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National Car Credit/Moneybarn - BMW car not fit for purpose


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Hi, just some advice on where I stand with the following.

 

On the 11th of June 2017 I bought the following vehicle ----------- from National Car Credit - financed by MoneyBarn

 

I have had problems with the goods from the start a list of which is listed below:

 

  • The dealer has still not sent me any documents related to the vehicle.
  • I have not received the documents from the DVLA.
  • I was told that it had an MOT. It transpired that it had no MOT. It had expired on the 30/05/2017 but I was only informed on the 21/06/2017 after randomly calling them to find out when the MOT expires
  • I was told that it had a full service history but it transpires that it did not.
  • The service book has not been sent to me
  • In fact they sent me documents relating to other cars
  • The car was taken in for an MOT on 21/06/2017 which it failed.
  • They did not pay for the MOT and the repairs resulting from the MOT failure.
  • The car was sold faulty and I was guaranteed that they would replace the tyre-sensors. No reply from them.
  • I had to replace part of the exhaust after 1 month where it had corroded - £100.
  • I had to do the brakes and drums which they knew needed replacing - £400
  • The DSC has been problematic and replacement is about - £400
  • The car was not checked or serviced by them.
  • They sold me the car with service and repair documents – when I checked it to see when my car is due a service it transpires that it belongs to another car – this is not the first time this company has done this as a simple google search testifies.
  • They have not sent me the second key which they were going to post.
  • They have not sent me the service and manual book for the car – which they promised as the car was sold with a full service history.

I have sent Moneybarn the e-mail and have been communicating with them.

 

I have had endless repairs done as the company I bought the car from is totally ignoring me now.

I have kept all the records of communication with the dealership and referred it to Moneybarn now.

 

Question is - what an I entitled to.

 

I have requested that they reimburse me for the money spent and fix the car or exchange for another car of equal money,

the Last alternative is for them to refund what I have already paid and cancel the agreement.

 

Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.

Edited by Andyorch
Paras
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Please will you let us know who the dealer is.

 

Under the Consumer Rights Act if a fault materialises within 30 days then you are automatically entitled to a refund. You can accept a repair if you want – but you don't have to.

 

If this is the dealer then I believe that it is unlawful for them to sell a car which is not in roadworthy condition and so if it has failed its MOT then they are certainly committing an offence here.

 

You could also tell us a bit more about the car and the money you paid.

 

 

 

While you tell us who the dealer is – unless you are trying to protect them.

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Not at all.

The company is National Car Credit.

 

This is their website - http://www.national-carcredit.co.uk/

- It is a BMW 318d and I paid 9200 before interest.

Monthly payment is 277.

 

The car failed an MOT but it was also sold without one.

I only found out when I contacted them about something else.

 

They are not replying to me since November so I contacted the lender as they still own the car till I make the final payment.

Edited by dx100uk
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Thank you. I don't know why but I had gathered that you had only recently bought the vehicle but you say that they haven't contacted you since November so that suggests to me that you bought the vehicle earlier than that.

 

Please can you tell us a bit about the history of the purchase.

 

When did you buy it. Over how long a period was the finance?

 

You bought it without an MOT. This is very unusual. Why did it not have an MOT – or did not require one at the time?

 

Presumably you won't aware of your rights under the Consumer Rights Act so you didn't give them any warning that you would want a refund or a repair?

 

You say that you have been communicating with MoneyBarn and they have been communicating with you. Can you tell us about the exchange you have had with them.

 

Have you warned them that you're going to invoke your Consumer Credit rights with them?

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Hi, thanks for the reply. I will attach all the emails I have sent and they have replied to - see below. The phone calls have been every week since then but no reply - to the dealer.

 

 

 

From:

Sent: 18 May 2018 15:35

To: 'Complaints'

Subject: RE: Payee name MONEYBARN NO1 LTD Payee reference

 

 

No, they have not been in contact since the last e-mail and have also not returned calls. You are still not addressing the issue of the service records, the second key, the V5 or the manuals that were supposed to be sent to me. Can you please address these points as I have had nearly a year of this stress with a hell of a lot of money spent on a car that is not up to scratch! I have highlighted in red what the most urgent points are and in bold and red what I expect to be fair. I await your response while you address the specifics please.

