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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
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TSB, Fraud and now starting process to sue


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Hi, its been a while since Ive been here.

Just logging on and telling my story about TSB and a sim swap that emptied our accounts for a while.

 

TSB have changed the way customers have to log in via an APP, whereas before we had a card reader.

 

I never use the app as it doesn't work on Win phone.

TSB facilitated a fraud on our account after a sim swap was made.

 

They sent a one time password to someone, who then logged in and emptied the account.

 

Once I tried to log in,

I spoke to TSB and noticed this.

 

I then tried contacting their fraud dept, but because it was a business account, they couldn't help ( infuriating).

 

After long waits on the phone ( over 5 hours ) I had to take time out from my contracted hours, to go to the branch, where I waited most of the day for them to contact fraud with no answer.

Went the next day and pretty much same thing.

Id lost 2 days of work which we cannot recover.

 

I issued an invoice, which TSB have totally ignored,

even though good ole Paul pester promised that no customer would be out of pocket.

 

We are now at the stage where, the invoice is overdue (14 days) plus an extra 10 business days to pay up.

My next task is LBA, with further 10 to rectify.

 

If anyone wants to chip in feel free, I am so annoyed with them not even writing to us to acknowledge anything, I am hoping to get my day in Court.

 

Just had a look through CPR and the rules are a little different for a business to make a claim, Its 30 days from a LBA.

I do like the reply forms that have to fill in, this could be fun.

 

Additionally, they also owe us 70 odd quid because they blocked the accounts and a payment wasn't received, It was taken from a suppliers account and not applied to ours, even though TSB have said its been processed.

 

Second LBA going off next week

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Please will you hold off any further action until we can give you further advice in a few days

 

I'm away at the moment

 

However, before you sent an LBA you should already have known what you were going to threaten them with

 

I don't understand why you need to send them a second lba

 

Please will you post off a copy of your LbA in pdf format and also explain exactly what it is you're going to be suing them about

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hi Fodder thanks for reply,

original correspondence was invoice, this had breakdown of all time ive had to spend on trying to get in touch or visit branch. i had no written response, tsb did ring concerning complaint, but that is it. once id calmed down, i then issued a modified invoice that only showed lost time for business, ie, the 2 days to visit branch to try and report the fraud and to recover money.

 

I did this because as there is an ongoing complaint, the time outside the lost hours, ie in evenings trying to call etc. should be handled within the complaint process. So i can keep that seperate from our invoice.

in branch i discussed invoice, the staff sort of agreed, but obviously thats hearsay.

now for lba, this, I belive was not in the correct format, so I will issue this, quoting the new rules, also, as it is a business sueing, I need to follow those PAP/cpr rules

 

which includes issuing an annex form stating a business is about to sue for a debt.

it will be delivered in branch via signed for post and copy sent via e-mail. I want to follow these rules as close as possible. LBA will state no written response etc etc. im drafting this over next day or so.

Ill post up timeline next post

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" now for lba, this, I belive was not in the correct format, so I will issue this,"

 

Dont do anything just yet...wait for BF.

 

Andy

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Im going along this line of thinking

, it will be reasonable to infer that, had the disruption not occurred, staff would have applied their time to activities that would, directly or indirectly, have generated revenue for the claimant.

 

In Aerospace Publishing Wilson LJ said:

for me I had to take time away from a contract to ensure no further fraud could take place,

 

TSB facilitated this by delaying or not answering the telephone lines dedicated to fraud in a timely manner, something they have already admitted in commons select committee meeting

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OK,

for BF,

this is what we originally sent along with our invoice to YTSB head office after they insisted that an e mail copy was not valid.

it was sent recorded delivery.

 

25 May 2018,

Reference: telcon concerning complaint Enc, 1 Invoice, 1 client proof of rates, 1 DSAR request form

 

Dear Mr. snooty TSB man in Edinburgh,

 

Further to the telephone call from yourself dated today at XXXX, in which you request our invoicing by recorded delivery.

