Cabot/shoos claimform - yorkshire bank OD - stayed 4yrs - now SJ threat

[robingetz]

Hi Andy,

 

Brilliant, thank you for this, it's really appreciated.  I'll submit this to the court this week.  Then just sit and wait until the 10th for the hearing.  I might have a few more questions nearer the time, about the process, but I'll have a break from this for a few days.

 

Thanks again

[robingetz]

On 24/06/2019 at 13:04, Andyorch said:

Witness Statement Overdraft.pdf 291.26 kB · 4 downloads

Hi Andy 

taking this to the court today, do I need to send a copy to the claimant

 

thanks

[dx100uk]

claimants sols

 

dx

 

[robingetz]

Thanks sent today

[robingetz]

HI

 

Received this on Friday, after submitted statement to court and to shoosmiths, which they received today, so I'm not sure what they are trying to prove now.  I'm guessing it's just another frightener, to highlight how much more it will cost me.  Any thoughts?

 

Thanks

costs.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Quite normal.....doubt they would get a 3rd of that if successful...still its their choice to  litigate on random disputed statute barred debts.

[robingetz]

So Wednesday's the day.  The closer it's getting, the more nervous I'm starting to feel.  Although I sort of know what to expect, is there anything I should know or do to prepare?

 

What exactly do I need to do during the hearing? 

 

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

Not much to do during the hearing except answer questions as the Judge asks...it will be over very swiftly so make sure what you state is worthwhile and good enough to deny them their application...you only get one shot at this...make it count...say your piece and dont clam up with nerves....stick to your statement and make the judge ask the claimant why they did what they did......and whats the reasoning.

 

Statute barred will be the focus...as defendants 2 default judgment is a none starter as they served to a previous address knowing full well the current address and serving your to the correct.

 

Best of luck

 

Andy

[robingetz]

Got another letter from them on Friday with a counter argument to my witness statement and a revised (increased) charges sheet, I’ll not bother uploading it.

 

So am I right in thinking that the judge will have read all the evidence beforehand and will have a good idea of what the outcome will be

[AndyOrch]

Fixed costs in small claims

1.1 Under Rule 27.14 the costs which can be awarded to a claimant in a small claim include the fixed costs payable under Part 45 attributable to issuing the claim.

1.2 Those fixed costs are the sum of –

(a) the fixed commencement costs calculated in accordance with Table 1 of Rule 45.2;

(b) the appropriate court fee or fees paid by the claimant.

 

With regards to the Judge being prepared and reading all the evidence.....its your duty to question him and ask ...

 

Andy

[robingetz]

Andy 

 

just noticed while preparing what I’m going to say tomorrow that the account number they are claiming on is the incorrect one, so doesn’t match the bank statements they sent, I don’t know how I missed it but does that leave their argument worthless, even though I haven’t mentioned it in any statements

 

Every letter they have sent and the account number they referenced in their statements are wrong.

Edited July 9, 2019 by robingetz

[dx100uk]

brilliant well spotted

[AndyOrch]

Simply state to the judge that you/we have never held an account with the agreement referred to by the claimant.....but you wish to defend the application irrespective until such time the claimant can confirm the correct account number,

[robingetz]

Lost, can’t believe it, judge ignored the different account numbers as I hadn’t mentioned it previously and ignored all my evidence, gutted wasn’t expecting that.

 

so now what, I guess it’s a ccj

 

[dx100uk]

judge lottery sadly.??

you can never protect against that.

 

 

[robingetz]

They are all in it together, the judge and solicitor spoke as if they were best friends before the hearing, and to me as if I was something she stood in.

 

Not exactly surprised, no faith in the justice system 

 

Is that the end of it, is there nothing now I can do

[dx100uk]

can you not appeal?

if the statements of payments do not match the litigated account number surely they cant be correct?

 

have we seen them?

 

[robingetz]

Maybe but I have put so much on here I don’t know for sure.  I’ll put them on later.  I still find it unbelievable that the wrong account number was not considered 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Judge wasn't called Judge Shoosmith by any chance ? 

 

You will have to expand if you want any feedback Robin  ...no mention of false service...statute barred...?

 

DId you both get CCJs ?

[robingetz]

She was obviously on good terms with their solicitor, I must have just been unlucky on the day to get her, she clearly had no time for us.

 

It's difficult to expand without showing you the documents involved in full, as I have to remove any identifiers and the fine detail, so if there is any private section of this forum were you can view the full documents, I am happy to upload them.

 

However the main points that I got from this experience were.

1. It wasn't as relaxed and informal as I expected, which threw me into panic mode straight away.

2. The judge and solicitor used a lot of legal terms, and to be honest I was out of my depth, and should have maybe had a legal rep myself.

3. She dismissed the fact that the account number on all the letters from them was different to the account number on my statements, because I hadn't mentioned it before the hearing, I just noticed it myself the day before, and said she believed that the 2 account numbers were from the same account.

4. She was more interested in grilling me as to why I had left the overdraft at the time unpaid, then put me under oath to swear that I never made those payments, and threatened me with contempt of court if I lied.

5. She wouldn't let me answer on my wife's behalf and grilled her, she didn't know what to say as I had been sorting this out, so she agreed to the default judgement, and never wanted to be there in the first place, she was obviously distressed, judge never questioned us or solicitor about the letters being sent to her to a previous address.

6. So both defences were struck out and both given CCJ's, so ordered to pay the full amount (which will go to a debt collector, which annoys me more, I'd rather give it Yorkshire Bank) and costs of £1500.

 

I knew within minutes of the hearing that it wasn't going to go our way.

 

In hindsight I would have researched more and prepared more, but it's the first time I have been in that situation, and thought the judge would have been more sympathetic, but you learn by experience.

 

I plan to appeal as I believe I was stitched up, but I also will pay to avoid a CCJ, I don't need being lumbered with that for 6 years, and I will seek legal advice and be more prepared.  I have sent Yorkshire a SAR to see if they come up with anymore information, but I don't know if they will still have anything 13 years since the account was closed.

 

Thank you for all your help on this forum, it's invaluable.

Edited July 11, 2019 by robingetz

[AndyOrch]

I personally wouldn't throw any good money after bad...you most probably would get the same Judge and your appeal application dismissed.(you have to request permission to appeal) We cant prepare for Judge Lottery circumstances in these cases and can only hope they  are weeded out over time and consumers get a fairer justice system...there are good Judges out there who implement Credit Consumer Law in accordance with the Act...but far and few between.

 

Pay it and move on and learn form this.

 

Andy

[robingetz]

So even if the Yorkshire can confirm that the account number that they claimed against was never mine, you still think it would be a waste of time appealing.

[AndyOrch]

Well she wasn't interested in the debt being Statute Barred...or the fact they used a previous address to attain default judgment whilst knowing the current address...far more significant points than the wrong accounts number being referred to in its particulars.

 

Appeals are based on error of law being applied...although they should be based on lack of common sense and the Judge applying their own opinion....but sadly not.

[robingetz]

OK fair enough, probably won't bother.  Out of interest how long do you have to appeal?

 

So, if I pay within a month, the CCJ won't appear on my credit file, is this correct?

 

And, can you negotiate a lesser amount as full and final settlement and not have the CCJ registered, or is the amount final and non-negotiable?  

 

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

Correct if paid by the date stated......you can then request a Certificate of Satisfaction if you wish from the court.

 

No you cant negotiate a fresh Judgment amount...possibly if you refused to pay them and after 4 years if they have not tried to execute the judgment in the meantime they may consider a F&FS.