 

1. The dealer has still not sent me any documents related to the vehicle.

2. I have not received the documents from the DVLA.

3. The car was sold without an MOT which was failed when I took it in after randomly calling them to find out when the MOT expires.

4. They did not pay for the MOT and the repairs.

5. The car was sold faulty and I was guaranteed that they would replace the tyre-sensors. No reply from them.

6. I had to replace part of the exhaust after 1 month where it had corroded - £100.

7. I had to do the brakes and drums which they knew needed replacing - £400

8. The DSC has been problematic and replacement is about - £400

9. The car was not checked or serviced by them.

10. They sold me the car with service and repair documents – when I checked it to see when my car is due a service it transpires that it belongs to another car – this is not the first time this company has done this as a simple google search testifies.

11. They have not sent me the second key which they were going to post.

12. They have not sent me the service and manual book for the car – which they promised.

13. They missold me the product as they stated that they could only finance the BMW without a deposit as you as the financial provider would not finance a cheaper Ford which was £3000 cheaper, had only 60000 miles on the clock and was a newer model as you wanted a £1000 deposit on that.

14. When contacting them they refuse to discuss how they will fix the car if I take it back to them (a 400+ mile round journey) and have not contacted me again about solutions to the multiple of problems I have faced with this car.

15. Can they provide the check they done on the vehicle before selling it to me as you have stringent quality control on the products you finance.

16. The trail went cold when I asked them to provide a courtesy car while they fix my/your car in November

17. Solutions – the company fully fix the car and reimburse me with the money spent – I will waiver the inconvenience caused and the fact that I was sold a car without a valid MOT as well as tyres that were dangerous to drive with – especially the distance I travelled.

18. I want all documents posted to me asap.

19. I want the second key sent to me asap.

20. They should collect the car, repair what has to be repaired and service the car which is required before the car leaves the forecourt.

21. I want at least a 6 month guarantee from the date they fix the car.

22. Or – they could take back the car and I can have a choice of a car of similar value after a deduction of money already paid.

 

From: Complaints

Sent: 18 May 2018 15:25

To:

 

Good Afternoon ,

 

Thank you for keeping us updated.

 

Have you agreed for a date for the vehicle to be taken to national car credit ?

 

Kind Regards

 

 

Complaints Team

 

 

Email: complaints@moneybarn.com

Website: http://www.moneybarn.com

 

Follow us…

Moneybarn is the UK’s leading provider of specialist consumer car finance. We give those who have experienced credit difficulties in the past the opportunity to own a car. We do this by assessing every customer’s personal history, needs and situation and offering them a responsible and affordable payment schedule. We encourage openness and honesty with our customers throughout the lifespan of our relationship and we will show an understanding of their financial situation. We pride ourselves on our straightforward approach, fast and friendly service and our industry reputation.

 

Moneybarn is the trading style of Moneybarn No. 1 Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04496573, Moneybarn No. 4 Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 08582214, and Moneybarn Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 02766324. The registered address for these companies is The New Barn, Bedford Road, Petersfield, Hampshire, GU32 3LJ.

 

Please note that the contents of this email and any attachments are privileged and / or confidential. If delivery to the intended recipient is not possible for any reason, or this email has been received in error, please email us at

mail@Moneybarn.com to that effect and delete this email from your system. Thank you.

 

Moneybarn is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority

 

 

From:

Sent: 17 May 2018 17:37

To: Complaints

Subject: RE:

 

Hi,

 

Thank you for the documents. You have, however, replied to 1 of 24 points raised. I have attached a running commentary of the e-mail conversations I have had with the car sales team below.

 

 

First line of e-mails.

 

 

Hi Dominic,

 

I am still awaiting a reply to my last e-mail sent last week. As I am travelling from Kent I will need to know the information to make my arrangements. I hope that you can let me know asap.

 

Thanks,

 

From: National CarCredit [mailto:info@national-carcredit.co.uk]

Sent: 01 November 2017 3:24 PM

To:

 

Hi

 

You can bring the vehicle down anytime however would have to leave it us for for the work to be carried out.

 

Thanks

 

Dominic

 

On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 3:22 PM,

Hi,

 

Thanks for the prompt reply. Due to all the issues that occurred the last time we tried to sort out issues with the car in regards to the mot, I would prefer to bring the car down to your workshop where you can fix the faults and then leave after you have fixed it. Please let me know when would be the best time.

