Liverpool Airport 'Stopping' Charge

[bornenasty]

Hi all

- as per thread title, either my better half (car owner) or I stopped at LJA whilst dropping someone off.

 

Didn't stop on a road edge, instead turned into a side road/parking area, spun around, and let them out.

 

Reason for this - never been to LJA before and didn't have a clue what was going on parking wise!

 

Looking around I think this is what I'm supposed to add in here

 

1 Date of the infringement 26/4/18

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 1/5/18

3 Date received 8/5/18

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] Doesn't appear to?

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal]

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up No

 

7 Who is the parking company? VCS

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Liverpool John Lennon Airport

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IAS

 

I've added a copy of the letter.

 

Suffice to say it was utterly unclear that there was a contract being entered into, and that dropping someone off, whilst lost in a confusing car park, would somehow result in a harge

 

Also suffice to say no money is being sent their way!

 

What is best course of action?

 

Thanks in advance for any help

Edited June 24, 2018 by dx100uk
Fine to charge, swearing

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

The short answer is that nobody will suggest that you pay this. Someone will give you the long answer later. Have a read around this forum and you'll see lots of threads about JLA and the no stopping problem.

 

Would it be possible to resave and upload your docs as pdf files please? It makes it easier for us to zoom.

 

Best, HB

[bornenasty]

Hey HB - thanks for the quick reply!

 

Yes have read around a bit, but got lost among the different stages/problems people are having. Also the 'recentness' of cases - can't find anyone recently saying its all gone away!

 

I've saved as PDF, attached here. Will edit original post too if I can

LJM.pdf

[ericsbrother]

there are several things to consider here,

 

firstly it is covered by its own byelaws and so not " relevant land" under the POFA and that menas VCS are stuffed

 

. Secondly no stopping isnt a genuine offer of a contract to park, it is prohibitive so no contract. You cant agree to break the law as a form of creating a contract!

 

They know this and lose court claims where these points are used but until someone prosecutes them for fraud they will continue to rip people off where they can.

 

Basically the claim has no legal legs but expect them to behave in a way that is designed to harass and coerce you into paying.

 

I hope you are strong enough to resist all of this otherwise just pay up and save yourself the bother.

 

We recommend that you do fight it as because the more people take this on the less the return for their effort and eventually they might actually start considering the job they were employed to do.

 

So advice- do nothing at present.

 

In your case they are claiming keeper liability under the POFA but as already said, that doesnt apply so another lie

Edited May 9, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[bornenasty]

Thanks ericsbrother.

 

So literally just hold my breath for now?

 

Not even send a "I'm not gong to pay this for x,y,z reasons"?

 

As for resisting harassment I've kept Parking Eye at bay over a typo on a ticket I bought, so I'm fairly stoic, lol!

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

I agree wholeheartedly with ericsbrother here. The most that could be claimed is trespass as the signs are prohibitive in nature. It's just as easy to hop over a fence and cross private land without permission and get charged for trespass.

 

VCS are members of the IPC who rarely support the driver or keeper in any appeal to them so it is just not worth spending time appealing.

 

What has happened in the past is that VCS, via their pet lawyers (Gladstones, BW Legal) issue court papers in a last chance of them getting a pay day.

 

This does scare some people into paying, thinking that they will lose at court. In reality and has been mentioned in various cases I have come across, VCS will still chase right up to a day or so before court then abandon it, probably because they know that they won't win at court.

 

It's purely a numbers game to VCS. Resist and with help from the experts, you should do well.

Edited June 24, 2018 by dx100uk
Spacing

[bornenasty]

Fab, thanks for that silverfox

 

So tactic is to just arbitrarily ignore everything for now then, easy enough

[honeybee13]

Fab, thanks for that silverfox

 

So tactic is to just arbitrarily ignore everything for now then, easy enough

 

Don't ignore a claim form from a court though. If you're not sure, come back and ask us.

 

HB

[bornenasty]

So keep eye out for court ones, ignore "we're going to send this to court"/"we're sending this to bailiffs" style ones, ta!

[ericsbrother]

They are supposed to use the pre action protocols of civil procedure and send you a letter before action stating what they are claiming and why.

 

As they also add amounts to the claim that arent allowable they get this wrong as well BUT you should respond to this last letter (before court action) firmly stating that there is no contract for the reasons cited and therefore they have no basis for a claim and thus no cause for action.

 

This essentially point out that they are being unreasonable by continuing to a court claim and will get you a full costs recovery order if you ask for one. as this can include research time you can stick it to them quite hard.

 

Howevr, what you should hope to achieve at that point is to show that you are no mug and they will then hopefully just go quiet and slink off back under their stone.

Winning at court is only second best to not having to go there.

Edited May 9, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[bornenasty]

Thanks ericsbrother, will wait on LBA then, and update in here.

 

As for billing research time, my advertised hourly rate is £50, presume I would bill at that for 'x hours of research'?

[ericsbrother]

unfortunately it is set at £19.50ph and you get 5 hours allowed for this type of action.

 

Self employed people get punished by the system as it is assumed that you can manage your time to avoid losing money when the reality is you are more likely to suffer a financial loss.

 

Still having to pay £190 plus travel hurts them more than just paying their rentamouth £50 for turning up so all in all a loss by the parking co sets them back a fair bit, what with sols costs and hiring a DCA to send out letters

[bornenasty]

Really? That's mad! Then again one of my client bills north of £550/hr... so I can see a point, lol!

[ericsbrother]

I did consultancy in the oil and gas industry occasionally as a microscopist and used to charge £1000/hr. i didnt see any of it though, my employers always found other ways of spending it such as new carpets in lifts.

[bornenasty]

Sounds about right!!

[bornenasty]

Next communication has come through, sent to debt collector. Still just ignore?

 

Have got to laugh at the little snippet that back in 2015 someone somewhere managed to enforce a parking charge.... you go guys!

parking 2.pdf

[dx100uk]

A DCA is not a BAILIFF

[bornenasty]

Cool will continue to ignore then, thanks

[ericsbrother]

the parking worlds favourite mouthpiece.

 

Yes, ignore them, you will get a couple more yet though, the last one will beg you to pay up before they recommend that their paymasters get nasty.

If you dont then they wont earn a dishonest crust

Edited June 25, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[bornenasty]

Hey Eric - sorry bud, thought I replied to this??

 

Yes have had first nastyish one through the other week, now they've stepped up to a "Notice of intention to commence legal proceedings" - though still offering me 'half price', lol!

 

Still ignore? Still doesn't appear to be a proper LBA, just a threat of one?

 

]

Notice of intent.pdf

[silverfox1961]

Definitely ignore that one. Zenith (DR+ in disguise) cannot take any action and those big bold words are intended to worry you. Either Gladstones or BG Legal are the ones that usually take on these cases so don't ignore them when they (if) they arrive

[brassnecked]

VCS would try to invoice a pushbike or one of those 15 mph pedal assisted scooters if they could trace the rider if they stopped to read the signs. they are that greedy and stupid.

[bornenasty]

Definitely ignore that one. Zenith (DR+ in disguise) cannot take any action and those big bold words are intended to worry you. Either Gladstones or BG Legal are the ones that usually take on these cases so don't ignore them when they (if) they arrive

 

Great, thanks, thought as much!

 

VCS would try to invoice a pushbike or one of those 15 mph pedal assisted scooters if they could trace the rider if they stopped to read the signs. they are that greedy and stupid.

 

lmao!!!

 

Cheers guys!