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    • Thanks @lookinforinfo.   The text is updated:   1.       This case is often quoted by the claimant as assisting their case. However, in this instance it actually assists mine. It is contended that the act of stopping a vehicle does not amount to parking. This predatory operation pays no regard to the byelaws at all. It is likely that this Claimant may try to rely upon two 'trophy case' wins, namely VCS v Crutchley and/or VCS v Ward, neither of which were at an Airport location, which is not 'relevant land'. The Airport land is subject to the Airport Byelaws as specified in 'Section 63' of the Airports Act 1986 [EXHIBIT A]. Both cases involve flawed reasoning, and the Courts were wrongly steered by this Claimant's representative; there are worrying errors in law within those cases, such as an irrelevant reliance upon the completely different Supreme Court case. These are certainly not the persuasive decisions that this Claimant may suggest. Furthermore, VCS has been running the parking business at airports over the years it would be expected that they would become familiar with the Airports Act. Unfortunately, they choose to neglect and deny the Act in their Witness Statement.
    • Hi Mango,   Please don't post in large blocks of text as it's far harder to read. Spacing added for you in the post above.   Please give brief answers to UncleB's Q's above so we can better assess your case, thanks.
    • "These are certainly not the persuasive decisions that this Claimant may suggest." Well worded.   I would add that as VCS have been  active in Airports over the years  that one would  expect they would be familiar with the Airports Act which would call into question the accuracy of their WS.   By questioning their WS you are hoping that VCS might decide not to turn up in Court [giving you a walkover] as they might not want the Judge looking closely at their WS. Also it would not be good for them should you win your case based on the Airports Act as it will have other Courts  kicking out other Airport cases hitting them in the pocket.    
    • Hi,   Still no response. I have my Liability Order hearing in a few days time, I was hoping I might have been able to receive a response from either my local councillor or the leader of the council before then. I wonder if they are just going to ignore my email?   Walshy    
    • I have got an  independent expert report which clearly states it is a manufacturing fault, which DFS have been made aware of.   My point is that as a huge retailer of leather sofas with leather peeling  being a common complaint to me it seems evident they are aware it is a manufacturing fault on their side. Yet they play games with customers and worse of all try their level best to get the customer to believe that it is their fault due to oils or creams they are using.   Even if one is to believe that every day creams etc can cause this damage then in any event the sofas are not fit for purpose.   Surely they are merely playing a numbers game banking on the fact that most complainants will not follow through with legal action. Yet what about the anguish and distress they cause to customers in the process.   To me this shows alot of contempt towards consumers and is clearly unethical.
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    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
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      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
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      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
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      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
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    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
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Hi all,

 

I resigned from my part-time job in Sainsbury's on 4th June 2018 for theft of Nectar points on the till, i.e. crediting my Nectar card with £110 worth of points.

I was in absolute bits when I was hauled in and questioned over it because it was only then that it hit me, although at the time of course I knew what I was doing. I was a genuine dickhead for doing what I did because he was a decent manager and I abused his trust.

 

At first the store manager wasn't sympathetic and alluded to the fact that police might be involved.

However later on because of the dates (I had been working there for more than a year and the first occurrence of this was on 21st May 2018) and because he knew my character and that I really didn't enjoy working there at all we had a chat

 

was very kind and advised me to resign so I wouldn't have to attend the investigatory meetings during my contracted working hours (I also had a holiday booked at that time so it couldn't have been worse timing). My Nectar card (registered with a false name and details) and colleague discount card were also taken.

 

I've gotten back from holiday today to a letter form the DWP stating that I must pay £150 within 14 days to cover 'security costs' (by 25th June), however a breakdown of the sum I am supposed to pay back doesn't detail figures of any sort, simply £ signs, and then underneath this sum they say I'm supposed to pay.

 

in addition it states that it was one incident that occurred on 4th June when I wasn't even in the country let alone still working there, as opposed to when it actually first occurred on 21st May,

 

I used the points on a small number of basic groceries in store which to my understanding is what they could legitimately pursue me for (£12/£13 at stretch), but vast majority of the points were spent on eBay so I'm wondering if it would go that far since my Nectar card was taken.

