Euro Car Parks - debt recovery?

[1mper1um]

This is my 2nd run in with ECP.

First one, about forgetting to purchase a ticket, was dropped by them after their follow-up letter which nicely increased the demand from £60 to £100.

 

This time I made sure to buy a ticket but overran the allowed time (I think I was 6 minutes over a 3 hour limit but the letter didn't stipulate). I received, and promptly forgot, their first letter and was away for the final 2 weeks of the 28 days they gave me to appeal their second letter.

 

I went to lodge my appeal and was told: 'No further appeal can be made against this Parking Charge Notice (PCN) – the PCN has been forwarded to Debt Recovery Plus Ltd. All/any communication must now be directly with Debt Recovery Plus Ltd who’s contact details are on http://www.debtrecoveryplus.co.uk or telephone 02082346775.'

 

This to me implies they've sold the debt to a DCA rather than do what they've threatened in the past which is to take me to court and push for a CCJ.

 

To me this is just a non-credit related issue and one that cannot result in a default or CCJ against me, damaging my credit rating, nor is it anything that can result in legal action, and so is something I shouldn't be concerned about. Am I right?

 

The charge itself is excessive - £60 (later increased to £100) for overstaying on a ticket is in breach of what they can charge and as I understand it, they can only claim for lost earnings - which would simply be the cost of a ticket to cover the extra minutes I was parked.

 

Having previously laughed off a DCA when I did receive a default on a credit card debt, I'm not bothered at all about a DCA chasing a parking ticket, assuming my understanding of the situation is correct.

 

And if I am right, isn't it bizarre that a parking company renowned for taking legal action has decided to wave the white flag and sell on to a DCA?

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited June 14, 2018 by dx100uk
Spacing

[dx100uk]

Please complete this

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

[dx100uk]

It hasnt been sold to a dca..

Read their letter properly!!

 

It says our client...

 

Yes you can get a CCJ and yes it would show on your credit file

 

A dca is not a BAILIFF

And has ZERO legal powers

[DragonFly1967]

If you were 6 minutes over the time allowed, sit back and let them do their worst. Don't respond to a single thing unless and until you receive a letter before action from ECP.

 

Both the IPC and BPA (of which ECP is a member) Code of Practice for AOS Members states that a grace period must be given, and that that grace period must be a minimum of 10 minutes. So you've got nothing to worry about here

 

 

You'll get the usual threat-o-gram chain from Desperate Recovery Pass, but they're very carefully worded to stay on the right side of the law (just), and they are nothing to worry about.

[1mper1um]

It hasnt been sold to a dca..

Read their letter properly!!

 

It says our client...

Don't shout at me to read their letter properly when I already posted exactly what was said, that it was on their website appeal section, and that there's no mention of 'client'!

 

I also checked their letters and there's no mention of 'passing to a 'client', DCA, or anyone else.

 

 

Here are the answers you requested:

 

Date of the infringement

05/04/2018

 

 

Date on the NTK

Letter 1: 12/04/2018

Letter 2: 14/05/2018

 

 

Date received

18th May (letter 2)

 

 

Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?]

Yes - paragraph 9(2)(b) of schedule 4

 

 

Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

Just 2 pics - supposedly of my licence plate upon entry and exit

 

 

Have you appealed? {y/n?]

Too late to appeal

 

 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?]

N/A

 

 

Who is the parking company?

Euro Car Parks

 

Where exactly [carpark name and town]

Aytoun Street, Manchester

 

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

POPLA

 

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS.

BPA

 

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

Letter 2 states I have missed the appeal deadline and that the amount due is now £100.

[1mper1um]

If you were 6 minutes over the time allowed, sit back and let them do their worst. Don't respond to a single thing unless and until you receive a letter before action from ECP.

 

Both the IPC and BPA (of which ECP is a member) Code of Practice for AOS Members states that a grace period must be given, and that that grace period must be a minimum of 10 minutes. So you've got nothing to worry about here

 

 

You'll get the usual threat-o-gram chain from Desperate Recovery Pass, but they're very carefully worded to stay on the right side of the law (just), and they are nothing to worry about.

I assume it was a 6 minutes and a 3 hour ticket although I can't remember. I believe minimum purchase is 2 hours. All the letters state is that I was clocked entering at 5:50pm and leaving at 8:56pm

[fkofilee]

If they have clocked you at those times then i think this will be a no brainer... Thats their times... Not yours...

[DragonFly1967]

Ahh, re-reading this, you've not yet had a letter from Desperate Recovery Plus. Is that correct?

 

 

It'll be that letter (from DRP) that refers to 'their client'.

 

These parking charges don't get sold to the likes of DRP. Instead, DRP are paid about £15 to write you some scary letters. They'll also inflate the price to £160 for the first 2 or 3 letters, and then it'll drop again to (usually) £129 as they become more and more desperate to part you from your money.

 

Don't fall for any of their waffle, a flat battery has more power than these clowns, they're just paper tigers They'll imply that not paying them will bring you all sorts of woe's, stopping just short of threatening to sell your family in to slavery to pay the "debt" (you know, the debt that you don't actually owe), but it's all bluff and bluster to make them feel important.

