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Fixed Penalty Notice for Spitting inside land area . pl help

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Hi All,

 

I have been issued a FPN for spitting on a bush inside the land from where the Street is around 10 feet away in Hounslow.

 

The foremost thing is , I am not aware of this offence at all. i DONT SEE ANY NO SPITING SIGN BOARD ANYWAY INSIDE OR OUTSIDE the land.

 

There is an office in that land . When I came out of the premises I felt some saliva struck inside throat and before enter into street ,I spitted on the bush grown in front of premises. Oh suddenly I saw an officer came running towards me and started to say I committed an offence as spitting on bush which has been recorded so that a FNC will be issued. I really shocked . The penalty is £80.

 

I clearly explained to the officer came from the council that I ddnt know anything about this law and also promised him I will never do it again. He was very adamant and never accepted my cry. He issued a FPC and told me to pay at the council.

 

Its really a miserable situation for me. After that I just googled for spitting and penalty . I get only the penalty for spitting on the streets. Even though without keeping a sign board NO SPITTING , how can I avoid doing this ? I dont understand this type of enforcement at all.

 

Please advise me how to appeal and make the council to waive off this unfair and irrational penalty .. I will be very much thankful for all those who advise.

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It is a local bylaw - and apparently a very popular one as most right minded people see it in a similar way to dog cr*p being left in public places - it is a pretty disgusting practice for most people. I believe the bylaw covers spitting in public, so whether on the street or not would probably be irrelevant

 

There wouldn't have to be a board there to warn against it so long as the bylaws are published 'somewhere'. There is also the point that there are some things that any reasonable person would find unacceptable

 

I don't believe you can appeal as such, but you could probably opt not to pay and have the case heard in court? They would probably say though that you should have used a handkerchief/tissue/your hand/swallowed it rather than spit, even into a bush

 

Sorry, not a lot of help in avoiding the penalty. Others may know different


Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

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Dont spit, its a disgusting habit

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Dont spit, its a disgusting habit

 

Generally yes . I too hate it. but some situations made people to do it as they find no way in getting tissue , kerchief etc.. suppose one induced to vomit all of a sudden as he coudnt control and vomit in a road side , will law punish him ?

 

I dont know .. They have given a address to write if penalty not paid. I can write explaining.. I am also jobless , no benefit too. Staying with relative..

 

Can I request to pay a small amount monthly instead of paying in full ?

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It is a local bylaw - and apparently a very popular one as most right minded people see it in a similar way to dog cr*p being left in public places - it is a pretty disgusting practice for most people. I believe the bylaw covers spitting in public, so whether on the street or not would probably be irrelevant

 

There wouldn't have to be a board there to warn against it so long as the bylaws are published 'somewhere'. There is also the point that there are some things that any reasonable person would find unacceptable

 

I don't believe you can appeal as such, but you could probably opt not to pay and have the case heard in court? They would probably say though that you should have used a handkerchief/tissue/your hand/swallowed it rather than spit, even into a bush

 

Sorry, not a lot of help in avoiding the penalty. Others may know different

 

Funny how you don’t see the police fining all those fairy footballers for spitting in public. Filthy habit and I for one would support that.

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Can I request to pay a small amount monthly instead of paying in full ?[/Quote]

 

See if the FPN has an appeals procedure and use that first. If you believe that it was a medical emergency then that might be your defence

 

As for instalments I don't think they would have that as an option unless you didn't pay and were prosecuted in the Magistrates Court where you might be able to arrange to pay any fine in instalments - BUT - the Court will probably increase the penalty by a significant amount and add costs. You might end up paying hundreds

 

Speak to the Council in the first instance

 

suppose one induced to vomit all of a sudden as he coudnt control and vomit in a road side [/Quote]

 

You would have a defence on medical grounds as very few people would be able to avoid vomiting. With spitting you have a choice to spit or swallow (so to speak!)


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In my opinion it is only ever acceptable to 'spit' is if an insect flew into your mouth and your body reacts instinctively. Even then I'm sure most people would try and do so in their hand or a tissue.

 

I remember being told by an exam invigilator when I was around 15 that spitting is one of the fastest ways to spread Tuberculosis after witnessing a fellow pupil do this in front of the exam hall.

 

As for the penalty, I will be blunt and say I don't have an awful lot of sympathy. You could appeal but I think you should chalk this up to experience and not repeat this in the manner you have told us. Whilst hindsight is a wonderful thing, you could have gone to the toilet in the premises you just left? You could have asked for a glass of water? Or asked someone for a tissue for your nose and disposed of it in the bin - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/catch-it-bin-it-kill-it-campaign-to-help-reduce-flu-infections

 

You would have a defence on medical grounds as very few people would be able to avoid vomiting.

 

I have a medical condition that causes spontaneous vomiting with very little warning as well as incontinence and can concur from experience that this is a valid defence. I have no idea how you can stop yourself from vomiting. If anyone has any techniques then I'm all ears. But sadly I have done exactly this within about 15 metres of 2 Police Officers... Whilst I certainly had to account for my actions as it was a Friday Evening in the city center and the initial thoughts were Drunk and Disorderly followed by drug abuse. I was not given an FPN or arrested. To put some context behind this, the bins in the area had been removed for security reasons as there was a large event going on in the area. The Public Toilets were around 10 minutes walk away and may not have been open and there was no 'area' that was the perfect area to vomit in.

 

Back to the topic at hand though, it seems this was a choice rather than an uncontrollable event and I don't think you'll get anywhere apart from frustration by challenging this. If your finances are such that you cannot afford to pay, then you need to contact the council and provide them a statement of means. This is a bye law offence so this is a criminal matter and not a civil matter. Ignore the penalty and they will very likely pursue it. Byelaw 8 has a Fine Scale of Level 2 (Up to 500) so this could have been much worse for you.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/good-rule-and-government-model-byelaw-8


This is how I spend most of my life :ranger:

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Footballers have been done for spitting in public.

Thing is football grounds are not public spaces so a footballer spitting on the field does not contravene a by-law.

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