 

Thanks,

 

From: National CarCredit [mailto:info@national-carcredit.co.uk]

Sent: 01 November 2017 3:14 PM

To:

 

please forward these detailed quotes

best regards

 

On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 3:04 PM, wrote:

To Whom it May Concern,

 

I have purchased the above vehicle from you in June and since then following faults have developed:

 

Repaired exhaust - Quote was in excess of £700 from Kwikfit

 

Tyres and MOT – have you paid this as I sent you the invoice and you should have contacted the mechanic.

 

The tyre pressure sensors need repairing as you have stated since before I bought the car and that you will repair.

 

Brake pads, discs and sensors need replacing – quote is in excess of £800 at this stage.

 

Handbrake is faulty – no quote as yet.

 

Different warning lights are on.

 

Service light is on as was the case when the car was bought.

 

Could you indicate the way forward with these faults as the car is still under warranty as indicated by you for 6 months after the sale.

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

Regards,

 

Sales Team

National Car Credit

01925 623 680

http://www.national-carcredit.co.uk

http://www.national-carcredit.co.uk/good-credit-finance-application/

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

Regards,

 

Sales Team

National Car Credit

01925 623 680

http://www.national-carcredit.co.uk

http://www.national-carcredit.co.uk/good-credit-finance-application/

 

 

Second

Hi Dominic,

 

That would be great. How long would you take to carry out the work? Would it be possible to drop off on a Friday morning and get the car back on Saturday or would you need the car longer than that? If you need the car longer, would you have a replacement car I can use in the meantime?

 

Thanks,

 

From: National CarCredit [mailto:info@national-carcredit.co.uk]

Sent: 01 November 2017 3:24 PM

To:

Subject: Re: BMW

 

Hi

 

You can bring the vehicle down anytime however would have to leave it us for for the work to be carried out.

 

Thanks

 

Dominic

 

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for the prompt reply. Due to all the issues that occurred the last time we tried to sort out issues with the car in regards to the mot, I would prefer to bring the car down to your workshop where you can fix the faults and then leave after you have fixed it. Please let me know when would be the best time.

 

Thanks,

 

 

From: Complaints

Sent: 16 May 2018 12:38

 

 

Good Afternoon,

 

I am sorry to hear that you have not received documents.

 

I have sent you your contract and welcome pack, attached.

 

Kind Regards

 

 

 

Complaints Team

 

Email: complaints@moneybarn.com

Website: http://www.moneybarn.com

 

Follow us…

Moneybarn is the UK’s leading provider of specialist consumer car finance. We give those who have experienced credit difficulties in the past the opportunity to own a car. We do this by assessing every customer’s personal history, needs and situation and offering them a responsible and affordable payment schedule. We encourage openness and honesty with our customers throughout the lifespan of our relationship and we will show an understanding of their financial situation. We pride ourselves on our straightforward approach, fast and friendly service and our industry reputation.

 

Moneybarn is the trading style of Moneybarn No. 1 Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04496573, Moneybarn No. 4 Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 08582214, and Moneybarn Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 02766324. The registered address for these companies is The New Barn, Bedford Road, Petersfield, Hampshire, GU32 3LJ.

 

Please note that the contents of this email and any attachments are privileged and / or confidential. If delivery to the intended recipient is not possible for any reason, or this email has been received in error, please email us at

mail@Moneybarn.com to that effect and delete this email from your system. Thank you.

 

Moneybarn is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority

 

Sent: 15 May 2018 16:04

To: Complaints

 

 

Thanks for your prompt reply. In the meantime can you please forward me my financial agreements and other documentation related to the finance I have with you as this has still not been sent to me after 11 months.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

From: Complaints

Sent: 15 May 2018 15:34

 

 

Good Afternoon,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

I can confirm that a complaint has been raised accordingly.

 

In general terms, the Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires the vehicle to be free from defects (taking into account the age and mileage of the vehicle) and we will assist where such defects are identified within the first 6 months of the agreement commencing, where the issues are considered to fall outside of fair wear and tear. Therefore, as you have been in possession of the vehicle for around 11 months, in order to assist you, we would require evidence of the issues that you are currently experiencing, as well as evidence of the issues you have experienced in the past and confirmation that these issues were inherent at the time of the vehicle’s purchase.

