UKCPM/gladstones Windscreen PCN Claimform - Vista Centre, Salisbury Rd, Hounslow TW4 6JQ ** Claim Dismissed**

[maclarke]

hello all,

 

In light of the current pandemic event, and having some free time i have:

1. reviewed other witness statements
2. Prepared my own witness statement

I suppose my court date in May 2020 will be postponed.

I have not received UKCPM/Gladstones' WS and I imagined that the court will extend the required submittal time.

 

What do you think?

Should I upload my WS for your review?

[FTMDave]

Yes, there's no harm in posting a draft up.

 

Obviously be prepared to change it in order to demolish the load of rubbish that UKCPM/Gladdys will send.

 

Have you informed the fleecers that you've moved?

[ericsbrother]

dont assume the court date has been abandoned and the protagonists still have to do their paperwork in time. If they dont you should be onto that and ask the court to dismiss the claim.

Most cases are being dealt with remotely so conference calls etc and that makes the need for good paperwork essential

[maclarke]

Noted! 

I'll contact the courts tomorrow (Tuesday 14th Aprill 2020) following with the bank holiday.

 

Please find attached my Draft Witness Statement.

 

Witness Statement points/queries:

1. Items in Red and yellow are  points for me to review when I receive UKCPM's statement and/or amend the appendix reference.
2. In point 34, i'm referencing this so called £19 ph for LiP (litigation in Person), where is this amount stated? Can I get more for taking time off work? My hourly rate is higher than this.
3. Regarding point 24, there seems to be two CPR 1998 - why is this? I have seen references to 44.3 (2), mentioning disproportionate costs, which has been mentioned in all WS that i've seen. I would like to ensure I attach/reference the correct version.

• CPR - Rules and Directions (this contains the correct reference to 44.3 (2))

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part-44-general-rules-about-costs#rule44.3

 

• CPR - Rules and Directions 1998 (this contains a slightly different reference to 44.4 (2))

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/3132/article/44.4/made

 

Breakdown of UKCPM's claim

From the court claim form UKCPM are claiming the following:

• Amount claimed: £180.18 [£100 for PCN, £60 Contractual costs, £20.18 as per County courts act 1984]
• Court fee: £25
• Legal representative costs: £50

Witness Statement - Draft.pdf

[dx100uk]

your defence:

........................

 

1.    A parking ticket was purchased. The alleged "breach" must have taken place just as the defendant was returning to the vehicle. Following the BPA Code of Practice, a MINIMUM grace period of 10 minutes is permitted. The defendant did not exceed this grace period.

 

2.    The defendant does not believe that the claimant has locus standi in this matter as they have failed to produce a contract between themselves and the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public and to make civil claims in their own name.

 

3.    In any case no contract exists between the claimant and the defendant due to the paucity of the signage at the site that offers the supposed contract.

 

 

in your ws you have missed...

 

I an the registered keeper of vehicle reg no. etc.

 

and about the grace period.

 

you have an awful lot of unnecessary waffle in it too.

 

I would focus on the above and the contract..

 

[maclarke]

Hi @dx100uk - i'll review your comments this weekend.

 

Also, i've just received UKCPM's Witness Statement. Please see attached.

I'll prepare mine and share with you on Saturday/Sunday.

UKCPM_-_WS_(edited).pdf

[brassnecked]

Think they are twisting beavis beyond its limits in Point 6

[lookinforinfo]

Below is the IPC Code of Conduct regarding Grace Periods which is at odds with Gladstones letter to you on post 38-

file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Gladstone 05-August (1).pdf

 

15. Grace Periods

15.1 Drivers should be allowed a sufficient amount of time to park and read any signs so they may make an informed decision as to whether or not to remain on the site.

15.2 Drivers should be allowed a sufficient amount of time to leave a site after a pre-paid or permitted period of parking has expired.

The reason that Gladstones did not understand why you quoted the grace period to them is that you hoped that despite the fact that they are p**s poor solicitors they could at least read and understand the contents of 15.2 of the IPD Code of Conduct. Sadly not. On the upside is their stupidity in continuing this charade means you could be in line for a few hundred pounds for a breach of your GDPR.

[lookinforinfo]

It is not too difficult to have a go at their WS.

On number 3 of their WS they state you are liable to pay  when they do not have planning permission from the Council under Town and Country [Advertisements] regulations 2007. This is illegal and as such their signs should not be there and so no contract can be formed. It is also a breach of the IPC Code of Conduct and should mean that they should not be granted access to DVLA data.

number 4 is misdirecting the Court since the second part of their grace periods says-Drivers should be allowed a sufficient amount of time to leave a site after a pre-paid or permitted period of parking has expired.

 5 is totally out of order. The only way that they could ascertain that motorists are reading the signs would be if they had a camera recording  each and every sign  24 hours a day and even then they would be unable to identify any driver unless they tracked all of them from every car.  They also have no idea how close you were to arriving back at your car as they don't know which direction you would be coming from nor what you looked like. In addition, you could have been in the photo and they have photoshopped it.

6  despite stating in their CPR  that they would not mention their contract with the land owner so they would not need to provide you with the contract, they did aver that they did have a contract but have not produced it. So as they cannot now produce the contract in Court  that may well indicate there is a problem with it or it has lapsed.

