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steve806

CPM ANPR PCN - car park full claim... Brighton MET College

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Hi All

 

In May I visited Brighton and went to park at the MET College as I had done many time before.

 

However, instead of the college managing the car park it was now managed by CPM.

 

The essential difference being that you used to pay in cash but now you have to pay over the phone to Just Park (not that you could tell how much as no signs showed the tarrif).

 

After parking in the half full car park I saw a number of people in discussion in the middle of the car park.

 

I approached and asked what was going on and they advised that they were all trying to call Just Park to pay for parking and kept being told the car park was full .

 

After much discussion everyone agreed we would park and leave a note on our cars advising we had tried to pay and would be happy to pay if contacted.

 

A week later I received a PCN for not buying a ticket.

I had wrongly assumed the site would have a parking warden but of course the ticket was issued based on photographing my car on entry and exit so my note was never seen.

 

I appealed the PCN based on the message saying the car park was full and requested they review their tickets for the afternoon as there would be an above average number of tickets issued due to the other people who also left messages.

 

Today I have received a letter rejecting my appeal on the basis that the car park was full as other people had paid in advance for the spaces so by parking I was obstructing other drivers from using their designated areas.

 

It says I should have refrained from parking and contacted CPM for advice.

 

I repeat the car park was half full when I arrived and almost empty when I returned to my car.

 

The recorded message did not explain why the car park would be full and I dont recall adequate signage explaining this in the car park.

 

Can anyone give any advice on how I might appeal to the IAS?

 

thanks

 

Steve

Edited by dx100uk
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Title updated


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you dont appeal to the IAS, it is a waste of time for reasons given in many places.

 

We need to see the signage in the car park but i suspect that the difference between their system and reality means that they arent actually offering you terms that can be properly read and considered at the time so therefore not a contract that is enforceable under the 2015 Consumer Rights Act.

 

Do not take these people too seriously, they arent honest brokers.

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Hi All

 

For personal reasons I have not been able to deal with this earlier.

 

this is the original letter from CPM and response to my appeal. In the text of this post is my appeal. I will be posting photos of signage later today.

 

Any advice appreciated.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

I write to appeal PCN XXXXX for Vehicle Registration XXXXX on Saturday XX April 2018.

On the 21st April 2018 I entered the car park at XXXX.

After parking I attempted to pay using your telephone number but your system stated the car park was full and would not allow me to make a payment.

The car park was not full and there were many empty spaces.

 

A number of other people were gathered in the car park attempting to pay when I arrived.

 

I and a number of other drivers left notes in our windscreens explaining that we had attempted to purchase a parking ticket but had been unable to do so.

 

I would request that you review both your system for the date concerned and the above average number of PCN’s that will have been issued as a result of your system failure which will support my statement.

 

I would hope that given the circumstances I have outlined UK Car Park Management will recognise that my failure to purchase a ticket is as a consequence of a failure in your payment system and cancel this PCN.

 

I look forward to your response.

CPM Appeal.pdf

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Shame you identified yourself as the driver!

Shot yourself in the foot there

 

Link in post 2 please


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so now you do nothing and wait for them to do their worst.

 

You don't say why you were there, if invited by anyone at Brighton MET then you have a solid reason as to why none of their silly demands apply to you anyway and that is called superiority of contract.

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For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

 

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement 21st April 2018

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 2nd May 2018

 

3 Date received 7th May 2018

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] Y

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Y

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal] Y

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Y

 

7 Who is the parking company? UK Car Park Management

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Brighton Met College, Brighton

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IAS

 

Signage photos below:

sign 1.JPG

sign 2.JPG

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It's a shame that this was ever appealed at all. It arrived out of time to create keeper liability. CPM had already stuffed themselves :sad:


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Hi All

 

Can anyone offer advice on my next steps?

 

I have until Thursday to appeal to the IAS.

 

thanks

 

Steve

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you don't bother.

read post 7.


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today I have received a 'Formal Demand' which says payment is overdue and that if I do not pay within 28 days of the date of this notice the fee will rise from £100 to £149.

 

Of course the notice is dated 5th July and didn't arrive until 11th July so 6 days lost already.

 

Continue to ignore?

