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VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

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Hello everyone

 

Last August (2017) I parked in a small carpark outside a parade of shops and went to have lunch with family.

 

There was no pay & display machine and I genuinely thought it was free parking.

 

Some time later, I received a letter telling me that my registration number had been detected on the way in and out of the carpark and I had overstayed the allowed amount of time. They wanted me to pay a fine.

 

I ignored the letter, believing that it was not enforceable, and also ignored one or two reminders.

 

A few days ago I received two pieces of correspondence.

 

One was a Particulars of Claim from the parking company, filling two pages, quoting a Claim No. and with an accompanying letter saying that a copy had been filed with the court.

 

The other was a Claim Form from County Court Business Centre.

 

This also included information in the Particulars of Claim box but, interestingly, this particulars of claim was different and very much briefer than the one sent to me.

 

I'm not sure if that is significant.

 

The longer Particulars (the one sent direct to me) mentioned such things as "failure to adhere to advertised terms & conditions", "breach of contract for failing to adhere to the terms & conditions" and that their terms & conditions were "accepted by conduct" (ie presumably by me parking).

 

They are claiming £160 plus £25 court fee, plus interest.

 

My contention is that, no matter how obvious they claim the signage to be, if I didn't see them then they were not obvious enough. Surely it is their responsibility to make sure I see it, not mine to look for it. If I didn't see a sign then I couldn't have agreed to their conditions and no contract was made. Unfortunately, the carpark is nearly 100 miles from where I live and I cannot easily go back and check the signs.

 

I have seen a sticky thread (with the confusing title ' CPR 31.14 Request to use on receipt of a PPC') which suggests I should ask the parking company for a copy of their contract with the land owner. Surely that is confidential and they will refuse/ ignore my request? The same with asking for copies of planning consents relating to erecting signage. What if the documents cannot be secured in time for me to use them in my defense? Is there any way for me to ask the court to suspend action while I wait to receive requested information from the claimant?

 

I am up for fighting this, if you guys think there is much chance of winning, but I am not very confident about this sort of thing. If anyone is prepared to hold my hand and walk me through it, I'll have a go. Can anybody help me?

 

The issue date on the court Claim Form is 21 May 2018.

 

Thanks,

 

John

Edited by Joh7n

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I think you should start off by telling us which company is it who is suing you. Also, have you been back to the car park to check the signage? This would be a good idea.

 

Please will you post up the claim in PDF format. Make sure it is redacted for identifiers, of course


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Please complete this

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465231-Received-a-Court-Claim-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***Updated-Aug-2016***

 

So we have all the correct info to help you

 

Yes get that CPR running and do Acknowledgement of Service

Edited by Andyorch
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we can help yu but you will have to tell yourself you are going to win this and the doubts you have regarding the truths surrounding certain things are easy to overcome. Think of it like this.

 

As it stands you are £185 out of pocket so anything you do that reduces this is a win.

 

We think that it is unlikely that you actually owe anything at all. the £160 include monies the parking co cant lawfully claim from you so even if you lost the actual claim for breach of contract you will only owe £100 at most so a saving of £60.

 

Now, we need to know a lot about the event and what you have still got in the way of paperwork. so start off with the where and when, what letters have you received and when, do you still have them.

 

Next we need to know about where.

We need an exact location

we want pictures of the entrance to the land from the public highway (we can google the place as well) and

pictures of the signage there,

both at the entrance and

any different signs that are elsewhere on the land

 

. we need to know how big the signs are

, how many and whether they are illuminated or not (even by a streetlamp).

If the signs are partially obscured by wheelie bins or trees we need to know that as well.

 

Once we have the full where we will get you to do soke digging on who owns the land and whether planning consent was granted for their signage (they need it regardless of what they claim)

 

Lastly we can pick holes in their claim as being inadequate for the purposes of CPR's but that usually just gets them an instruction to do it again

 

so your skeleton defence Will partially be around this as they have failed so far to show a proper cause for action as the claim is too vague to determine why they are claiming form you and in what capacity (driver or keeper).

Edited by DragonFly1967
Added paragraphs. Content unchaged

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Thanks Guys

 

Yes I will post PDFs of the relevant paperwork, as soon as get home and figure out how to do it. I'll have a good look to see if I have any other correspondence. There is a chance I could get someone else to check the signage for me. The carpark is in Sheffield which is a long way from North Wales where I live, but I have family in that direction.

 

dx100uk

 

 

Yes get CPR running and do Acknowledgement of Service

 

What does that mean?

 

ericsbrother,

I don't understand why, if I lose, I could only owe £100. Would you mind explaining in idiot-proof language for me.

 

I'll try to get everything done that you've all asked for in the next few hours. In the meantime, thanks you all very much. I'm very grateful and I'm looking forward to a possible punch-up, so as to speak.

 

John

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CPR = Civil Procedure Request CPR 31.14 and AoS ...acknowledge service of the claim form


We could do with some help from you.

 

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

    Donate button Give something back to the Consumer Action Group   

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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If you turn up at court and point out that the POFA only allows the parking co to claim the amount originally invoiced from the keeper then the maximum charge is £100.

 

The signage may well have blurb about adding extra recovery costs but the keeper hasnt agreed to any contract so they are only liable for the monies due as a result of the breach of contract.

 

The claim will fudge this rather important detail so you need to be in there and arguing against the extra bit.

 

The claimant may well then fall foul of the newer rules on proper filling out of the claims form and they will get that £100 reduced to as little as £50 for their naughty behaviour.