9 they say they were offered the use of the land but the terms and conditions have not been shown so cannot now be produced. The last sentence is gobbledegook.

11 This flies in the face of the IPC CoP

"   1. Establishing Yourself as the ‘Creditor’.

1.1 If you operate parking management activities on land which is not owned by you, you must supply us with written authority from the land owner sufficient to establish you as the ‘Creditor’ within the meaning of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (where applicable) and in any event to establish you as a person who is able to recover parking charges."                         By not producing  the contract they are calling in to doubt their adherence to the CoP yet again.

13 The Court should conclude that not supplying the contract under CPR the case should be dismissed.

 

Also make sure that the plan of where they say the signs and cameras are placed matches where you saw them. You want the Judge to doubt the accuracy of their WS. Ideally you want ukpcm too realise that they do not want to appear in Court with you as they will lose. 

That saves you going to Court but still get a result.

 

[maclarke]

Hello all,

 

thank you for your comments/input.

I have amended my witness statement for your review. Please see attached

 

I have remove a lot of text. I have also added new items coloured in red. This might be waffle or new legal references - i hope you might think it's relevant.

Thank you in advance.

Witness Statement - Draft - Rev01.pdf

[FTMDave]

Looks damn good to me.

 

In 17 add that not obtaining planning permission is a criminal offence and therefore no contract could be formed.

 

I would slightly beef up point 30 and/or 31 as you're going for full costs, and quickly summarise again all their unreasonable behaviour: issuing a ticket when you were within the grace period; adding fictitious sums to get round the small claims court costs limit; generally abusing the court procedure to bully you into paying rather than using the procedure to recover a genuine debt; etc. 

 

As you still have a couple of days to send it in, hang fire till Ericsbrother comes on, he has vast experience with these issues.

[maclarke]

Thank you @FTMDave,

 

Do you have the reference of legal defence that I can use to claim lack of planning permission is a criminal offense?

From what I understand it's to do with the advertising/ placement of signage.

[FTMDave]

The general legal principle is that you can't enforce an illegal contract.  So if I promise to pay you money to murder someone for me, and after the killing I don't give you the cash, you can't sue me because the original contract between us was illegal.

 

I've done some digging now and found  http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/783/schedule/3/made  but I'm not 100% sure it's the right legislation.                                   

 

 

[ericsbrother]

A funny thing about planning law is that it is statute law but there are no real penalties for breaking them. If you spit on the pavement then you get fined a sum that is set in a list of fines that is updated regularly but with this it is for the council to enforce and often they dont. That doesnt change the law or make it unenforceable becasue the council can make all commercial activity on the site cease for breach of siad planning and that will severly hurt the parking cowboys employers.

I have used this to get Sainsburys to change their minds on several occasions as having a supermarket shut down because they cant be bothered to ensure that their servants play nicely isnt somehting they want to risk despite their earler trotting out of the usual " you have to take it up with the parking co" rubbish.

Nottingham Council did start to enforce on a retail park when PE said they werent going to behave and they soon got a kicking from the landlord.

It is all down to the determination of someone  at the council but the law is there all the same.

the correct term is "criminal compact" so look it up and you will see that it is all down to the ability to create a contract (or not) in the first place.

 

 

 

[maclarke]

Great, thanks @ericsbrother.

 

Other than that....do you think my WS is in a good state to send to the court?

 

It's due on Wednesday 22nd April

[maclarke]

On 12/04/2020 at 12:07, FTMDave said:

Have you informed the fleecers that you've moved?

 

hI @FTMDave - no I haven't informed UKCPM that i've moved (sorry I overlooked that question).

[honeybee13]

You should let them know so they can't do something sneaky behind your back.

 

HB

[maclarke]

Thanks @honeybee13, i'll do that. 

 

I've got mail forwarding and I know the new owners of my property. 

 

But i'll listen to your advice.

[FTMDave]

Yes, just send them a two-line letter with their reference and informing them of your new address.

 

You should do this with anyone you could be in dispute with.  If you look for "Backdoor CCJ" in thread titles you'll see how many times people get caught out when moving. 

[brassnecked]

Court papers are usually NOT forwarded, they get sent back, then the fleecers get an undefended Default CCJ.

[dx100uk]

anyone on your credit file that shows a debt or any debt you've left within say 7yrs

also dvla re driving licence and V5C

 

make sure the court is aware too.

update address on mcol

[maclarke]

ok all - 

 

I've completed my final WS (witness statement) - Please see attached.

 

It's due at the court tomorrow (wed 22nd April), but I will post in the morning.

In another discussion, I understand that should be ok.

 

Please note:

I did not add the reference for the illegal contract being a criminal offence, as I could not find the correct reference.

I'm quite happy with the the document as it stands.

Witness Statement - Draft - Rev02.pdf

[brassnecked]

Looks OK , just let the others have a look.

[maclarke]

ok @brassnecked.

 

The WS is due today.

 

I've prepared 3 copies for the

• Court,
• Gladstones
• and myself.

 

However, the court is suspended for staff and the public (obviously due to COVID-19) - I was planning on leaving it at the court, but that's not possible.

 

I suppose I should just carry on as usual. I'll have to post them at lunch as i'm working from home and it's the only chance i'll get.

[ericsbrother]

post and email a copy  as well. the court email address will be searchable if they havent given you it in their correspondence