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Can I hold a Director personally liable for fraud?


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Hi

I understand that a new bribery law came into effect last week and I wonder if it will apply to those payments received by landlords or associated parties in respect of the buildings insurance .Although the 'b' word is not used in this connection as preferring a selection from ''commission,contingent commission ,bonus ,discount ,referral fee etc.'' one can't help but detect a similarity.

Also as this culture of payments to landlords is admitted for the insurance one should ask whether the same applies to managing agents.Whilst not applicable to Forcelux as they are effectively their own managing agent the question needs to be asked for Regis/Countrywide and Westleigh/Gateway. This might account for the difference in fees charged by Forcelux/EFS [ apprx £125 per unit /yr] and the other two [approx £200 per unit /yr].

legrun

 

I am just considering this and contemplating taking court action against unregulated property manger who took a secret commission

Edited by dx100uk
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I am just considering this and contemplating taking court action against unregulated property manger who took a secret commission

 

the thread you have posted to is over six years old. I suggest that you start a new thread of your own, tell us your story and tell us what kind of help we can give you.

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Hi All,

 

This is my first time posting on this site so my apologies firstly if I am not posting in the right part of the forum.

 

Background

 

A secret commission was taken and redirected to another bank account where there was no paperwork.

 

Charged me an additional item in the contract where there is no obligation to pay it.

Changed scope of insurance where it was not like for like and left a risk off I am now not covered for however I was previously.

 

Challenged property manager about all this and find they are not who they say they are....not FCA approved to sell insurance, not a RICS member and they do not belong to a property redress scheme, not registered as ICO Data Controllers etc...

 

So can I sue the Director personally for recovery of secret commission plus interest and rescind contracts with property mana:mad2:ger and broker who between them took the secret commission?

 

All help and guidance appreciated. It is not great sums of money however I am very angry and I cant stand dishonesty.

 

Many thanks for reading.

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Yes you can, but the court will set a very high bar in terms of the quality of evidence

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Thank you Bankfodder, I have a lot of evidence and all the companies I have contacted have confirmed things in writing to me.

I have not sued a person or company before so I am not sure how to do this?

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Thread moved to General Legal Issues Forum.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Well you have just posted here..in General Legal Issues ? :-)

We could do with some help from you.

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DOH! Thank you Andy......

So it would seem I can sue a Director or Company secretary on the grounds of fraud.....I have contacted the police who stated they do not have the resources so I am now going to file a letter of complaint to the IPCC as this is a fraud case with an insurance broker. Doe anyone have experience of any case law or experience of taking any insurance brokers to court?

 

Thanks for your help.

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I'm not sure of the right answer here in terms of suing people, but you say in your first post it's not huge sums of money in question.

 

Maybe the starting point should be https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/report-[problem]-unauthorised-firm reporting them to the FCA.

 

On their website the FCA suggest if you lost money you should report to Action Fraud too.

 

Just a thought.

 

EDIT: the link doesn't work because the word s cam is part of the address, however if you go on the FCA website and click the 'consumers' tab there is a button to click to report a s cam which takes you to the same page.

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Thanks for your response SuperVillian...I have submitted a complaint to the FCO and FCA and they are now investigating the Broker....I am going for Bribery Act, Fraud Act and Misrepresentation Act....I have also asked for rescission of contracts and damages.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi All,

 

I wonder if you could help me with some legal guidance or sign post me to the best place to get help with a company secretary of an unregulated property manager who took a secret insurance bribe which I flagged up with the Directors of the property and are doing nothing about it....

 

I contacted the FCA as this company secretary should not be negotiating insurance deals as not FCS approved, the more I look in to his alleged qualifications, he does not stack up.

 

The Directors have also charged for other stuff I am not legally obligated to pay for yet try to insist I pay and now it has become a dispute where they have made false unfounded allegations about me which are not true just before I have demanded a meeting to be held to challenge them....its harassment however now what can I do as they are clearly trying to put me in a bad light because I am challenging them?

 

Could go to FTT and wonder if I have enough to get a manager appointed...does anyone have experience of going this route?

 

Thank you for your help.

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Is this the same situation you asked about here?

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?487634-Can-I-hold-a-Director-personally-liable-for-fraud&p=5124631#post5124631

 

What did the various regulators you referred it to say?

