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feelingfine

back again after 12 years an update MMS ltd

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Its a long first post, but please bear with me...desperate?

 

In 2001 i had a major epileptic seizure while at work, i have never had a seizure before and was taken to hospital.(where i spent the next 4 days)

 

Over the next 6/12 months i was having quite a lot of tests done to see what brought on this seizure.

 

In 2002 my wife and i bought our ex-council property,when we took out this mortgage we took out PPI i disclosed my illness which hadnt stopped me from working, and the seizures were now only partial and unfrequent there was no pattern to them at all.

I was perhaps having maybe 1 or 2 every 3/4 months.

 

When the PPI was taken out as i said i disclosed the illness, it was a fixed term of 3 yrs and they contacted the hospital and my GP for eveidence.

 

However in late 2002 i was eventually diagnosed with a ''cerebral brain tumour of the right temperal lobe which was causing the seizures''

 

The insurers were made aware of this i think at the time i was paying around £62 per month PPI.

 

In June 05 i had a call from my insurers they said my fixed term was now ending and did i want to contuine it, also had my condition chnaged at all.

 

I said yes i did want to contuine it, and yes my condition had got worse.

 

The reply was ..well as you havent claimed against this policy before there is no need for any further medical eveidence.

 

But my premium was now going to be £65 per month, thats ok i said.

 

My seizures were now getting very frequent and i was having 2/3 per week i was taken back into hospital for tests.

 

Where lucky enough they caught this one on VT test and it showed that i was blacking out but having only partial complex seizures (not full ones).

 

I was advised by the hospital to stop working and they would go for removal of the tumour (i was having regular MRI scans that showed the tumor was not growing , not cancerous, but was sitting on a part of the brain that was giving me seizures) and the removal of it was the best option, it was in a good position to be removed.

 

Because my mortgage was taken out after 1995 i would have to wait 28 weeks before i got any help from the DSS.

 

I wasnt unduly worried as i had the PPI...But they neglected to pay out!!!

Their get-out-clause was

A) It was a pre existing medical condition.

B) it was a new policy?

 

It wasnt a new policy i had just carried on the old one, and they knew of my medical history ...so what were they covering me for and why was it a higher premium?

 

I went thru the Financial Ombdsmen/LLoyds back and fourth went the letters and then they changed the reason they were not paying out to:

 

''they didnt ask me to go for a medical i wasnt covered for the only thing that was wrong with me''??

 

Where can i go from here as to trying to get redress from either the insurers or brokers (was the policy mis-sold)?

 

Anyway late 05 the mortgage company try to reposess and take us to court, the judge awards them 28 days?

 

I borrow some money and employ a barrister who takes it back to court and this time we get a good judge who sees we have done all we can to resolve things and allows 3 months to sell the property, which we do in a week and are now in rented accomodation.

We have a 17 old at college and a 13 yr old at school.

 

When we were in court on the second time the mortgage company sought reposseion or £146k settlement.

That was the figure they asked for.

 

When we get the last statement after the sale we see they mortgage company have taken £156k,

They say £8k on early settlement figure £2k on fee's.

 

IMO an early settlement is the same as penalt clause in this situation (ie we were forced to sell) and therfore a penalty clause is NOT ENFORCEABLE in a court of law.

 

I have now asked the barrister to look into this, he said the Penalty clause is

NOT ENFORCEABLE IN A COURT OF LAW, but they are trying to get round it by saying it was an Early settlement figure, which they would be intitled to ''if i moved mortgage companys to find a better rate'' for example.

 

Does anyone know of a case like this?

What was the outcome?

 

ANY help would really be appreciated, although we could really do with the money i would rather the barrister had in fees, than let the mortgage company have it!!!

 

Thanks for taken the time to read this long post...appreciate it!

 

well second like an idiot i posted in the wrong forum i posted under ''general consumer issues'' insted of looking at the site properly, so appologies to the MODS and other users of this board.

 

please have a look in the general forum under ''repsosesion/PPI/early settlement''

 

I would really appreciate it if someone could take a look at for me or if the MODS could possibly move it to this forum.

