Need help, Hceo Took Car

[djones78]

It was a personal debt and nothing to do with the business in any way.

[ploddertom]

When the Writ was issued then at that time all your goods became bound and could not be sold unless with the authorisation of the HCEO and any funds so realised would then belong to them. Sad to say but in reality them removing the car was all above board.

[djones78]

Oh ok the car was purchased at the end of last year, it was by a family member but obviously went into my wife's name.

 

So that means any goods acquired after the writ is included?

 

Also I am currently paying another HCEO (have been fine for a while now) as trying to sort my debts, how would that work with their writ?

[ploddertom]

Going back to how this came about.

 

How was your agreement to pay monthly arranged?

 

If you are only paying £20 per month then I'm afraid to say you will be paying very little off the outstanding debt - possibly as low as £5 per month.

 

Are the Enforcement Agents aware of the implications of the Cat C on the car?

 

Originally did you receive a Notice of Enforcement when CES became involved?

If so do you still have it?

 

The Writ commands the Agent to attend your premises even if you make an arrangement to pay?

Did this ever happen?

 

It is still not too late to submit an application for a Stay of Execution.

 

Have you made CES aware of this as the other one should take preference?

 

Might be worth giving us a history of this one as well but on a separate thread.

[djones78]

I have photos of the original paperwork, to my knowledge no one attended but I do have the original envelope,

 

One of the agents said to the other this will get £4000 at auction I said I doubt it as its a previous Cat C and has done 130k and was not in the best condition.

 

in addition the amount was £1892

 

Although where it says Writ number it is blank

 

"Have you made CES aware of this as the other one should take preference? "

 

This one was from around 2013 well before this one but has been paid on time every month and is also ongoing

Edited July 2, 2018 by dx100uk
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[dx100uk]

They do now. try https://certificatedbailiffs.justice.gov.uk/

 

Opps never realised that had changed from old...ta

[ploddertom]

Given the history of the car

- if it were to go to auction it would have to be declared

- then that would have detrimental impact on the price raised and would guess £250 may be generous.

 

Therefore to my mind the Enforcement Agents have not used due diligence as to the value and have solely done this in order to garner fees for themselves & their company.

 

I don't doubt for one moment they will deny any knowledge of being advised about the car, did they by any chance have Body Worn Cameras?

 

Your other Writ if nothing untoward has happened still goes under the old Regulations from before April 2014. CES should be made aware of its existence.

 

Have you checked the Register to see if the are Certificated?

[djones78]

One of them was using a Body Camera. So in regards to the other writ does that mean they should not have taken the car? As after a year is it not active anymore? Sorry been given so much info today from CAB etc..

 

IN regards to them I cannot see what the names are I can just about make out one surname on the paperwork but that's it.

[ploddertom]

A Writ only lasts a year but can be renewed on request.

 

In your case I think I would be submitting a new SAR request and make sure it includes a request for a copy of the BWV recording,

this should also show whether the Writ was renewed,

how payments have been apportioned.

 

The cost of this is now £0,

you should also be thinking of applying for a Stay of Execution.

Form N244 - cost is £255 but if on certain Benefits or low wage then the fee may be waived in whole or in part.

 

See https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/apply-for-help-with-court-and-tribunal-fees for details.

 

If necessary we can help you fill the forms in

Edited July 2, 2018 by dx100uk
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[djones78]

So I should send a SAR to CES? asking for a copy of the recording? DO I do this in writing or email?

 

I will certainly fill out the N244, what should I put as a reason any thought?

 

Thanks to everyone on here you have all been really helpful

[ploddertom]

Hopefully dx100 can help with the new SAR.

 

There are a few grounds I can think of for a Stay but as I know we have prying eyes I will send a message to one of the Site Team to pass it on to you but that may be tomorrow now.

[djones78]

Thanks PlodderTom much appreciated

[dx100uk]

although the new sar is free, thus negating one reason why postal services needed to be used..I've yet to see enough evidence that emailing an sar IS a good thing to do alone at present.

 

it might be better to send it via 1st class and get free proof of posting from any PO counter.

that's all you need, proof it was sent.

 

just click sar and read the posts in the thread

[djones78]

One other thing is when my wife was clearing out the car they said to leave the sat nav but this is nowhere on the paperwork that they took it. Is that important?

 

The only thing listed is the car and the sat nav was one that goes on the winscreen

[mariner51]

No one is 'tarring you with any brush'.

