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Indigo windscreen byelaw Penalty Notice - Tring Station .


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Hello all. Long time lurker here but first time poster. Please see completed form below:

 

1 The date of infringement? 06/07/2018

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? N

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days] No

what date is on it N/A

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? N/A

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?]

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

 

5 Who is the parking company? Indigo Park Solutions UK Ltd

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Tring Station Car Park, Tring. Hertfordshire

 

The penalty notice was issued by Indigo Park Solutions UK Ltd on behalf of West Midland Trains for Breach Code 1

- Failing to display a valid ticket or voucher.

 

At the top of the Penalty Notice, it notes that the car park is regulated by the terms and conditions of parking displayed at the car park in accordance with Rail Byelaw 14, and so on........

 

Please could someone advise the steps I need to take in order to not pay this please?

 

From reading around this wonderful forum I can see that this appears to be unenforceable in a magistrates court (which I gather they would never do anyway due to not receiving any money from it) after 6 months,

 

I would appreciate a few bullet points outlining what the steps are to get to 6 months and what type of correspondence I can expect please.

 

I'm keen to take this on based on what I have read, however my wife isn't and is looking for some reassurance from the more knowledgeable folk on here.

 

Thanks in advance!

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Hi and welcome to CAG,

Indigo have been contracted to manage many railway sites but they have one serious problem. They cannot offer an independent appeal to you so if you appeal the ticket, they will reject it so you would think you could go to POPLA as Indigo are members of the BPA. Erm, No! POPLA do not offer the appeals service to byelaw breaches so there is no other avenue for you to appeal to.

 

 

Indigo (I believe) cannot take court action against you as they do not own the land.

 

 

I think I will look on Google for that train station and see if I can see any signs.

 

Can't see much. Can you get some pictures of the signs when you next visit.

 

 

I'm assuming you forgot to pay??

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Thanks for the reply and welcome silverfox. The google streetview images are nearly a decade out of date (and don't go into the car park anyway)! Would it help if I took some pics of the signage and uploaded them?

 

Payment was not made, that is correct. I think our posts crossed. I'll get some images and upload later on.

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Await the NTK which must arrive between 29 - 56 days

 

They nor WMT can actually win anything as if they did goto court it would be a mag court and the money would goto to the mag court

 

Lots of byelaw 14 threads here

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 3 weeks later...
Can't see much. Can you get some pictures of the signs when you next visit.

 

Hi Silverfox. Please see images attached:

 

Apologies for it taking so long.

 

Yes, ticket slapped on car and left a massive greasy mark when trying to peel off in all this hot weather!

 

I've pdf'd the hosted images and uploaded. Thanks for the guide dx.

attachment.pdf

Edited by dx100uk
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They slapped a ticket on the car then?

If not what communcation have you received.

 

Also the list of donts far exceeds what is covered by byelaw 14 so they become meaningless as they cant be enforced by that byelaw.

 

That makes me wonder whether that also menas that byelaw 14 doesnt apply as the notes to it do mention other things they can do to punish you for bad parking NOT in a car park but none of this tripe.

 

best wait and see if they send you the NTK within the correct time frame.

Now thast is a bit of a red herring as since the land isnt "relevant land" then they will be in the wrong anyways.

 

What this does is take away the ability to collect and keep the money themselves.

Sure the railway co can try and prosecute you if Indigo dont drag it out too long but then any money you pay as a fine goes to Phillip Hammond and not the rail co.

 

As this is all about profiteering they dont actually want that so you may be playing poker with them over this but you ahve the advantage of knowing what cards they hold and they dont know yours.

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thread tidied

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sorry I didn't respond to earlier posts. I was in hospital at the time.

 

 

So, the NTK doesn't allow you the opportunity to appeal. That's a breach of BPA guidance and should be reported although the BPA will probably state that as this is a penalty ticket issue, they won't get involved.

 

 

As DX mentioned earlier, any fine goes to the Gov. rather than Indigo so there is no incentive for them to take court action. They want their pound of flesh before any court action as that WILL go into their pockets.

 

 

The question of the penalty charge could also be brought up. Who agreed with the level of £100? (little) IF this did go to Magistrates Indigo wouldn't get a penny and the magistrate may just give a lesser penalty.

 

 

Indigo prey on the consumers lack of knowledge when chasing these 'charges'

 

 

 

If it was me, I would send them the cost of a days parking and a small admin fee totalling around £15 in final settlement. They then get something out of it.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Thanks silver - hope the stay in hospital wasn't too serious.

 

I'm loath to send them anything apart from an appeal, which there is no direction for on the NTK. There is also no time frame mentioned i.e no "pay by a certain date or else" so I'm none the wiser as to what to expect next and when it might happen. Any ideas?

 

Also, is there a downside to me offering a settlement, i.e they reject it and go straight to mag court for example?

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well,

being railway land the POFA doesnt count and so they will have to rely on byelaw 14 to penalise you.

As this will mean them taking you to court and you being fined they dont get any money and have to put in all the legwork so the govt earn a few quid.

Neither Indigo or the railway want this so they publish bits of paper that have no legal basis and that is also why they have added £27 unicorn food tax to the bill.