 

Kind Regards

 

 

 

Complaints Team

 

 

 

Sent: 14 May 2018 10:02

To: Complaints

Subject: Payee name MONEYBARN NO1 LTD Payee reference - Car bought from National Car Credit BMW 61 model

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

In the past year I bought a car financed by you. As far as the finance agreement is concerned, I am very happy with the product. Now the problem is that I was missold the vehicle and I will lay out the problems I have had thus far:

 

1. The dealer has still not sent me any documents related to the vehicle.

2. I have not received the documents from the DVLA.

3. The car was sold without an MOT which was failed when I took it in after randomly calling them to find out when the MOT expires.

4. They did not pay for the MOT and the repairs.

5. The car was sold faulty and I was guaranteed that they would replace the tyre-sensors. No reply from them.

6. I had to replace part of the exhaust after 1 month where it had corroded - £100.

7. I had to do the brakes and drums which they knew needed replacing - £400

8. The DSC has been problematic and replacement is about - £400

9. The car was not checked or serviced by them.

10. They sold me the car with service and repair documents – when I checked it to see when my car is due a service it transpires that it belongs to another car – this is not the first time this company has done this as a simple google search testifies.

11. They have not sent me the second key which they were going to post.

12. They have not sent me the service and manual book for the car – which they promised.

13. They missold me the product as they stated that they could only finance the BMW without a deposit as you as the financial provider would not finance a cheaper Ford which was £3000 cheaper, had only 60000 miles on the clock and was a newer model as you wanted a £1000 deposit on that.

14. When contacting them they refuse to discuss how they will fix the car if I take it back to them (a 400+ mile round journey) and have not contacted me again about solutions to the multiple of problems I have faced with this car.

15. Can they provide the check they done on the vehicle before selling it to me as you have stringent quality control on the products you finance.

16. The trail went cold when I asked them to provide a courtesy car while they fix my/your car in November

17. Solutions – the company fully fix the car and reimburse me with the money spent – I will waiver the inconvenience caused and the fact that I was sold a car without a valid MOT as well as tyres that were dangerous to drive with – especially the distance I travelled.

18. I want all documents posted to me asap.

19. I want the second key sent to me asap.

20. They should collect the car, repair what has to be repaired and service the car which is required before the car leaves the forecourt.

21. I want at least a 6 month guarantee from the date they fix the car.

22. Or – they could take back the car and I can have a choice of a car of similar value after a deduction of money already paid.

 

Just reiterate – I do not have a problem with the financial side of the purchase. It is the manner and the quality of the vehicle sold that is causing these problems.

 

With Thanks,

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thread title update

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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Thanks for the update. Just a quick question. Is this worth pursuing or should I just let it go and carry the financial burden of the repairs and the cost of the car|?

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you ideally should not be responsible for any repairs etc because having to repair a car that close to buying it possibly indicates they were there when you purchased it and the car was thus not fit for purpose?

you should never conduct phone convs without recording them.

 

it appears you reported these issues within 6mts so it was the DEALERS [retailer] responsibility to investigate and put them right under CRA

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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So it is worthwhile pursuing?

 

Am I following the right track by flagging money barn now?

 

Sorry for the questions but I have never pursued something like this before.

Edited by dx100uk
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send complaint to both the dealer AND moneybarn by 1st class post with free proof of posting at the PO counter

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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OK, will do it now. Is the e-mail that I sent okay for that or is there a specific letter I should use? Should it be recorded signed for post?

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you should not be using email or phone follow it up with a papercopy too

you need a papertrail

 

you need to making ref to the consumer rights act. as BF indicated

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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I have added your latest information to your first post and also I have rearranged post number five containing the email exchange into a way that could be understood by people.

 

Please go through it carefully and let me know if there is anything you want to add or if I have made any errors.

 

A quick observation – I wouldn't accept any repairs or any work from this company. I think you are entitled to say that you have a complete loss of confidence and that you want your money back – plus any expenses that you have incurred.

 

We will help you try and achieve this as best as possible. However, please check the amendments I have made. Please also can you be a bit more careful as to how you express your posts and future.

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I'm still waiting to see your proposed letter and also to know what date it failed its MOT

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MOT failure was the 21/06/2017.

 

On the 11th of June 2017, I bought the following vehicle ----------- from National Car Credit - financed by MoneyBarn

 

I have had problems with the car from the start, a list of which is listed below:

 

• The dealer has still not sent me any documents related to the vehicle.