 

I never knew so many people had probs with gmac/eversheds llp (solictors)

 

Thanks again all

and i will update if i get some news from the barrister

 

Three threads merged

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Guest Jonnno

This is a tricky one so my answer will be breif...follow the advice of your solicitor & barrister...it's what you are paying them for.

 

You don't mention whether or not the mort co ever got a possession order or not. If they did then the FSA (ombudsman) could be reluctant to investigate for you. They will likely say that they have no juristiction on matters where a judge has already ruled on a matter and made an order.

 

You could well argue that you were forced to redeem early by the actions of the mort co, but they could counter that they had to take the action they did to protect their security.

 

I don't think you can make a small claims court claim due to the amount of the early repayment fee (too high). The FSA may take up your point about the ERC but the lender will probably want to combine it with the possession action and ask the ombudsman to accept that it is outside their juristiction if a possession order was made.

 

So back to my original advice...this is very complicated, not nearly as straight forward as claiming back late payment/DD/SO fees...follow the advice of your solicitor.

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Sorry 'feelinfine'. I don't have anything other to add than what Jonno has recommended. I just wanted to say how sorry I am for your situation, and how I really hope your health (both physical and financial) improves very soon.

 

good luck


Abbey - 547.00 settled in full.

Second claim: £204 WON.

Barclaycard - 142.88 incl interest due WON BY DEFAULT as they didn't even bother entering a defence. Barclaycard paid up £184.88.

 

MBNA - Concluded £634.31

Capital One Concluded £148

Kinda disappointed I've no more banks to go after now...

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Can someone point me in the right direction please! I want to request my records from GMAC to get my early redemption fee back. I believe its under ther Data Protection Act and wondered if anyone had a copy of the letter they'd sent as I have no idea how to word it.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

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First: thanks to those who have replied!

Second: to the MODS ..what an excellent board you have here!

 

Re Jonno: when the first case went to court the judge gave a 28 day order on the property, saying that he could see no other option than to do this as we had shown no intention to sell the property, or pay any arrears.

However this was untrue, had he looked at the evidence (which i may had , he did not have in front of him) he would have seen:

A) we had paid £2000 the week before using a debit card.

B) a request to Gmac asking if we could go on reduced payments until the property was sold, and if we were allowed to sell the property?

 

The second time we went to court around 31 days later the property had been sold for the asking price (it was slightly under-valued) due to circumstances.

Yet gmac still wanted possesion the judge this time was a different one and was very grounded.

He knew that we had done EVERYTHING we could .

He had the same amount of evidence but this time actually had it with him?

Plus he had the forsight that a sale was going to complete in around 2/3 months and quiet blatanly put it to gmac that we were in a better position to sell then they were....HE WAS A PEOPLES JUDGE...NEED MORE LIKE HIM!!!

 

Re: the ombudsmen

I havent as yet got them involved in this yet, they were involved with the insurence compnay on the PPI?

 

Re: Give-it-me -back

thankyou very much !

lets hope we can ALL get some where

 

I will keep the board updated whichever it way it turns out as im sure it will be a help to ''someone'' at some time

all the best

Thanks

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Hi Feelingfine,

 

Im sorry to hear of all the problems you have had and i really hope your health improves. Im sure the stress of all of this cant be helping.

 

5 years ago i had my house repossessed. I split with my ex, who then moved back to his parents and took everything we had bought jointly and left me with all the debts and a mortgage! Inevitably things got too much for me as i had been made redundant, although i was getting by working night shifts in a warehouse for a temp agency and also i had started my own secretarial business which meant i was working from home during the day. I knew i couldnt manage on my own so i put the house up for sale and started looking for a flat to rent. I had real problems with this as the house was in disrepair and i couldnt afford to repair it and my credit was so bad by this time that no-one would let me rent a flat. Despite my efforts i could not keep all our joint debts up to date on my income so the mortgage company took me to court.

(I was 21 at the time and petrified of going to that court) my ex didnt turn up of course so i had to sit there and tell my side of the story to an unsympathetic judge who the told me i had 28 days to move out! I explained how i had already been trying but failed so did not think i would be able to find somewhere in 28 days.

