SIP Parking windscreen PCN - Tariff Street Manchester - Incorrect Reg Number

[Wardy82]

Hi All,

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated on how I appeal this parking Charge, I paid for the days parking via the PayByPhone app but selected my previous vehicle in error (same make and colour in list with similar number plate!).

 

As per the sticky post here are my answers to the questions;

 

1) Date of infringement: 17/05/18 13:24

 

2) Appeal lodged: No (I have however opened the web page to do so!)

I also have not received an NTK.

 

3) NTK Mention Schedule 4 PoFA: N/A NTK not received

 

4) Appeal after receiving NTK: N/A NTK Not received

 

5) Parking Company: SIP Parking Limited (SIPcarparks.com)

 

6) Car park: Tariff Street, Manchester. (Code 88841)

 

I was parked legally in a marked bay and paid for the parking upon arrival, unfortunately I used my previous vehicles registration number. I have a history of using the car park on a monthly basis with receipts / records of each parking transaction and Reg number they are against.

 

If paid within 24 hours: £35

7 days: £50

14 days: £60

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

[ericsbrother]

so how do you know they have issued a parking charge if you havent received a niotice? Are you guessing that you will?

 

What have you got in the way of a demand

 

. If it is a letter then that is a Notice to Keeper.

If it was a ticket slapped on the car then that is a Notice to driver.

 

you paid the prescribed fee so that is good enough for the law to be on your side.

 

You need to read about incorrect number input on the Parking prankster's blogspot and you will be reassured of that

Edited June 26, 2018 by dx100uk
Spacing

[Wardy82]

Apologies, it was a notice to driver.

A yellow ticket on the windscreen.

 

I intend to appeal,

I was just trying to find any relevant templates or relevant cases / courses of action etc.

 

I took several photos of the car park / car / signage etc

. just in case I need it (i am not local to the area of the car park)

 

. Its my first parking charge in 20 years of driving and it was due to an honest mistake which makes it all the more annoying.

[Wardy82]

To clarify;

 

NTK not received.

 

I have however received a Notice to Driver in the way of the yellow ticket on the windscreen.

[DragonFly1967]

Sit on your hands and do absolutely nothing by way of an appeal unless and until you receive a notice to keeper. It is important that you do not identify yourself (or anyone else) as the driver!

 

A NtK must land on your doormat not before the 29th day, and not after the 56th day. If it lands outside of those days, they've already fallen at the first hurdle

[dx100uk]

Title updated

[Wardy82]

Thanks, I tried to comply with the Stickies, apologies on the incorrect title.

[Wardy82]

Not going to lie, I don't know if I have it in me to wait it out, I'm on the verge of crumbling and submitting an appeal

 

I have a redundancy situation at work, some ill health of a family member at home, and the prospect of having to move house. As small as this may seem to everybody else it just feels like a another weight hanging over my head at a somewhat difficult time.

 

If I submit an appeal, illustrating my payment and error etc does this crush any chance of further challenges?

[dx100uk]

No you cant do anything till the ntk arrives

Remember this is NOT A FINE

Its simply a speculative invoice

[Wardy82]

Ok thanks DX and Dragonfly,

ordinarily I would be full of fight and stand my ground,

I guess with redundancy hanging over me the thought of the £35 turning into £50 then £100 or more is magnifying the pressure.

 

I will stand my ground as advised and do nothing.

 

It may be nothing to you guys but your advice and support is hugely appreciated.

[DragonFly1967]

It's not "nothing" to us. We completely understand, it's not our money.

 

But the advice you'll get here is based (between us all) on years of experience in dealing with most, if not all, of these parasites.

 

We'll always try to give people the best advice for their specific case. Whether or not people follow it is entirely up to them.

 

As I said, it's easy for us, it's not our money.

But based on our experience, following our advice properly will usually see these people defeated.

There are always exceptions of course, but they're quite rare.

 

And where you've simply input the wrong registration, it's covered by a legal term of "de minimis non curat lex" or just "de minimis" which translates from Latin as "The law cares not for small things", so ultimately, these clowns have got no chance of winning any court case they threaten you with.

[dx100uk]

FWIW We've never lost a mistyped reg one yet!!

loads here already

[ericsbrother]

If you appeal you will lose the appeal and identify yourself as the driver and then you will be chased all the way to hell. SIP dont have any record of accepted appeals.

 

WAIT and make them obey the law and then when they get it wrong you can bite their bum over this if you so desire.

 

Nothing else is going to happen in the meanwhile and a dud invoice will still be a dud invoice regardless of the amount or date.

 

The law is on your side so stop worrying about it, you can fire off a letter to them once they have screwed up their NTK content but certainly never appeal until then.

we will help you once the NTK arrives and we have read it.

