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Fare evasion - used my brothers under 16 oyster card **RESOLVED - Just Got a Warning**


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Let me start by saying I messed up and i know that i'm completely dishonest and in the wrong…is there any getting out of this??

 

i went into the station the other day using my brothers under 16 oyster card as i was really struggling financially and wasn’t getting paid till the following day.

I am a student and had to travel that day as I had an exam and I had missed previous days of college because I didn’t have the money to top up my own 18+ student oyster card.

 

After i tapped in, i was walking towards the platform until i was stopped by an inspector.

He suspected that i had a child oyster which he must of heard when i tapped in as it makes a different sound and i clearly didn't notice him standing there.

 

I panicked and showed him my own oyster student oyster card which obviously wasn't valid claiming that was the one I used.

I denied having the child oyster card as I panicked and thought my brother would also get into trouble.

 

He then called the community police officers who were at the other entrance to the station to search me which they did and nothing was found.

The inspector then took my details, cautioned me and asked me a few questions.

 

I am over 18 and this is my first offence and i have no previous convictions as i have always been on the good side of the law until this silly mistake.

This was the first time using my brothers oyster card.

 

I know that I should have been truthful and regret it but I just panicked and didn’t want my brother to also get into trouble for my mistake.

I did not realise that you could be prosecuted and given a criminal record for this which would just be disastrous for my future career hopes as I am a student with hopes of getting into dental school.

 

know that I don’t deserve any help on here but I was just in a desperate situation financially which is why I did this to begin with.

I have received a letter asking for my version of events.

What shall I do from here and is there any chance to avoid court and conviction??

Edited by dx100uk
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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

OK, as you know you haven't been very clever but this could turn out not too badly if you're prepared to pay TfL's losses and their reasonable admin costs.

 

You need to wait for their letter asking for your version of events, which could take 6-8 weeks. Once you get it, you come back here and tell us what you're planning to write, which needs to be a sincerely contrite letter. We'll help you to refine it.

 

In the meantime, do a search of this forum for similar threads with people using someone else's Oyster card, especially the ones where they've settled before court.

 

Best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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The OP has received the letter already, HB.

 

OP does it give any indication of what they might prosecute you for?

Can you post it up (with personal details redacted), or tell us more about what it says?

 

If it goes to court, were you to be found guilty and fined, the court looks at your financial circumstances.

Obviously, an administrative settlement as an alternative to court is much better for you than a criminal record, but I need to point out that if they ask for a sum for administrative settlement you likely won’t get “time to pay” as you would with a court fine.

 

I’m not saying this to worry you but so you can start to look for where you’d find this money from, rather than you being offered an administrative settlement, not being able to pay it in time and then them deciding to take it to court anyway!

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can we see the letter please

read upload

 

PDF only please!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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So this is what the letter says

 

On (date) you were reported to tfl for failing to produce a valid ticket, pass or photocards for your journey.

The facts of this incident are being considered and i must advise you that legal proceedings may he taken against you in accordance with tfl prosection policy

 

In order for tfl to deal with your case correctly, please return the information requested on the reverse of this letter by email or post within 10 days

 

You do not have to reply to this letter but it may harm your defence if you do not mention something now which you may later rely on in court...ect

 

Failure to respond to this letter may result in matters being progressed without further notification

 

Then on the back it says

1. If you deny committing an offence, please explain why. Please note Tfl fare evasion offences are ones of strict liability. This means that a mistake or accident is not a defence. The fact you were on a Service without a valid ticket or pass is normally sufficient for a conviction

 

2. If you accept committing an offence, please provide any exceptional reasons, including evidence as to why TFL should not proceed with prosecution

 

I would prefer anything to a criminal conviction so i would just have to somehow get the money together by starting now i suppose...thats if i have a chance of a out of court settlement

 

I do not know where to start regarding a letter of apology as its quite a complicated case...can you guys help me with that??

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It's best if you make a start in your own words about what happened on the day and why, much like you have here.

 

Then you need to add the bit about apologising, offering to pay etc and after that, you explain why a criminal record would have an adverse effect on your future career.

 

Have a go and we'll guide you. :)

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Do u think i have any chance?

 

Also is it worth calling before writing and shall i write a seperate letter to them rather than writing on the one they have sent me asking for my version of events??

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Then on the back it says

1. If you deny committing an offence, please explain why. Please note Tfl fare evasion offences are ones of strict liability. This means that a mistake or accident is not a defence. The fact you were on a Service without a valid ticket or pass is normally sufficient for a conviction

 

True for a Bylaw prosecution, which are “strict liability”, and no intent is required (though there are a few statutory defences (though you haven’t mentioned anything that would make them apply!)