But that went in one ear and out the other.

28 days came and went and luckily, (someone thought theyd give me a break) i moved out 2 days before the deadline. i didnt want to give them the satisfaction of taking the keys off me so i posted them back early.

 

At the time i expected a small return after the house had been sold because they sold it for more than i had it up for and i knew how much they wanted back, the difference was in the redemption fee and admin charges which funnily enough took any excess money and a little bit more!!

 

I didnt think much about it at the time, just that their 'fees' seemed a bit high.

But now i know different and feel i have been ripped off.

 

I have a thread under 'Abbey reclaiming mortgage fees'. I sent them letters which were all ignored so started a claim. They filed a defence which is the usual nonsense and now i am completing the allocation questionnaire so should have a court date soon. (Im anxious about going in a court again after my last experience).

 

I think we have an interesting issue here as i havent seen many threads from people who have had repossessions and im not sure how it will end but im in it for the long haul as they say.

 

Good luck feelingfine!

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Hi, feelingfine.

 

Having just answered on your HFC thread, I thought I would have a quick look on this one, which is a good deal more complicated. Ouch.

 

It must be devastating to not only have to live with such a scary condition, and I can only too easily imagine the "what if" dark thoughts to go with it... Losing your home on top of that, through no fault of your own...

 

Let's see. Your barrister seems to be clued up, and you might as well make him earn his money. I personally can not see how they can charge YOU the early settlement figure when THEY forced you to sell. Talk of adding insult to injury! But I don't know enough about that to say one way or another on that one. I would however think that if your barrister says it's a penalty, go with him on that one.

 

The PPI, now that's another story...

 

Sorry to ask such an obvious question, but what documents do you have?

 

However in late 2002 i was eventually diagnosed with a ''cerebral brain tumour of the right temperal lobe which was causing the seizures''

The insurers were made aware of this i think at the time i was paying around £62 per month PPI.

 

How were they made aware of it? Do you have a letter confirming this? Or a response from the insurers?

 

In June 05 i had a call from my insurers they said my fixed term was now ending and did i want to contuine it, also had my condition chnaged at all.

I said yes i did want to contuine it, and yes my condition had got worse.

The reply was ..well as you havent claimed against this policy before there is no need for any further medical eveidence.

But my premium was now going to be £65 per month, thats ok i said.

  1. Was this confirmed in writing, either by you or them?
  2. Did they in fact continue to collect premiums, either at £62 or at the increased rate of £65?
  3. Did your insurance reference number change at all?
  4. Did they send a new policy leaflet at all? A new certificate specifying exclusions? ANYTHING?

Their get-out-clause was A) It was a pre existing medical condition.

B) it was a new policy?

It wasnt a new policy i had just carried on the old one, and they knew of my medical history ...so what were they covering me for and why was it a higher premium?

 

Playing devil's advocate here for one second: They could have kept on insuring you for other things, (say if you dropped of a heart attack), but specifically excluded the pre-existing condition. A lot of inscos do that.

 

I went thru the Financial Ombdsmen/LLoyds back and fourth went the letters and then they changed the reason they were not paying out to:

''they didnt ask me to go for a medical i wasnt covered for the only thing that was wrong with me''??

 

How did the FO decide? Can you post it here?

 

Can you please answer those questions, and we'll take it from there. Thanks.

 

PS: At some point, I may well ask you to let me have a read at the actual policy wording, so you'd better look for that as well. :-)

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Hello Bookworm,

Thankyou for your reply, i will have to answere the Questions you raised like this as i still havent worked out how to use multiple quotes..Der!

 

1)The barrister:

Well due to the amount they charge (no disrespect to them) we have had to let him go, he was worth the money on our day in court, and probably without him we would have been made homeless there and then, but we couldnt carry on financially.

 

2) The PPI, now that's another story...

 

Sorry to ask such an obvious question, but what documents do you have?

I have all the documents relating to this from the original one sold by the broker and to the new-renewal one.

 

3)How were they made aware of it? Do you have a letter confirming this? Or a response from the insurers?