Your situation is appreciated.

 

 

Not going to lie, I don't know if I have it in me to wait it out, I'm on the verge of crumbling and submitting an appeal

 

I have a redundancy situation at work, some ill health of a family member at home, and the prospect of having to move house. As small as this may seem to everybody else it just feels like a another weight hanging over my head at a somewhat difficult time.

 

If I submit an appeal, illustrating my payment and error etc does this crush any chance of further challenges?

[Wardy82]

Good evening all, I have an update!

I have now received the NTK.

 

I was away at a wedding from Thursday 21st to Saturday 23rd June last week,

I returned to find the NTK on my doormat.

 

I can only assume I received this either Friday or Saturday.

By my calculations this lands between the 29th and 56th day.

 

I have scanned the NTK and blanked any personal details

 

, any advice on the next move would be great.

 

Thanks in advance

2018-06-22_NTK_Redacted_V2.pdf

[dx100uk]

Thread and uploads tidied

[Wardy82]

Many thanks DX100uk

[lookinforinfo]

They are saying you didn't have a ticket which you wouldn't have had even using the correct registration as it was paid by phone.

What did the NTD say please?

 

You have to remember that the major parking companies are crooks so it is no use expecting them to act in an honest way.

They exist to rip off every motorist for as much as they can and SIP is no exception.

As others have said here you have paid for your parking so they have no reason to pursue you and definitely no reason to pay twice.

 

Just get on with your life and ignore their stupid letters.

You will also get unregulated debt collectors writing to you who are a total joke who disregard all the laws on debt collecting and try to frighten you by demanding ever increasing amounts, Once they realise that you are not going to pay they then reverse their procedures and ask for less money because they are nice and kind.

Edited June 27, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[ericsbrother]

well, their NTK manages to scramble the law by saying they are going to add an unlawful charge to their contractual/breach of contract charge.

 

As the POFA makes it clear that the only amount the keeper is liable for is the amount indicated in the NTK

adding this threatening bit may make the whole bill void as it could be read as as being an unlawful penalty!

 

However, I would think that they would apologise to a court if they were caught out and still carry on as that judge wont get to read the thousands of similar letters they post out.

 

As for not displaying a ticket, having a pay by phone method negates that as a contractual condition.

What they should say is not displaying the purchased ticket (if applicable) or not paying the prescriibed fee (but that makes the ticket redundant).

In essence they are doing things on the cheap and then try and wheedle money out of the punter when their systems go wrong

Edited June 28, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[silverfox1961]

Hi

I hope this link works

 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.481843,-2.2302439,3a,15.1y,338.14h,83.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfuvOV9roTAK0hdDFITal-g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

 

Are the signs still the same as this image was from 2017

[Wardy82]

Hi, I took some photos whilst on site, just had a quick look on my phone and those signs appear to still be there.

 

However, there are some additional signs that relate to electronic ticket parking.

 

I can post these up once I am home from work if this helps?

 

Thanks to everyone for your responses and guidance.

Edited June 28, 2018 by dx100uk
quote spacing

[Wardy82]

They are saying you didn't have a ticket which you wouldn't have had even using the correct registration as it was paid by phone.

What did the NTD say please?

 

You have to remember that the major parking companies are crooks so it is no use expecting them to act in an honest way.

They exist to rip off every motorist for as much as they can and SIP is no exception.

As others have said here you have paid for your parking so they have no reason to pursue you and definitely no reason to pay twice.

 

Just get on with your life and ignore their stupid letters.

You will also get unregulated debt collectors writing to you who are a total joke who disregard all the laws on debt collecting and try to frighten you by demanding ever increasing amounts, Once they realise that you are not going to pay they then reverse their procedures and ask for less money because they are nice and kind.

 

Hi, thanks for your response,

 

I can post a scan of the NTD when i get home from work if this helps? The box titled Reason states: "No Ticket Displayed"

[silverfox1961]

Please do upload anything that helps. As it stands, if they are the ONLY signs on entry to the car park then there is no advisory of terms and conditions but we'll wait and see what you have first.

[Wardy82]

I will upload the NTD and any photos that I took on the day as soon as I get home from work (will just need to edit and remove any personal details first)

[ericsbrother]

the demand must match a breach of one of the advertised conditions and those conditions have to be clear and unambiguous.

 

A no ticket displayed where a phone app is used to pay fails on that point so the no ticket cannot be a breach of condition as you would never have one.

 

that is not ambiguity, it is a condition that cannot be fulfilled so an unfair contract and thus void.

 

It is like having a sign saying do not read this notice or pay us £100 if you do

Edited June 28, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[dx100uk]

Please put all those and others in ONE multipage pdf!!

Else we'll be here all day downloading single images