Please find enclosed said invoice, which covers XXXXXXXXXXX Limited valid costing for the company’s lost time on our contracted work, during which we have had to deal with various departments within your bank with very limited success to date.

 

The evidence we have provided along with the invoice is a print out of a contract with one of our clients.

The full details have been removed to protect our client due to data regulations, however, it does show the hourly rate charged and agreed at the time, which we discussed in our telephone conversation.

 

There will also be a cost for the recorded delivery you have requested and this will be added to the enclosed invoice, including mileage at our rates of £0.60 per mile.

 

At this time of the current complaint, please note that the invoice is for our business costs only, which we feel are valid considering the frustrated process of trying to deal with your bank and lost time from our current contract.

We therefore ask that the terms of the invoice are adhered to, so as to avoid interest accruing.

 

It is understood that TSB have their own process of complaint resolution including resolution via the Banking Ombudsman, this however is for covering inconvenience and for loss of reputation, which as a small company has the potential to impact on the company operations in the future.

The complaint would therefore be an entirely seperate issue, which if required, would indeed be taken up with the Banking Ombudsman.

 

Additionally, we have included in the envelope a DSAR request.

It is hoped, you could pass this to the relevant department without delay, as we would require the telephone records and recordings concerning any one time passwords sent by your staff to fraudsters, from which this complaint arises.

 

As to the lack of due diligence shown to us by TSB, we have not taken this measure lightly, but feel that as it appears TSB are currently unable to conduct themselves in any timely or professional manner during what is obviously a crisis for your bank, we have no other option but to raise an invoice to protect ourselves from the circumstances TSB have presented us with.

 

Please provide a written response to this request for our records.

Edited by dx100uk
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  • 2 weeks later...

ok drafted this, getting ready to fire off soon

 

Letter Before Action

 

xxxxxxxx

xxxx 2018

To,

Bank xxxxxx

 

Dear Sirs

 

Reference: Invoice xxxxxxx

 

As it has not been possible to resolve this matter amicably, and it is apparent that court action may be necessary, I write in compliance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

 

On or aboutxxxxxx, a fraud was facilitated by TSB Bank on the accounts of xxxxxx

 

Mr xxxxxxxxxxx subsequently had to take time away from contracted hours with a client to attend to and attempt to resolve the results from the fraud and also further hours outside contracted hours in telephone calls as detailed below.

 

1,xxxx 2018. 1.5 hours waiting for TSB to answer telephone to enable entry into bank details.

 

2, xxxx8, evening waiting time approx 2 hours on fraud line to TSB, only to be told that as the account was a business account and business section was closed, they could not help and to call back the next morning (person from TSB fraud named as hairy bird)

 

3. xxxxx fraud line still unable to help as a business account.

 

4. Called Business Fraud line, no answer after 40 minutes approx.

 

5. xxxxx Branch to report fraud, TSB staff could not get through to the fraud department at all. 4 hours waiting on call.

 

6. Advised by TSB staff to go to police to report, drove to xxxx Police station only to be told that Action Fraud should be called.

 

7. Called TSB internal number found on internet and spoke to someone who claimed to have blocked account,

however on testing, was still able to get into accounts.

 

8., xxxxx, returned to xxxx branch including paying for coffee and sandwich.

After more hours on phone, finally got through to fraud department.

promised a call back at home.

No calls received.

 

9. xxxx, visited branch again in afternoon due to no contact from TSB.

 

10. xxxxx, received call from Craig Brown TSB complaints dept, requested an invoice via postal service.

 

11. xxxxx Posted invoice to address given by Mr kilt wearer.

 

12. xxxxx 2018 attended xxxx branch to attempt contact with fraud department, still unable to get through.

 

At 1300 was told to leave and that Branch manager would action an internal incident report, which was accepted at the time.

 

From you I am claiming full payment of invoice presented and sent to TSB Bank head office.