I wrote them a letter enclosing the original letter from the hospital, but never recieved a reply?

 

4) Was this confirmed in writing, either by you or them?

they only confirmed that the insurence was to "carry-on"

Did they in fact continue to collect premiums, either at £62 or at the increased rate of £65?

They started to collect £65.33

Did your insurance reference number change at all?

Well yes and no? strange, i know but the reference number when i have dealt with them didnt change but the policy number did?

Did they send a new policy leaflet at all? A new certificate specifying exclusions? ANYTHING?

I received another policy leaflet, but everything in it was exactly the same, ie it didnt say in the exclusions regarding that they would cover me for everything else other than a brain tumor?

 

5) Playing devil's advocate here for one second: They could have kept on insuring you for other things, (say if you dropped of a heart attack), but specifically excluded the pre-existing condition. A lot of inscos do that.

Yes i understand that, but they never exluded me for the "brain tumor" and stating this, it was the general pack they send through.

 

6) How did the FO decide? Can you post it here?

The F.O.S. were my intitail complaint, they handed the case over to lloyds, and they felt that, the insurence company had acted correctly?

My arguement all along has been this?

a) they or someone underwrote that policy knowing that there was an illness.

£60 plus pm on a 140k mortgage for single person cover only.

b) why have they changed their reasons for not paying out on 3 occassions.

1) you have consulted a Dr within 12 mnths prior to the inception date of the policy (this was their fisrt reply)

2) It was a pre-existing medical condition.

3) When lloyds got involved, baiscally the answere given to why they were not paying was a mixture of No: 2 and the fact that they had not asked me to see one of their Dr's?

PS: At some point, I may well ask you to let me have a read at the actual policy wording, so you'd better look for that as well

I am willing to email/post any docs required, to stop this blatant organised and legalised robbery, for myself and others who are /may be in the similar position.

 

Thanks again for the reply...i really appreciate it

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Right. Karnevil actually sent me part of the correspondence, but it's not enough.

 

How big a file are we talking about? I'd really want to see EVERYTHING you have, including copies of your own letters.

 

My problem here is this: If it is the same insurance insuring you without a break for the same product, how can it be a different policy? I feel that Lloyds got possibly misled or confused there, and this, to me, is the pivotal point. And this is what I want to concentrate on.

 

At this point, forget any conversation you may/may not have. I want to know what you have in writing. Think of it as a jigsaw puzzle, it has to be broken down logically, each step leading to the next.

 

The more I think of it, the more I think you need to do a SAR. It will show a lot, including, possibly, if we're lucky, some notes on telephone conversations. It may help clear some of the "we said, they said" that has been going on.

So can you get that rolling, please? It will cost £10, but may be a very good investment, lol.

 

If you need to talk privately, you can pm me, or e-mail me:

 

research@bankactiongroup.co.uk.

 

The SAR will take up to 40 days for them to comply, so don't worry too much. Template's in the Library, adapt for your needs.

 

Keep us posted.

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cheers Bookworm

have sent you an email let me know what you think

cheers mate

be lucky

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Hello All

Just a quick update on the things that are ongoing at the moment

with the help of this board and a couple of members from this site (they know who they are)

 

First i would like to thank everyone who has helped (however small) with input and advice on my situation..thank you all.

 

It looks like it will go all the way with GMAC, they seem to be digging their heels in on this (perhaps thats what they always do) in my challenge to get my ERC back.

 

MMs Ltd:

This was the company who when i went to claim on PPI for my mortgage they totaly went on the defensive.

They were sending two letters out each time they had any corresepondence to send me.

Letter 1 ) was denying that i had an account with them at all.

Letter 2 ) was stating they were looking into the case?

and they were signed by the same person?

 

Anyway to cut a long story short, i was advised by a member of this forum to get the MP involved, which i did, and soon enough MMS decided i did have an account with them, but were only willing to refund the premiums on the "new policy" which this was not it was an ongoing policy that had been renwed (if that makes sense).

They felt that the blame should lay at the door of the company who originally sold me the policy, on their behalf..ie Regency Mortgages.