 

Is this a dispute between you and the managing agent about service charges for a leasehold property you own?

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Hi Ethel Street,

 

I contacted the Financial Ombudsman and they have only just started to investigate the matter so it will take months with no certainty of outcome...as can be law unto themselves!

 

 

I have challenged everything now as I have realised that I have been charged stuff I am not obligated to pay and discovered that the two Directors running the show are not paying their monies for some stuff so they are in breach of their leases.

 

 

Now one Director is making false allegation about me and its getting nasty

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But is this connected to the above thread ?

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Threads merged...please keep to one thread per same issue.

 

Im not familiar with false allegations template ?

 

 

Andy

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What, exactly, did the director of the company do that you reckon to be fraudulent?

 

Not much point complaining to the ICO as this is not a data protection issue. Not much point complaining to the FOS or the FCA unless the defendant is a regulated financial services company. Not much point complaining to the police over a private dispute. Your regulator is the county court by bringing a small claim.

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Thanks....

I have explored all avenues...

 

.FOS have accepted a complaint and done nothing yet!

 

I complained to the Ombudsman

-the property manager is unregulated and misrepresented himself as RICS and also not a RICS member...

.the Director took a secret commission bribe and hid this and put it through a secret bank account where there was no paperwork.

 

Also he obtained an insurance policy and included stuff which I am not obligated to pay for and because it was based on fraud

 

the contact has been based on unfair terms and is not enforceable as such.....

 

I have complained about broker as well to FOS and OFT..

.I would need to sue the Director and hold him personally liable but need to pierce the corporate veil...

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.the Director took a secret commission bribe and hid this and put it through a secret bank account where there was no paperwork

 

have you written proof??

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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.the Director took a secret commission bribe and hid this and put it through a secret bank account where there was no paperwork

 

have you written proof??

 

Yes because I challenged him and he firstly said the monies would be for claims handling

however when I checked him out because he did not stack up,

 

I found he was misrepresenting himself as RICs,

not registered with any complaints redress scheme,

not registered with FCA which you need to be

 

I went back to the broker and stated that under FSA rules if an insurance company is asked to disclose what commissions have been taken then they need to declare this so they told me.

 

I have this in writing so I took this to FOS however how to get redress against a Director as they are hiding behind corporate veil.

 

I even went to the Police and Trading standards they said its is a civil matter

so how do I take a limited company to court?

I think it is a criminal matter.

Edited by dx100uk
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May I ask what outcome you are seeking here please - are you looking to have the director punished or are you seeking a refund of money you paid? That will help people suggest the best way to take this forward.

 

Am I correct to think that the property manager arranged insurance for your property, and got paid a commission by the insurance company. And that you think the insurance is more expensive than it would have otherwise been. Is that was your complaint is fundamentally about?

 

By the way, the OFT ceased to exist in 2014.

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Yes the broker confirmed the proof and I have it in writing

 

Thanks steam powered.

 

I want the recovery of the monies and rescission of all contracts as the contracts have been based on fraud.

 

Contract with property manager and broker.

Edited by dx100uk
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There really isn't enough information here about what's going on to answer the question you ask in the thread title.

 

I also think this is about the insurance policy that the managing agent has arranged for leasehold flats(?),

one of which is owned leasehold by Starstuff26 but this is still to be confirmed.

 

You say that you want recovery of monies and recession of insurance contracts.

I don't know whether that's achievable but even if it were why would you want to leave the flats uninsured?

 

And why do you want to hold the director personally liable for it?

If the company (managing agent?) has done something wrong surely your remedy is to sue the company?

 

And you want to sue the insurance broker as well but I'm not clear who they are or how they are related to the property manager and managing agent.

Are they an independent company?

Are they FCA registered?

Did they arrange the insurance contract?

 

I would wait until you have had a formal response from the FCA and FOS before doing anything more.

 

When you say "Yes the broker confirmed the proof and I have it in writing" but surely the broker didn't write to you and say "yes we paid the director a secret commission bribe and hid this and put it through a secret bank account where there was no paperwork"?

 

Didn't they just write and tell you the cash amount of commission paid and who they paid it to?

 

It's your interpretation that it's a bribe etc isn't it, not what they've said?

Edited by dx100uk
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