 

I have calculated this sum onxxxxxxxx standard rates.

These are rates that xxxxxx normally charge unless other rates are negotiated in terms of longevity of contract.

 

Listed below are the documents on which I intend to rely in my claim against you:

 

1. xxxxxx Standard hourly rates.

 

2. Invoice as sent and received by TSB.

 

3. Implied contract from TSB Bank stating that ‘No customer will be out of pocket’

 

In accordance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct

I would request that you provide me with copies of the following documents:

1. Copies of all e mail correspondence betweenxxxxxBranch Manager concerning the circumstances surroundingxxxxxfraudulent activity on accounts.

 

2. Please provide all telephone call transcripts made to your numbers in relation to the business accounts.

So as to prove any wasted time and subsequent claim.

 

3. ANY call details in which a request was made for resetting memorable information and passwords on the accounts.

 

4. Along with those requests, please provide details of whoever in your company facilitated a ‘one time ‘ password to be sent to the mobile number xxxxx 2018.

If this was an automated process , please state what human intervention protocols TSB Bank provided whilst fraudulent activity was going on into 3 separate accounts and also on 3 separate transactions into those accounts within a short period of time.

 

5. Details of algorithms in place at the time of fraudulent activity which would prevent any such fraud, if any.

 

6. Please provide full details of how fraudulent payments were made and facilitated by TSB Bank from the accounts.

 

7. Details of what steps were taken by your staff in order to prevent fraud on the accounts.

 

8. Please provide details of what steps were taken by TSB Bank staff to make calls and or texts to the above number, also to the alternative contact number provided and e mail address to confirm identity.

 

9. If your staff made no such attempts, please confirm in writing to this effect.

 

10. We also require ALL correspondence and call logs information given.

 

I can confirm that I would be agreeable to mediation and would consider any other system of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) in order to avoid the need for this matter to be resolved by the courts.

 

I would invite you to put forward any proposals in this regard.

 

In closing, I would draw your attention to paragraphs 15 and 16 of the Practice Direction which gives the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failing to respond to this letter before claim.

 

I look forward to hearing from you within the next 30 days.

 

Should I not receive a response to my letter within this time frame then I anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you.

 

Yours faithfully,

Edited by dx100uk
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not being funny but this case of suing for your time etc sounds a bit Freeman of the land twaddle to me.

you need to be very careful upon what you can realistically get out of this by issuing such a court claim.....

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi dx, thanks for your advice,

it's not a claim for wasted costs as such.

It's based on an invoice submitted due to having to take time away from a contract.

 

The personal stuff is removed as this will be part of an ongoing formal complaint.

TSB state no customer would be out of pocket, this forms a contract.

 

Unless I'm missing something

Edited by dx100uk
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I would remove the references to documents you intend to rely on, and documents you seek, as that should follow if you go on to issue a claim.

You can also (separately) DSAR then for those documents directly pertaining to you.

 

I agree with dx you should avoid “just claiming for your time”

You should phrase your claim in terms of losses you have suffered and can demonstrate, so instead of “wasted 10 hours of my time”, “10 hours spent on calls causing me to lose 10 hours working on contract X”

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New cpr states to request documents up front,

 

I'm trying to follow this as close as possible so they have no room to wriggle.

 

Agreed on hours spent as this is covered in supreme court ruling.

Edited by dx100uk
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so, sent lba, just received a 'we're sorry' note from tsb, saying they will be looking at an extra 4 weeks. this is after theyve failed on the 8 weeks allowed by the ombudsman. im wondering whether to apply to the ombudsman as well, not that theyll do much, just another nail in tsb coffin

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  • 1 month later...

Hello , no updates just a bump for Bankfodder if theyre around. No response from TSB regarding LBA, there was 2 week requirement for documentation that they've ignored. still no movement on their complaints, 8 weeks past and a further 4 weeks in

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Sorry, I'm still awake and I'm simply using a phone

 

Back later this week and much more next week

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