• I have not received the documents from the DVLA.

• I was told that it had an MOT. It transpired that it had no MOT. It had expired on the 30/05/2017 but I was only informed on the 21/06/2017

• I was told that it had a full-service history but it transpires that it did not.

• The service book has not been sent to me

• In fact, they provided documents relating to other cars under the first page which related to the car I purchased

• The car was sold without an MOT which was failed when I took it in after randomly calling them to find out when the MOT expires.

• They did not pay for the MOT and the repairs resulting from the MOT failure.

• The car was sold faulty and I was guaranteed that they would replace the tyre-sensors. No reply from them.

• I had to replace part of the exhaust after 1 month where it had corroded - £100.

• I had to do the brakes and drums which they knew needed replacing - £400

• The DSC has been problematic and replacement is about - £400

• The car was not checked or serviced by them.

• They sold me the car with service and repair documents – when I checked it to see when my car is due a service it transpires that it belongs to another car – this is not the first time this company has done this as a simple google search testifies.

• They have not sent me the second key which they were going to post.

• They have not sent me the service and manual book for the car – which they promised as the car was sold with a full-service history.

 

 

I have had endless repairs done as the company I bought the car from has not made any reasonable attempt to address the issues and I am being totally ignored now. I have kept all the records of communication with the dealership and referred it to Moneybarn now. These have been e-mailed and a copy is attached to this letter. Please also find photocopies of the failed MOT and the documents provided with the vehicle by National Car Credit.

 

I have now lost all confidence in the car, the company I am dealing with and would, therefore, request a full refund of monies already paid and a refund of all repairs I have paid for.

 

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 legislation, it is your responsibility to resolve the matter and would, therefore, ask that this is done within the next 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

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Sorry, can you tell me who this letter is intended to be addressed to

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I will be sending this one to Moneybarn and a slightly different one National Car Credit. This is going to National Car Credit:

 

On the 11th of June 2017 I bought the following vehicle ----------- from you, National Car Credit - financed by MoneyBarn

 

I have had problems with the car from the start, a list of which is listed below:

 

• You have still not sent me any documents related to the vehicle.

• I have not received the documents from the DVLA.

• I was told that it had an MOT. It transpired that it had no MOT. It had expired on the 30/05/2017 but I was only informed on the 21/06/2017

• I was told that it had a full service history but it transpires that it did not.

• The service book has not been sent to me

• In fact, you gave me documents relating to other cars concealed under the first page

• The car was sold without an MOT which was failed when I took it in after randomly calling them to find out when the MOT expires.

• You did not pay for the MOT and the repairs resulting from the MOT failure.

• The car was sold faulty and I was guaranteed that you would replace the tyre-sensors. No reply from you.

• I had to replace part of the exhaust after 1 month where it had corroded - £100.

• I had to do the brakes and drums which you knew needed replacing - £400

• The DSC has been problematic and replacement is about - £400

• The car was not checked or serviced by you.

• You sold me the car with service and repair documents – when I checked it to see when my car is due a service it transpires that it belongs to another car – this is not the first time you have done this.

• You have not sent me the second key which you were going to post.

• You have not sent me the service and manual book for the car – which you promised as the car was sold with a full service history.

 

 

I have had endless repairs done as you - the company I bought the car from - has not made any reasonable attempt to address the issues and I am being totally ignored now. I have kept all the records of communication with you and referred it to Moneybarn now. These have been e-mailed and a copy is attached to this letter. Please also find photocopies of the failed MOT and the documents provided with the vehicle by you - National Car Credit.

 

I have now lost all confidence in the car, the company I am dealing with(you National Car Credit) and would, therefore, request a full refund of monies already paid and a refund of all repairs I have paid for.

 

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 legislation, it is your responsibility to resolve the matter and would, therefore, ask that this is done within the next 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

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Okay thanks.

 

First of all, I think you are taking the wrong approach.

 

Are you aware that under section 75 of the Highways Act 1988 it is an offence to sell a vehicle which is unroadworthy. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/75

 

On the basis that it had no MOT when you bought it and that it failed its MOT only 10 days later, plus the defects which you have discovered, it is clear to me that the vehicle was unroadworthy and that a criminal offence was probably committed when it was sold to you.