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you need to read like threads steve

cag is self help too

cant see you've read any other threads related to your issue...

 

who's that from?


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Steve806, give me your address and I'll send you a "demand" for £50 million. :lol:

 

Whoever they are, they can demand what they want, it doesn't make it lawful or mean that they're going to be getting any of it.


We could use your help

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

 

 

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.

 

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you havent lost anything because you arent going to pay them,

ask yourself what consumer credit agreement you signed that allows them to add this extra unicorn food tax?

 

Once you start to understand what is going on the sooner you will relax and take it all in your stride.

yes, these companies do sue people but they lose when you point out all of the defiencies of their actions and claims.

 

This being a prime example of just making it up as they go along to scare you into paying them a higher sum than they can ever lawfully ask for because you may think it will go up again.

 

was it £100 in the first place?

they made that up as well becuase the decision of PE v Beavis said that £80 want an "unconscionable amount"

so they have shoved it along to £100 because at that level people still pay rather than lynching the parking attendant.

 

 

today I have received a 'Formal Demand' which says payment is overdue and that if I do not pay within 28 days of the date of this notice the fee will rise from £100 to £149.

 

Of course the notice is dated 5th July and didn't arrive until 11th July so 6 days lost already.

 

Continue to ignore?

Edited by dx100uk
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Hi All

 

Following research on the site and kind advice given I wrote to Brighton Met College who own the car park and sent a copy to UK Car Park Management.

 

In my letter I advised the college I did not accept the charge was fair and reasonable. I asked if they had given authority to take legal action on their behalf and asked how the charge of £100 was made up.

 

To date the college have not responded but this morning I received a letter from CPM.

 

In paragraph 1 they reassert their position that I was illegally parked.

 

In paragraph 2 they advise that although they do not own the land they have a legal contract with the landowner that entitles them to issue PCN's.

 

Paragraphs 3, 4 and 5 provide a lengthy explanation of how the the charge has been set in accordance with Parking Eye v Beavis, has then been ratified by the Supreme Court and as a consequence has ended the debate regarding the genuine pre-estimate of loss. They advise that if my claim is for disproportionate fee it cannot be used as a reason for appeal. They encourage me to read a copy of the judgement which provides clarity for the Parking Industry and warning that in court they will refer to this judgement in evidence. I guess this is probably a standard set of paragraphs to all disputes? Am I correct?

 

Paragraph 6 states that a decision has been made and I should now pay the debt owed. They advise as I have not engaged with the IAS Standard Appeal within 21 days I can now only appeal through the Non Standard Appeal Service. They commit to engaging with the service if I submit an appeal within 21 days.

 

Last paragraph states how I should pay and warns of extra charges if I don't.

 

Should I respond to them? Should I chase the landowners for a response to my letter?

 

Advice welcomed.

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doublt if they used the word illegal its not a criminal matter

 

always better to scan letters up to PDF read upload

rather than typing out what you think the letters says.


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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our advice is dont write to them and have a silly argument with a fool, they will beat you hands down by experience.

Now yoy are back on their radar so they think that having given you a wonderful answer you are now honour bound to believe them and pay up

So, you have thrown away your protection under the POFA and now want to play letter tennis. Is there any advice we can give you that you will take not of.

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Eric, I am a bit confused by your response. I was encouraged to read other threads and followed advice from keywords which suggested I should write to the landowner and copy in the Car Parking Company to:

 

1. Refute the debt

2. Ask if they had given legal authority to the Car Parking Company

3. ask how the figure of £100 was calculated

 

Are you saying this was the wrong thing to do?

 

best

 

Steve

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no one has ever said copy to the car park management company, we want the landowner to sort out the mess without just passing the buck so that is the opposite of our advice.

 

It is also the reason we say never email these matters or they just forward the email. By writing you can at least have reason for complaint if they just pass it on as it will be a breach of the GDPR if you dont specifically say that they can. We expect them to say cancel the charge number XXXX and not use your details.

So what you have now is the worse of both worlds, the landowbner is ignoring you and the parking co have you on their mugs list and know what your defence will be based on if they try it on in court.

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Eric

 

The advice under heading 'ignore' in post 12 says to send a copy of my letter to the landowner to the parking company so that is what I did.

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