 

As for appealing

- essentailly you cant because they have no system they can use for appeals and wouldnt apply as it isnt relevant land.

 

Now, to take you to court the railway will have to do certain things in a fixed time frame and the longer you can hold things off the greater the chance they will miss the boat.

 

It is a bit of an unknown as to whether trying to waste time by appealing or just doing nothing is the better approach,

certainly appealing cuases them to waste a bit of effort to say you cant and then you saying that isnt correct and trying to get POPLA involved to waste even more time or just relying on them doing nothing as they wait for the money to roll in because you are frightened is a moot point.

 

Now, if the POFA applies you have 28 days to appeal as the keeper and the when they reject that you have another similar time to go to POPLA, who wont make a decision in a month and by then at least 4 months will have passed.

 

Indigo cant take this to court as they dont have the authority but they can pass it up the chain.

Again that will take time so your call.

 

If you do appeal you need to look at all of the pettifogging bits like the code on the ticket not matching any recognised codes as used by councils,

point out all of the deficiancies with the NTK you have just got and state that no liability is created under the POFA because the paperwork is so shoddy and so on.

When they slap you down demand a POPLA code and say that if they dont provide one you will like to have the matter looked at by arbitration and so forth.

 

Once you have burnt up 6 months of time the railway co will be too late to do anthing via byelaw 14 and any other action will fails anyway because it isnt relevant land. In all of this do not say who was driving, just refer to yourself as the keeper and say that the driver did this or that

Edited by dx100uk
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  • 1 month later...

Just a quick update to this. I have received the attached letter and it crossed in the mail with a letter I sent to the parking co. asking how to appeal. I'm assuming they are one and the same company as all the address details are the same?

 

Is there any further advice to follow at the moment please?

PCN_ZZPS_Letter_Redacted.pdf

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Dca's are powerless muppet s

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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To initiate proceedings in the magistrates court for the byelaw offence, I believe they'd require the name of the person who was driving (keeper liability doesn't exist under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 for byelaw covered land), they'd need to lay a complaint within 6 months of the incident also.

 

The Train Operator generally won't do this because any money the driver is ordered to pay would be paid to the Crown upon a successful conviction, not to mention in the criminal courts there's a strict burden of proof, as opposed to balance of probability within the County Court.

 

I wonder how a private company can try to accept payment and make money from an alleged criminal offence, in exchange for dropping proceedings? It almost sounds like they're conspiring to pervert the course of justice.

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yep lots of threads here on this...

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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ZZPS are a bunch of muppets (sorry Kermit) as this letter states 'Charge' to try and confuse matters further and adding on erroneous charges that could not be added.

 

 

 

Ignoring them is the best option I can think of. Should you receive anything court related then that's the time to sit up and take notice but looking at what they have done so far, that looks unlikely. I bet that West Midland Trains have no idea this case is ongoing.

 

I suspect that Indigo (or one of their pet debt collectors) will try and offer you a reduced charge to close this matter. That's how desperate they are.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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thye add these imaginagy charges to buy food for their unicorns.

Now, they hope that you think they are genuine fess and then pay up or are scared that the amount will soon run into hundreds so then pay up at some point if they do as they say they will and continue to write to you.

 

Well, the fees are unlawful for a couple of reasons so our advice is not to engage with them at all as they will think that you are worried about this and will pay up if they give it one last shot.

 

If Indigo are serious the they will have to get their masters to go down the criminal route and they will have spent all of their money for nothing so they wont want that to happen.

 

Now, asking them how to appeal so soon wasnt a good move, you should ahve used that as a stalling tactic some distance down the line because as pointed out there is a finite time to bring about a prosecution if the railway is minded that way.

 

So, you now wait for them to write again and if the next letter is from ZZPS you ignore again and wait for Indigo to write than then ask them some stupid questions that they will be likely to respond to and so on to waste time.

 

The alternative is to igniore them completely and let them do their worst, which cant be much.

Edited by dx100uk
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  • 2 weeks later...

Evening all,

 

2 more letter received in quick succession. One seems to be a standard going through the motions type letter and the other I'm guessing is a response to my question regarding how to appeal?

 

Is there anything specific I need to do with these please?

 

Many thanks

PCN_ZZPS_2_Letter_Redacted.pdf

PCN_ZZPS_3_Letter_Redacted.pdf

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Ignore. You'll receive a letter or two off QDR Solicitors, that can also be ignored, it's for the train operating company to lay a complaint in the magistrates court, ZZPS are trying to pervert the course of justice by taking money to stop potential proceedings of an alleged criminal offence.

 

Once it's 6 months after the date of the alleged incident, then it'll be timed barred and proceedings cannot be started in the magistrates court.

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well as you already know indigo cant take you to court on byelaw sc@m as they cant enforce the byelaws

only the railway co can.

and even if they did[ the railway co.]

the money [fine] would go to the gov't not anywhere else

so total BS

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I dont see any indication that they have responded to your letter asking how to appeal. These are standard template letters.

 

Anyway they are both from the monkey not the organ grinder so they cant offer you anything because thya have no say in the matter..

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