[renegadeimp]

Also those times are from entry and exit. Not the times you were actually parked.

[ericsbrother]

You have fallen for their trap and misunderstood the reality of what has happend because they want you to misunderstand

Both they and DR+ make more money from ignorance than they will by pointing out the truth of the matter, which is that the bill cant go up and they cant sell it on ( see MIL collections hammerings in court)

 

So, ignore DR+, they have nothing to do with anything,

dont bother going to a parking co website for advice an ditto a DCA or even the worlds greatest solicitors-Gladstones- as they all have reasons to misguide you as their livelihood mostly depend on misrepresentation and even fraud.

 

As for the rights and wrongs of a court claim

- anyone can sue anyone over anything,

it is only when the claim is contested do you find out what is possible.

 

I can sell you Tower Bridge and sue you if you dont pay me for it despite not owning it Why? contracts old boy, contracts.

They have nothing to do with the other inconveniences of lack of authority until it gets to court and you slap in a counterclaim...

Edited June 18, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[1mper1um]

Ahh, re-reading this, you've not yet had a letter from Desperate Recovery Plus. Is that correct?

Correct.

 

Don't fall for any of their waffle, a flat battery has more power than these clowns, they're just paper tigers They'll imply that not paying them will bring you all sorts of woe's, stopping just short of threatening to sell your family in to slavery to pay the "debt" (you know, the debt that you don't actually owe), but it's all bluff and bluster to make them feel important.

Thanks. Am I right in assuming the most I owe is the cost of a ticket to cover the extra time I stayed - whether that's 2 hr 6m, 1hr 6m or just 6m (in which case I'm covered by the 10m allowance you mentioned?

 

the bill cant go up and they cant sell it on

Well I never knew that! Cheers!

 

the rights and wrongs of a court claim- anyone can sue anyone over anything, it is only when the claim is contested do you find out what is possible.

So where do I actually stand?

You say anyone can sue anyone in court but have they got a leg to stand on?

 

As much as I want to fight this I'm not going to risk a CCJ over £60 (or even their inflated figure of £100).

And though they say further costs can be incurred as they chase me for non-payment, are they legally allowed to do so?

 

Thx in advance.

[DragonFly1967]

Well, if 2 hours was paid for, then strictly speaking they are within their rights to ask the keeper to name the driver or cough up £100. Providing they get the procedure right. But they can't make you pay unless they take you to court and win.

 

If 3 hours was paid for, they've got absolutely no right to ask either the keeper or the driver for a single penny.

 

 

You'd think that you'd just be able to pay for the extra time, but unfortunately not even Council car parks work like that and PPC's certainly don't. They'd be out of business within about 10 minutes. No great loss when it comes to 99% of them

 

 

 

Ultimately, worst case scenario. If they take you to court, and ECP don't normally... They've tried it a few times and had their arses handed to them on a plate, usually by the Judge!

 

 

First of all you dispute their added £60 (which has been added for debt collection). As while this *might* be on the signs at the car park that the driver *might* have agreed to. As keeper, you are not a party to that contract and you never agreed to anything to do with "additional recovery costs". So, whilst these might be recoverable against the driver, they certainly aren't against the keeper and the POFA makes no allowance for those charges to be claimed from the keeper.

 

So...

 

Parking ticket £100.

"So called" solicitors costs £50.

Claim fee £25. A lot of people fold at this point, and that's what they're counting on.

Hearing fee £25

Interest to date of judgement: Usually about £4

 

So the absolute maximum that you're risking is £204.

 

Now, that's assuming that you lose at court (if it gets that far).

 

 

The only way they'd get a CCJ registered against you is IF you lost at court AND didn't pay what you were ordered within 28 days (I believe) or as ordered by the court. So, if you lost, as long as you pay up before the date that you're ordered to, no CCJ would ever appear on your credit file.

[ericsbrother]

show us the signage in place at the time and we can advise on the liklihood of any claim being successful

 

generally they are stuffed because they cant write a decent sign that makes a binding contract and even where they are close they dont get planning permission for them and so commit a criminal act anyway.

 

We will also need to see the blurb on the payment machine as that is the actual contract in this case so deviation from the signage is important.

 

Stop overthinking this and read up on it, you are no stranger to this site so do your homeworka dn come back to us.

Edited June 18, 2018 by dx100uk
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[dx100uk]

its also worthy to note that majority of the shopping centre car park that the part of the original undertaking secured by the council at the time of granting its use as a car park typically ensured 3hrs free parking.

no-one can over-ride that unless the council have agreed to the change.

 

 

we've seen that so many times here too.

[1mper1um]

Not had chance to go back in the past week to get the signage but will do next week.

 

In the meantime I have received the debt letter claiming additional costs and warning that if I don't comply that they'll advise their client to take me to court.

 

Should I reply to them?

Tell them they can't add charges and even if they do they're not applicable to the keeper and that I'll happily have my day in court?

Do I just write straight to ECP and say all this - letting them know it's more hassle than it's worth for them to chase me?

 

Thx

[dx100uk]

no

[ericsbrother]

agreed, as these are hollow words from someone who has nothing to do with anything you ignore them completely. As for the parking co, let them waste their money chasing you. Dont invite then to even remember who you are.