evaluate costs of investigation as much of it will involve personnel who may be brought in and paid for that specific purpose - unlike security guards in a retail store who hare paid regardless of whether they have to investigate theft during their shift or not. I have known it happen, with some fairly hefty costs involved, although was not privy to whether RLP were involved or not

 

What I can't fully understand (nor should I particularly but the question has to be asked) from this post or the one which you made on this subject elsewhere several months ago, is 'what happened to the stolen goods'? I note that some value was recovered and returned to the employer, but if £15k was stolen, either in money or goods, what happened to it and why could it not be returned when the theft was detected? If the money was returned to the employer, then there could be no claim, other than possibly for genuine out of pocket costs for investigation

 

I suppose therefore that it is a matter of holding out and seeing what happens next. RLP on it's own initiative cannot instigate Court action, only the employer can so it might be a matter of whether they 'would' rather than whether they 'can'. They might opt not to do so, but they might follow through, either by instructing RLP's in-house solicitor, or by instructing their retained legal consultants, which all big organisations tend to have - although why then would RLP be involved in the first place? You can certainly expect RLP to not drop this easily, not least as they read these forums and have been known to then write to people advising against taking advise from people on the internet who know nothing and even quoting particular posts.

 

Certainly DO NOT pay RLP a penny. If you must deal with anybody, let it be the employer directly. Are they really demanding that RLP recover this amount, or have they washed their hands of it and are allowing RLP to make demands and get you to pay something and then get a percentage of whatever you do end up parting with?

 

I see that you originally intended to speak to your solicitor about this several months ago but couldn't? Have you done so since and if so what was their advice?

 

Apologies for the delayed replied, I hadn't received notifications.

 

All evidence used 'for' my partner in his criminal case was essentially used as evidence against him at the same time, which is how £15k came to surface - in which he will no longer have access to as it is destroyed. Unless it is noted in case papers.

 

Goods had been sold all over the UK and overseas between a few of them. What happened to the money made from it - no idea. After doing a simple working out it isn't an obvious amount of luxury money to change a lifestyle, especially if split: 15k / 24 = 625p/m at labelled price. I imagine things were sold at a much less price so call it 40% off and it brings it down to £375 a month, which could be £125 +/- per person depending on how many were involved. There was also a small gap due to changing employers.

 

So it is a matter of a waiting game as to whether or not things would go ahead? This process seems to be dragged out - 7 months for a reply over a big sum of money is pretty long IMO. I think it took about 5 months to hear from them with their first letter.

 

Yes, we managed to speak to his solicitor which was a brief 5-minute phone conversation. All he had to say was that it states in the court papers that no further action would be taken, which RLP seem to deny. He then gave us the notice that we could purchase the papers for £x-amount.

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Eric, I think you may have clicked on the wrong post? This isn't a Sainsbury's case :)

 

So, what I've understood is that RLP have nothing to legally stand on and basically act as a CAB-esque company for other companies.

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not sure where i got sainsburys from but the advice remains the same,

basically RLP or anyone else cant add massive costs to this claim just because they feel like it.

 

However, as it will not be dealt with by the small claims track all legal costs at taxation can be added and this is where RLP may try their luck.

 

They are not a CAB type organisation, they are a company that sells a false premise that charging companies to let them try and screw supposed miscreants out of money not owed makes retail theft less likely.

No research ever done to support that supposition.

 

Also they run this sister company that supplies "blacklists" to potential employers at great risk to the employer and RLP if you look at the demise of similar schemes in the building trade.

 

Eric, I think you may have clicked on the wrong post? This isn't a Sainsbury's case :)

 

So, what I've understood is that RLP have nothing to legally stand on and basically act as a CAB-esque company for other companies.

Edited by dx100uk
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