 

On the basis of what you have told us, the criminal offence was probably committed by National Car Credit. I don't know whether it is a strict liability offence – which means it didn't matter whether they knew about it or not – or whether it required their knowledge.

 

If it is a strict liability offence then they committed the offence. If the offence needs some level of knowledge by the perpetrator then it may be that they have a legitimate defence.

 

 

So far as I can see from the statute, the offence is one of strict liability because I don't see the words "… knowingly…" or "… without reasonable grounds for belief…" which would suggest that the perpetrator/seller would have a good defence if they could show that they did not know of the condition of the vehicle.

 

On this basis, you have a vehicle with a record of its MOT having expired in May 2017, sold to you in June 2017, and only a few days later failing its MOT. Furthermore, defects have been identified which include problems with the brakes which in themselves are sufficient to render the vehicle "unroadworthy" for the purpose of the statute - regardless of whether it passed or failed the MOT.

 

Of course you should have dealt with this promptly instead of being led around by the nose and shelling out money on something that should have been dealt with by the seller, but for your own reasons you decided to allow yourself to be manipulated and victimised. Maybe that's what happens to BMW drivers. I don't know.

 

What this all means is that you don't need to start arguing the toss with money barn or anybody else about when the defects occurred, why you put up with them for more than six months – blah blah blah.

 

I imagine that Moneybarn hhas got a very tight relationship with National Car Credit and I can imagine that there is some commission going to and fro as well.

 

I think you need to go back to zero and begin your claim/complaint from a completely different position which is that National Car Credit illegally sold you an unroadworthy vehicle and that this was financed by MoneyBarn. You want your money back – and you want it back quickly. It is up to MoneyBarn to refund you and then take the problem up with the dealer.

 

I think because of the criminal offence which has probably been committed here, you now have a lot of leverage if this is the way you want to go.

 

Of course the complication here is that rather than assert yourself from the beginning, a you have allowed yourself to get sucked in paying money after money to sort out a pretty expensive banger of a vehicle when it shouldn't of been sold to you in the first place and in any event someone else should have been covering the losses rather than yourself.

 

I don't know how many other of their customers this kind of thing has happened to, but certainly they have been eating you up for breakfast. It's now up to you to put a stop to it.

 

You now have to decide what outcome you want. Are you so in love with your BMW that you want to hang onto it and simply recover your losses? This might be reasonable because you might now have put it into a condition where you think that it is roadworthy, reliable and that it will stay that way for a long time. On the other hand, you may simply be sick of it and you'd rather get rid of it and recoup your losses.

 

You need to tell us which you want to do.

 

Whatever you do, I suggest that you go to Citizens Advice, tell them what has happened and make a complaint. Citizens Advice won't be able to do anything and the advice they give you will be pretty lame. However, you should ask them to enter the information on their national database and in turn this will be eventually communicated to Trading Standards. Make sure you name National car credit and also MoneyBarn. This is important because when you start contacting those two companies, you will tell them that a complaint has been made to Trading Standards. If possible, you can ask Citizens Advice for a reference number. You can include this in your communications to the two companies. It won't make a huge difference that it will start to get them to concentrate their minds.

 

As I say, the complicating factor is that in addition to the purchase price, you went ahead and started squandering money and trying to rescue a car in bad condition. Under the Consumer Credit Act I expect that MoneyBarn would only be responsible for refunding you the purchase price and any related interest/credit charges. Recovering the additional losses you have suffered would either not be possible or would be extremely difficult.

 

On the basis that you want to get rid of the car, then your additional losses would more easily be recovered from National Car Credit. It will be helpful if you can tell us that you in fact kept them informed of the faults that you have discovered and the expenses that you are going to. This would make it more difficult for them to distance themselves from these additional losses.

 

I think you need to let us know if you want to keep the car or you want to get rid of it.

 

If you want to get rid of the car then I would suggest attacking both MoneyBarn and National Car Credit and see which of them blinked first. I would also proceed separately against National Car Credit for the additional losses that you have suffered.

 

If you simply wanted to recover your losses but keep the car, then I think that your complaint is squarely against National Car Credit although I would make a complaint against MoneyBarn as well for the entire sum because this would put pressure on National Car Credit because this will put MoneyBarn into conflict with National Car Credit and you will find that this is very helpful to you because I'm sure that generally they have a very cosy relationship.