You allededly 'sold' the vehicle to your Co for 450 GBP yet failed to pay agreed payment on due date of Sale,

at which time the debt + accrued expenses became due. If the car sells for less than due debt, you remain 'on the hook' for the shortfall.

[djones78]

I am sorry mariner if my post sounded rude it was not meant that way, I had paid the monthly payment before the sale of the vehicle.

 

With the condition and being a previous write off the values I got online for the car was for £1000 roughly and that's from places that always knock done the price. Surely this would have been an "exempt" item from being bound by the writ in the first place due to being required for work for my wife in the business.

 

I am aware I will still be liable and am not trying to get out of this. There was no "allegedly" selling of the vehicle it was an honest sale to lower costs of running.

[Bailiff Advice]

 

With the condition and being a previous write off the values I got online for the car was for £1000 roughly and that's from places that always knock done the price.

 

Goods belonging to the debtor become bound under the terms of the writ. In simple terms, that means that you are prohibited from selling or giving away any goods. There is also the problem about selling goods at an undervalue. By your own comment above, you visited online sites known for 'knocking down the price' and even that site valued the vehicle at roughly £1,000. Therefore, you would have known that 'selling' the vehicle to the limited company at just £450 was not 'fair consideration'.

 

The payment agreement that you had with the enforcement company at just £20 per month was extremely generous indeed. It is not supposed to be the case that a payment arrangement for debts enforced by a High Court Enforcement Agent can be set up without a visit being made. What were the circumstances for the company accepting such a low repayment?

[Bailiff Advice]

Surely this would have been an "exempt" item from being bound by the writ in the first place due to being required for work for my wife in the business.

 

There is a great deal of misunderstanding about vehicles and whether or not they are considered exempt (from seizure).

 

When the Taking Control of Goods regulations were introduced in 2014, I drafted a number of 'Sticky's' for the forum. Not surprisingly, this one regarding motor vehicles (and exemption etc) has been the most popular (with over 18,000 views).

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?456387-Bailiff-enforcement...Can-a-bailiff-take-my-car-....Is-my-car-exempt-...I-need-my-car-for-work-etc

[ploddertom]

I assume you have been left paperwork detailing the goods seized/removed? Can you tell us what is on that paperwork exactly as described or alternatively put up a copy of it ensuring any recognisable bits, name, address, reg no etc are suitably redacted. best done as a PDF.

[djones78]

Hi PT one form is called a Notice after entry or taking control of goods says date ref etc.. on the second sheet they have filled out its a car, the manufacturer, the model , reg and colour

 

On the second lot of paperwork Called the Notice goods have been removed for sale or storage the same details on the second sheet but where it says how to collect your goods they have left the storage location etc.. blank

 

This car was essential for business as it was used to collect stock and deliver stock between shops, also to visit customers and suppliers.

 

The Price was based on some work needing doing i.e Tyres etc.. hence why it was sold to the Limited Co in the first place so the company could bear the costs of running and maintaining the car. If the car was tip top then yes it would have been sold for more but work required needed to be taken into account.

 

The Payment arrangement I agreed with SEW and started paying straight away and did so up until this months being a few days late (I know its my fault) but without the said vehicle now it will make it extremely hard to receive stock and everything in association.

 

I do not know if it matters or not but no notice at any point was placed on the car when they clamped it but they did stay the whole time sitting in their car.

 

On the notice after taking control of goods the Location and Time has not been filled in either.

Edited July 3, 2018 by dx100uk
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[ploddertom]

Would not make a lot of difference as there is no safety net for Ltd Co's so no exemption.

 

Do they have the keys?

Do they have the V5?

I note what you said earlier about a Sat Nav - do you have any proof it was onboard? Would not be surprised if they deny its existence.

Was anything else left on board - tools, maps, clothes etc

[ploddertom]

When they attended did they attempt to identify any further goods that may have been available to them to try & settle the debt? Did you deny them entry to your home?

[djones78]

IN reply to previous,

 

We still have the keys and the green slip, the logbook is with the DVLA since the 28th

 

The sat NAV no proof but he was leaning in the car so his body cam should have been on. My cleared out most of the other things.

 

nothing else documented apart from the car.

 

He did try and gain access by trying the door but was locked and i refused access.

 

I did even offer him the money from the sale but was refused.

Edited July 3, 2018 by dx100uk
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[ploddertom]

Thank you, will start putting something together.

[djones78]

Thank you Plodder Tom you certainly one of the kindest persons out there.

 

In additional Sars letters sent as advised too