 

From what I've read so far I'm supposed to ignore the letters however as I was a former employee I don't know what could happen if i don't pay up.

Also I would like to know what sort of reference would be given in this instance when applying for jobs (I have a degree and have been applying for jobs for the past year but with no joy).

 

there is nothing stated relating to police charges and fines I haven't received any direct correspondence from Sainsbury's themselves.

I'm already out of a job, can't seem to find something that utilises my degree and my parents are always extremely unhelpful and always demanding unreasonable amounts of money for unclear reasons directly and indirectly so paying the fine would put me in an even tighter spot financially.

 

They do not know about this and of course would kick up an almighty fuss if they did, so any advice on what to say in terms of my newfound availability of time would be great.

 

This was a hard lesson learned and although I grew to hate working there, I'm more disappointed in myself for letting down my former boss and the people I worked with (a couple of who contacted me afterwards and said they thought it wasn't a big deal, but I'm still paranoid about it). At no point did I take money from any till and have never done so in any previous job.

 

I have attached a picture of the letter for reference.

Any help would be greatly appreciated and thank you to CAG and co for what is already available.

IMG_2497.JPG

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its DWF not DWP and you totally ignore them.

 

it is NOT a fine either

 

its money to line their pocket do they can go away on holiday

Sainsbury don't see a penny!!

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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My understanding is that the fact that it was an employee means the store (& DWF) have more chance of pursuing for security costs.

The fact that it was a member of staff and not a customer distinguishes this from the Oxford case.

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It would've been the Eagle Eye software that flagged up a discrepancy, the fact that one particular Nectar card was used an abnormal number of times on a checkout you were logged into.

 

This software is automated and requires very little human interpretation, the chances of Sainsbury's pursuing you for security costs is in my opinion very small, it would not be cost effective for them to take legal action.

Start every day off with a smile and get it over with.

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To further expand on my reply,

 

If the nectar card concerned was virtually only ever credited with points on a checkout you were logged into then after a certain period of time this would be a red flag for Eagle Eye.

 

Ironically if you'd taken money from the checkout this would have been a lot harder to link to you as each checkout is often used by multiple operators in any given day and the only real way of linking an individual to a cash theft is via CCTV or doing a search and finding them with the money.

 

This is time consuming and is far more likely to be pursued through the courts by Sainsburys.

 

The fact that Sainsbury's has farmed this out to DWF is a strong indicator that they have washed their hands of it.

Start every day off with a smile and get it over with.

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And as a former employee nothing more will come out of it?

 

Also how long might they be sending these letters for?

 

I can't comment on the recovery aspect of this, but it isn't the case that "nothing more will come out of it".

 

This can be mentioned in any reference given for you.

Or the employer may refuse to provide a reference

- which can be even worse as the assumption of other employers is that you've done something far worse.

 

And if you are claiming benefits, the DWP will contact the employer to confirm your reason for leaving, so you are probably going to be sanctioned.

 

Doing this sort of thing is never "right" but dishonesty in employees is generally considered a serious matter.

You really need to try to get some work through agencies or something similar

- absolutely ANY work

- to get a new employers reference.

And don't ever get caught in dishonesty at work again.

 

Preferably not any dishonesty, but definitely not at work.

People have ended up unable to get a job for years because of stupidity like this.

 

Hopefully it won't come to that here, but you need to realise just how very serious this is in terms of your employment potential.

You've been lucky.

 

It was not just theft - it was fraud and theft.

They could have called the police.

They could have not let you resign, but sacked you.

Please don't take such chances with your life again.

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Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

 

Employee theft 'may' be treated as a more serious case than shoplifting crimes as this is because of the abuse of trust. Whether Sainsburys will take action against you is unsure at the moment. DWF can do no more than send you letters with veiled threats but actually mean nothing. Listing security costs as a reason for chasing you is neither here nor there as even if the store security was involved, they are paid to do it and this cost is part of the stores base costs.

 

 

The role of the manager is to oversee all the running of the store and that should include employee theft however if that is NOT the case then theoretically they could bill you for his time but in my opinion that is unlikely.

 

 

I would ignore everything from DWF however if you get anything from a solicitor titled 'Letter Before Action/Claim' come here first and let us see the letter.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Would you say it's safer to just pay the £150?