 

You have already told us that National Car Credit has stopped communicating with you and so I think that the only thing to do is to send them a letter of claim and then if they don't respond within 14 days, sue them in the County Court. Technically speaking your losses – including the cost of the vehicle will be more than £10,000. This will take you over the small claim limit. On the other hand, if you only sue them for your additional losses, then you will be well within the small claims limit.

 

I think you need to have a good think and tell us whether you want to keep car and also whether you are prepared to take a County Court action.

 

So far as the complaint against MoneyBarn goes, I would simply begin a formal complaint on the basis that a car has been sold to you unlawfully and that they are implicated in it if they deny you your rights under the Consumer Credit Act. I would tell them immediately that you will be taking this to the ombudsman if they won't refund your money and then take it up independently with the dealer.

 

 

 

Have a think about everything I've written here because I expect that I'm approaching it from a completely different angle and you will need to make sure that you understand what I'm saying. Please ask any questions

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Hi, thanks for all your help. I will have to speak to my wife first and then decide what we are going to do. I will get back to you tomorrow as I need some time to chew over this. Once again thanks for all your help.

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Yes, let us know and we will help you draft the appropriate letters.

 

On the basis that you want to get shot of the car, I suggest that you attack Moneybarn for the finance – and in fact you will probably have to do in order to get all your interest payments et cetera back more easily. Attack National Car Credit for the extra losses you have suffered.

 

This is a great tactic because it divides and pits them against each other and this will help you. It also means that the claim against National Car Credit is well within the small claim limit. I expect that there will be a flurry of conversations between them and you will get paid out without too much trouble – although you may need to issue the court papers. Assuming you win – highly likely – you will recover all your fees.

 

I don't really understand why anyone trusts anybody in the second-hand car industry. If you look at the reviews of National Car Credit, although there are some good ones, there are too many very bad ones for comfort. I certainly wouldn't put my money down until all the documentation was correct and up-to-date.

 

By the way, if you want to keep the car then I think I would also be negotiating a discount from National Car Credit to compensate you for the hassle you've been to. Your leverage there is that if you force them to take the car back then they will have a vehicle which has cost them a lot more and also has another owner on it and they will then have to get rid of it to someone else and hope to make a profit.

 

However, I would issue the letter of claim first so they understand that you mean business. I wouldn't start getting involved in any negotiations or any suggestions of any compromise without first having sent the letter of claim, with a solid deadline and no bluffing. This means that on the expiry of the deadline, you issue the papers. They may be reluctant to talk at first once they had the court papers and they realise that you will be explained to the judge that a criminal offence has been committed as well, they will soon come to the table and they will tend to do it on your terms as long as you are not too unreasonable.

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Hi - once again thanks for the great advice and explaining the procedures to me. My wife and I have decided that the car is not worth keeping and will pursue the option of a refund of our money. If you have a link to any templates for the letters, it would be much appreciated. I will start to draft letters and will post them here for your perusal. Thanks.

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Okay. I think you now need to tell us how far you are prepared to go with this.

 

As I have said, the safest way might be to claim the money from MoneyBarn under section 75 of the consumer credit act and to collect the rest of your losses from National Car Credit. I'm pretty certain that the claim from National car credit will take at least a threat of legal action and probably you will have to issue the papers and at least pay a hearing fee.

 

The claim against MoneyBarn will be a little complicated and you may need to begin a complaint to the Ombudsman. At this this is completely risk-free but it will take a long time.

 

Let us know broadly what you want to do and also please can you tell us the value of all the losses you have taken over and above the cost of the car.

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I am happy to continue with the action and will follow the actions detailed above. I have spent £780 thus far with a potential of at least another £400 as the MOT is due on the 20th of June and the DSC has packed up. It will definitely not pass the MOT without fixing the DSC. The dilemma I have is this - do I fix the DSC and add that to the costs or do I use public transport? Also, do I continue paying the monthly payments?

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I'm afraid I think that you should continue the monthly payments at the moment – even though you are entitled to stop (in my view) because if you take this unilateral action it will open up another load of complications because money barn will probably leap into offensive mode and start to smash your credit life up.

 

As you are rejecting the car, from this moment on you have a duty to mitigate your loss. I think this means that you must stop using it. If you had an accident or it was stolen or some other instant then this would hugely complicate matters and we really don't want to go there.