 

So i have approached Regency and they are again digging their heels in also, but they have not been told by me that MMS have agreed to refund the premuims on the renewal of the said PPI policy, so does that mean that they (MMS) may have "left the door open " for me with Regency?

 

I am waiting for a document from either DWP or Income Support to state that i am claiming benfits so that i can get the court fees waivered and then i will be chasing GMAC and Regency.

 

Back to today , i get a letter from MMS asking me to sign this and return it to them and they will process the cheque for the amount of £195.99 In respect of the 3 months premiums that was renewed.

 

On this letter , where i have to sign it says the following:

i hereby agree and accpet a refund of the premiums i have paid under cert No:XXXXXx, in respect of a policy which incepted on 7-7-05 effectivly cancelling my cover "ab initio".

A) what does ab initio mean?

B) am i going to lose any grounds in my claim against Regecny if i were to sign this?

 

Many thanks in advance

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:shock:

 

Ab initio: Literally "from the beginning." When an agreement is for legal reasons void ab initio, it is void for all purposes throughout the period of its purported existence, and not merely from the moment that it is declared to have been void by the Court.

 

I would NOT accept this! Why are they so keen to get you to sign something like this, one can not help wondering???? :mad:

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By asking you to agree that the policy is canceled ab initio to agree that effectively the policy never existed and that you are absolving them from all liability.

 

I haven't read this thread completely - I find it rather confusing and it needs to be cleaned up.

 

However, I do gather that the insurers are denying liability for a claim on the basis of a pre-existing condition which you claim you have evidence to show that they were fully appraised.

 

If this is the case then do not sign this acceptance.

 

You should not sign anything with this kind of company unless you are fully confident that you have the knowledge and experience to match theirs.

 

Would you like to try posting a brief and succinct post which tells us the whole story in a more methodical way.

 

PM me with a link when you have done this


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As requested:

a mortgage was taken out on a right to buy scheme (ex council) with the company Regency on the same night through the same company a PPI on this mortage was arranged.

 

The PPI was to cover myself only and not my wife, the reason this was done was i had recently found out that i had epilepsy, but at the time the Doctors could not tell why at my age this had suddenly come on, so i was still haveing tests done.The epilepsy was NOT effecting my life , iw as still able to work, and the frequency of the seizures was no more than one or two every couple of months.

 

The rep from Regency took notes relating to this illness, asked a lot of questions etc.

He said that this would effect the price of the premiums.

Not a problem as long as i was covered.

 

I was asked to sign a fixed 3 yr insurence which would take me up until july 05, the cost of this was £1575.00.

 

The doctors find out the reason for the epilespy is i have a brain tumor (not cancerous) but it is what is causing the epilepsy.

In 05 the epilepsy was now begining to effect my life , i was advised to stop driving, and the frequency was around two per week, but i was still able to work.

 

In july 05 i was contacted by MMS Ltd (this was the company who Regency got my insurence with) and asked if i wished to renew the policy as it was coming to the end of the 3yr fixed term.

I was asked on the phone :

"had my illness got any worse"

"did i want to continue with the policy"

To which i answered yes to both, when i went to explain that my illness had got worse, the telephonist said its ok i do not need any more medical info as you have not made a claim against this policy in the last 3yrs.

 

In sept 05 i was advised by the Hospital to stop working as the seizures were getting more frequent and i was blacking out, the company that i work for have been very good and have kept my job open for me should i wish to return, but due to health & saftey they feel it would be in their best interest also.

 

i try to make a claim against the said PPI to cover my mortgage.

MMS first said that i cannot claim because the inception date was only in july, i said that this was when it was renewed it was NOT a new policy.

 

Then they said that i cannot claim because "it was a pre-exsisting medical condition"

I said that you already knew that and that is why i was paying a higher premium, the premiums had now gone upto £65.00 pm from the renewal.

 

Mortgage company we were now with (gmac) took us to court for repossesion and we was forced to sell..(but thats another story).

 

I got my MP involved and then MMS stated they would pay back the renewal premiums only and if i felt the Policy had been mis-sold to me then i should take this matter up with Regency.

 

Well thats where we are at now?