I really don't want to risk any chance of getting the police involved so even if Sainsbury's don't see any of it I just want it over and done with without the potential to get police involved, even though it has been a while.

 

From what I know they go to to store manager primarily for a reference if required and considering his response at the time he won't mention it, however if it's from head office I'm sure they will and the idea of an affected reference is bad enough.

 

Now I realise just how stupid I was and I'm a lot smarter than that

- despite the pressures I face and lack of support at home, I still chose to take those actions.

 

I don't claim benefits and I live at home.

I don't want people to think of me as a dishonest because I know that is not what I am at all.

 

In terms of references would it be generally seen as acceptable to give references from individuals other than my most recent or current job, or suspect?

 

Thank you so much for your help.

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god no don't pay DWF, they are nothing to do with IF IF IF this did go anywhere

and it WON'T stop that by paying a 3rd party...!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I agree with DX. If police action were to be considered that is a different ball game. DWF have no authority to pass the case on to the police. Any action should the police get involved is separate to what DWF are claiming for and if you were unlucky enough to have a visit from the feds, this would not stop DWF claiming their pound of flesh.

 

 

Ignore them. They may be a firm of solicitors but their power over you is nil.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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But my worry is that if they don’t they’ll tell Sainsbury’s and then they might be triggered to do so. I’m just wondering if they might given it’s been nearly three weeks and I resigned rather than be suspended and attend the investigatory meetings/dismissed.

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As the police were not involved at the time the offence was brought to your attention, it's highly unlikely they will do so. The letter you have clearly states there is a nil value for stolen goods/points so how could the police do anything with a no value claim.

 

 

I have not heard of any case that was passed on to DWF or RLP where the police have got involved after the event and it's been a few years as well. Worrying over what 'might' happen is doing you no good whatsoever whereas knowing what 'WILL' happen should assist your thinking.

 

 

 

DWF Will continue to send letters. Once the letter process is complete DWF WILL stop writing to you. What MIGHT happen is that they may try and use the debt collection route and use a DCA to contact you which means nothing. DCAs have less power over you than I do.

 

 

By paying DWF does not stop any police proceedings IF they have been started. We nor you know whether any action has been started by the police and DWF can't pass the details on to them. Sainsburys could but they are likely to consider the matter closed as you have resigned.

 

 

MY opinion is that the police will never get involved so it won't do you any harm by ignoring DWF

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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for as lonmg as they get paid to write them. As sainsburys chip into a scheme for such things I would expect DWF to send 3 or 4 letters as their contractual obligation and then ask Sainsburys if they want to chuck some more money into the pot.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all,

 

My mother has said she has tried to contact Virgin Mobile in regards to getting a contract phone but apparently it is on record that there is £150 owed by her because of this.

 

Sainsbury's and DWF has not contacted me at all via post or telephone in regards to doing anything like this at all.

Is this legal?

should I ignore it?

Many thanks for your assistance once again.

 

Kind regards

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In other words, this is attached to my address so I'm in a pickle as to what to do. Should I just pay and have it taken off? i know this approach they've taken is far from legal but it seems they've attached it to my address and I did not steal money so I don't know why they're acting as if I have, but I really don't want further repercussions. Thanks again.

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Sadly it isn’t “far from legal”.

Whilst any credit check done on your Mum might show a link to you / you sharing an address, and she can have a “notice of notice of dissociation” placed on her credit report, Virgin don’t have to offer her credit / a subsidised phone.

Why not buy the phone ooutright and use Virgin PAYG or a different network?

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Okay, so if I do pay will this be taken off? Can she and I have a have a “notice of dissociation” on her report? How do I go about it? I don't entirely understand as DWF haven't contacted me at all about it and it has nothing to do with anybody else in my household.

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Honest to God, the two aren't connected. My mother only found out about this because of her enquiry with Virgin and came to ask me. I have never been with them.

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Honest to God, the two aren't connected. My mother only found out about this because of her enquiry with Virgin and came to ask me. I have never been with them.

 

What I was meaning was is it a coincidence? I wonder if it's worth your looking at your and your mother's credit refs further.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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