 

Something to consider even if they have a watertight contract via their signage and letters ( they wont, they arent bright enough to get it right and too greedy to care anyway)

 

tell us where it was and we can start looking on google streetview and be ahead of the game

 

Sheffield is a bit too vague and you still havent named the parking co.

 

Both are important, nealry all parking co's have previous form we can refer to and that will includ ethier standard letters, which solicitor they use and so on.

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Thanks for that ericsbrother. That’s good to fall back on.

 

Right, before I scan & post the docs, here are some further details:

 

Parking Co: Vehicle Control Services, Sheffield

 

Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall Rd, Sheffield, S11 8PN

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Title updated


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located the place and there is a sign at the entrance.

 

Firstly it is on the LHS of the entrance so any driver cant read it as they go past it.

 

Secondly the sign itself says you have to read the other signs for the contractual terms and that means it isnt a contract but an invitation to treat and that means you dont have to accept the terms of the subsequent offer and still park there.

 

The other signs arent readable from any distance and arent illuminated so wont be legible at night. That means the signage will struggle to be considered as offering anything at all.

 

VCS have plenty of history for rubbish signage and then lose their claims. They have given up instructing solicitors as they lose less money by shooting themselves in the foot rather than getting someone else to shoot their toes for them.

 

Now sheffield have their planning applications available through a portal so should be easy to look up any recent applications but you may need to phone the planning dept to ask them about PP for VCS.

 

Also check whether the planning consent for the development has anything regarding parking in it, many do say 3 hours parking and that cant be altered by some bandit parking co nor even the landowner without getting new consent.

 

lastly there is a sign saying the palce is managed by some other company. I woudl bet that the VCS contract is with them and not th landowner. that menas it is unlikely the landlord has assigned the right to VCS to make money out of suing people in their own name and that means they have no locus standi and cant win a claim cos the law says they have no right to sue.

 

You will need to sedn VCS a CPR 31.14 request for information to see their contract with the landowner and their planning permission. They wont respond but by not doing so they ruin their chances of getting anywhere.

 

Lastly the sign says that you agree to be bound by the unreadable signs if you stay there for more than 10 minutes. well, that makes any claim a claim for a contractual charge and they are suing you for breach of contract, which is different.

 

Like saying you are the driver/keeper, it is one or the other, not both and that is something to stick in your defence to get the judge to put all of these things together and makea bigger picture when they may be not thinking they are good enough on their own (they should be, the POFA is explicit)

Edited by honeybee13
Paras

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Wow ericsbrother, that is amazing. Very impressive. Thank you very much. I’m itching to get stuck in now.

 

Unfortunately, I’m away for a couple of days with work and may not get an opportunity to post while I’m gone.

 

I’ve had trouble getting my scanner to work properly and so have not been able to produce the PDFs of the correspondence.

I’ll sort it all out when I get back.

 

In the meantime, if I get any free time I’ll start drafting the CPR 31.14 request.

 

Thank you all again for your advice, especially ericsbrother, who has gone to so much trouble.

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You dont need to draft a cpr simply print and send our one

You need to get that done now...


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

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PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

1. Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

2. Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

3. Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

4. The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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Hello Guys

 

Right, here are copies of the documents you have requested. I'd like to say once again how grateful I am for your help and impressed I am with your knowledge.

 

The parking incident was on 23 Aug 2017

 

Acknowledgement of Service done online yesterday, 29 May 2018

Claim Form.pdf

Letter Before Claim.pdf

Particulars of Claim.pdf

CPR 31.14 Request.pdf

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Please put all your uploads into one multipage pdf

Else we'll be here all day downloading

 

Read upload


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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Please put all your uploads into one multipage pdf

Else we'll be here all day downloading

 

Sorry guys, I misunderstood the instructions. Each one of these is a small multi-page document. I'll know for next time.

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ok


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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had to hide them all

poc has case number showing

 

cpr not needed we know what our template says

 

letter before claim has ref no's

 

clamform has case ref and password

we don't need to see a claimform we know what they look like


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

1. Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

2. Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

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Ok, thanks dx100uk

 

Unfortunately I am at work at the moment on a late shift, but will modify and re-submit them in the morning.

 

I enclosed the Claim form because it contains POC which are different to the ones sent direct to me and contained in one of the other docs.

 

The CPR is similar but longer than the one on this site. I got two different templates and combined them.

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then we don't need to see other templates either please

respect their copyright

 

ideally the two pocs need to only be typed out in a msg box here

 

NTK is the only thing we need to actually have a scan of please


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

1. Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

2. Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

3. Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

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Hello again Guys,

 

RThe Acknowledgement went in early.

 

The CPR 31.14 expired several days ago and asked for their contract with the land owner, planning consents for signage and copies of the NTK & any other correspondence from them to me.

They have not replied.

 

The Claim was dated 21 May, so I think my defence needs to be in the 23rd June.

What do I need to do now?

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21st is 1 in the count

by 4pm 22nd

 

use the std defence in about every claimform thread in this forum

#


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I've read your booklet "Received Court Papers from a Private Parking Company (PPC) Speculative Invoice??

How to deal with it here".

Is that the standard defence you referred to?

It's very good.

I have some questions, though:

 

I have asked for planning consents for signage and they have not responded.

Can I now claim that the court should assume that no such consent exists and that the PPC cannot now show evidence to the contrary since it has been denied to the defendant, despite a CPR request?

 

Can I similarly claim that no contract exists between them and the land owner for the same reason?

 

Can I claim that I never received a NTD/K showing evidence that I overstayed since that was also requested in the CPR?

Does this mean that they can not now show the photographic evidence to the court?

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Yes use the 3 line defence here already


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1. Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

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