Regency are saying that at no time did i disclose anything about my illness to their rep?

If this is the case why was i asked .

"had my condition got any worse and did i want to renew the said policy" when it was up for renewal?

 

MMS are offering to pay back their part of the renewal policy but feel if i think the policy was mis-sold then i should take this matter up with Regency?

 

Bankfodder..have i made this a bit clearer or even more confusing, sorry!

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I Think your first step has to be to raise a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to MMS and get copies of all the application forms etc. I would also submit a SAR to Regency to again obtain all copies of application forms etc. You may well find that they may differ from each other ?.. Once you recieve the information go over it all with a fine tooth comb, you may well be surprised what may come to light.

 

Good luck and keep fighting them..

 

Ian


Lloyds TSB -PPI - Full refund . 05/09/06 :D:p (As Seen on TV) :p

Halifax settled in Full.. :D 22/09/06

TSB First Claim SETTLED IN FULL 19/10/06 :D

Second Claim to Lloyds TSB - Settled in Full

Firstplus - early settlement interest charges - Challenged the use of the rule of 78 - SETTLED IN FULL 12/1/07

PPI - GE Money / Purpleloans / Firstplus - Now Settled after 1 year long hard fight.

 

 

 

If my post has helped you, please click the scales! :grin:

 

Anything said is my opinion and how I understand the law, always consult professional legal advice before taking something to court.

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Reidnet

thank for your reply!

Im sorry i havent replied to it earlier but have been caught up with things..

Anyway i will apply for SAR from MMS & Regency, and we will see if they differ or if they show anything at all?

 

One thing i cant understand is....

if MMS feel (as they have done all along) they are in their right NOT to have paid out on the PPI in the first place?

Why have they offered a refund at all?

How would they have known about my ilnness if i had not told the rep in the first place?

 

Once again reidnet thanks for your help and advice

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No Problem, Thats the idea of this site for eachother to offer advice and support.

Good luck in your fight to get back what is yours..

 

Ian


Lloyds TSB -PPI - Full refund . 05/09/06 :D:p (As Seen on TV) :p

Halifax settled in Full.. :D 22/09/06

TSB First Claim SETTLED IN FULL 19/10/06 :D

Second Claim to Lloyds TSB - Settled in Full

Firstplus - early settlement interest charges - Challenged the use of the rule of 78 - SETTLED IN FULL 12/1/07

PPI - GE Money / Purpleloans / Firstplus - Now Settled after 1 year long hard fight.

 

 

 

If my post has helped you, please click the scales! :grin:

 

Anything said is my opinion and how I understand the law, always consult professional legal advice before taking something to court.

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Hi guys, Just a quick question as I am still going through something similar myself. Can't say to much just yet as this is leading to a legal battle, but all will be revealed. I just have a quick question and hope you will help me.

When you received a cheque from MMS Insurance, was the cheque from MMS or Lloyds (Their underwriters) also was it a printed cheque or hand written. This info is vital to my case, so I would be so very very grateful if anyone could let me know.

Many thanks x

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the thread is 12yrs old!!

 

you need to start a new thread

of your own

you wont ever get seen here.

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Hello all,

it's been 12 years since I visited this forum.

I am wondering if I have anywhere to go with this, or should it just be forgotten about.?

 

It's regarding a company called Regency mortgage (brokers)& PPI For the sum £1575

 

I'm not going to go through it all again in this thread, as you can see my previous one on the subject from back in the day here

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.u...td-amp-Regency

 

I am unable to post link's as I'm a new member (well new name as i couldn't remember any details)

 

Since that original post, I have taken Regency mortgage (brokers) to court (ilford county)

The magistrate awarded in our favour and gave them 7 days to refund the premium.

On the 7th day a letter came, not with a cheque, but informing us that the company had now gone into receivership.

 

I ended up losing my house, because of not one, but a number of major factors, and Regency Mortgage were part of that?

 

Is there anything that can be done or has all hope gone on this one?

 

Thanks for reading

Edited by dx100uk
updated with correct details from OP

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I have added your old thread here for ref.

 

please read the PM I've sent you.


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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