 

This means that you should no longer drive it and that you shouldn't spend any more money on it. Frankly I think that you should get it to the dealer and leave it there. How difficult would that be to do? They wouldn't be happy but you would have to get it there, photograph it, preferably take a witness who would simply remain silent but witness the condition of the car, and then leave the keys. It would have to be left on the forecourt not on the road. I would then go about the business of returning the documents to DVLA to deregister yourself or whatever it takes.

 

If you have your own forecourt space to keep it off the road then it it might be an easier and less conflictual alternative simply to stop using it and to store it yourself.

 

You say you have a dilemma – but I'm afraid I don't think you do. I think you have to stop using it.

 

I think you should write a letter to money barn immediately, refer to the finance that they provided for the purchase of the vehicle and that you have already informed them that unbeknown to you it was sold to you without an MOT and that within 10 days of having bought it it failed its MOT. Tell them that particularly as there were problems with the brakes, the car was not in roadworthy condition and therefore the dealers were committing an offence contrary to section 75 of the Highways Act 1988. Make sure they know of the deception

 

Tell MoneyBarn that on this basis it is clear that the contract is invalid and that you are invoking section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act and that you want a refund of your money.

 

You've already had some correspondence with money barn and it's clear that they like to drag their feet. Because of this I think you should take the initiative and I think that your letter to money barn should make it clear at the top that it is a formal complaint and you should then end up telling money barn if they don't refund your money then they should treat your letter as a formal complaint requiring a final response and you will immediately proceed To the Financial Ombudsman.

 

Tell them that you are maintaining the repayments at the moment but that you intend to cease them as soon as the matter has been referred to the ombudsman. I think under the FCA consumer credit rules, they are not entitled to cause you any difficulty if there is clearly a disputed matter in front of the ombudsman. Don't forget though that if for some reason rather decisions go against you, then you would find yourself in arrears. This means that even if you cease payments, you should save it up somewhere – just in case.

 

I think you need to be very assertive in your letter. I don't think you need to go on about all the other defects and when they happened and the fact that you put up with them for more than six months et cetera. It is clear that the contract is frustrated by virtue of a supervening illegality and it is therefore void from the start (ab initio).

 

I should copy the letter to the dealer.

 

I would send a separate letter to the dealer and tell them that you now realise that the vehicle which they deceived you into buying on the basis that it had an MOT when in fact no MOT was in force, was also unroadworthy because it failed on a number of issues including its brakes within 10 days of the purchase. Clearly in the car was unroadworthy and that by selling it to you they had committed an offence contrary to section 75 of the Highways Act 1988.

Because of the deception, the unroadworthy nurse of the vehicle and the fact that it was sold to you unlawfully you consider that the contract is void. You have already applied to money barn for a refund of all your money plus interest plus any associated losses and you are now turning to them, the dealer, to recover the other expenses and losses which you have reason incurred during the time you have had the vehicle in your possession.

 

Tell them that you have informed/will be informing Trading Standards about this breach of the Highways Act. Tell them that you have stopped driving the vehicle and you require them to collect it at their own expense by appointment and at the earliest opportunity. Tell them that if they will not reimburse you all of your expenses, a list of which is attached, then you will sue them after 14 days in the County Court to recover your money plus interest plus costs and without any further notice. Send a copy of this letter to money barn.

 

Go to Citizens Advice make the complaint I've already referred to in an earlier post and see if you can get a reference number. In any event write to citizens advice and inform them what has happened. Identify the trader. Identify money barn. Ask them to confirm that they are entering this incident into the Trading Standards database. Send a copy of this letter to the dealer and also to money barn.

 

Be sure that the action you are threatening is the action you are prepared to take. Don't bluff. On day 15 issue your claim. We will help you draft it. In the meantime, go to the MoneyClaim website, open a free account there and start preparing the claim. You can save as you go along. On the page which allows you to fill in your particulars of claim, you will see that there is a character limited section that there should also be a checkbox by which you can indicate that you will be sending fuller details under separate cover. I think you have to complete that within seven days of issuing the claim.

 

I think your chances of success are better than 85%/90%

 

Is there anything that I've missed out?

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Thanks for all the advice. It is all there and I will proceed as you have stated. I will park the car as stated with immediate effect and dispatch the letters in the next day or two. I will keep you updated and run the letters past you as I complete them. Thanks once again.

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