Not strictly true for a RORA 1889 prosecution, as there they have to show intent : however that wouldn’t be difficult to show friom the events you’ve described ....

 

I do not know where to start regarding a letter of apology as its quite a complicated case...can you guys help me with that??

 

Have a look at the many, many similar cases on CAG.

What makes you think yours is any more complicated?

You didn’t have a valid ticket, and got caught ....

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Well the fact that i denied having a child oyster and the community police were called to search me and nothing was found...

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So what? (About the child Oyster)

 

Did you produce a ticket showing you had paid your fare?

If not: don’t provide details they aren’t asking for, but don’t get ‘caught in a lie’.

 

You are going to have to accept you’ve done wrong, and appear remorseful and unlikely to re-offend.

You don’t have to give unnecessary details, but if they catch you fibbing they are more likely to go down the prosecution route: don’t give them reasons not to offer an administrative settlement!

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biochem, I would say you need to write before you start trying to negotiate on the phone. If people disagree with me, I'm sure they'll say.

 

Treat it like a short exam essay and use normal English, no textspeak. :) From what I've seen on our forum you do have a chance of negotiating but you have to put in the effort.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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So are you saying that i should not mention using the child oyster and just be more vague about it??..

 

Shall i write a seperate letter to them or on the one the one they have already sent me asking for my version of events?

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Return the form, add a covering letter.

Don’t phone (yet!), but can always phone later to say “I just wanted to be sure you’d received my reply”.

 

The key things are:

Make it your own words. If you just use a “template” or someone writes it for you : it will show. Similar threads will give you guidance on the sort of things to include (or not!), but straightforward copying runs the risk of them saying to themselves “Oh look, its standard letter A, with tweaks 1, 6, and 8”. .......

By all means get help here by showing a draft and seeking feedback, but it’ll still be your own words.

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The inspector suspected that I had a child oyster which was not found but he did include it in his notes which I read.

 

Shall I explain everything as I have done in my original post on this forum or shall I just apologise for not having a valid ticket, I'm confused...

 

I didn't sign his notes either if that makes any difference...

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It doesn’t matter if you signed the notes or not, and (being brutally honest), if you are looking at minutiae like “well, I didn’t sign the notes!” rather than just accepting you’ve done wrong, it strikes me that you are sorry.

Sadly, though, it appears to me that is “sorry I got caught, not “Sorry I did wrong”.

 

Decide what sort of response you want to give as a prelude to writing the first draft YOURSELF, because if you are still deciding if you want to go down the “I could be off the hook here if I stress fact ” route : you can’t write YOUR letter regarding YOUR offending until you’ve made up YOUR mind why you are sorry, and which of those you are sorry about ....

 

You also know what is in his notes, and you can expect the prosecutions team to look at his notes when considering your reply ....

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I didn't sign his notes either if that makes any difference...

 

Don't go there, biochem. The worst thing you can do is to try and pick holes in their case when you admit you did this.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Actually, HB, depending on the OP’s next moves I may not be contributing much more on this thread.

It’s been suggested a number of times they do a first draft ....

It also appears (to both of us, at least!) they might still be looking for a ‘magic bullet’

 

So, your input is always helpful (and often less blunt than mine), and I may be giving up (if it ends up looking like a case of “can’t help those who won’t help themselves”)

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The reason i was confused was because you said earlier dont mention anything they dont need to know so i wasnt sure what to include and what not to include in my letter of apology...i will get to work on a draft letter and post it up on here so you can hopefully help me with it.

 

@Bazza

 

Sorry if ive come across this way, this whole situation has just been really stressful for me and its all happened at the wrong time as i have exams to revise for also but its my mistake and ive brought in on myself. I have a bad habit of over thinking and focusing on every little detail which is why i keep asking questions...i will write up a draft letter and i hope you will still be willing to help

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Of course

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thankyou

 

This is my first draft letter

 

Dear sir/madam

 

I wish to offer my sincere and unreserved apology for travelling without a valid train ticket on...I apologise profusely for my actions and feel shameful for my moment of very poor judgement. As a hopeful young student with dreams of getting into dental school, a criminal record would be devastating and would end any hopes of this becoming a reality.

 

I had been struggling financially this past month which is what led me to make this grave mistake which i wholeheartedly regret and wish i could take back if i had the chance. This is my first offence and i have never previously been on the wrong side of the law.

 

I was due to be paid from my part time job the following day after this incident occured. I had no choice but to travel that day as i had an exam to sit which is why i used my brother oyster card. I had previously missed several days of college simply because i did not have enough money to cover the fare. I panicked when i was confronted by the ticket inspector which is why i was not honest at the time which i deeply regret and i know that this only made matters worse. I was fearful that my brother would also get into trouble for what was my mistake. I made a very bad choice which has haunted me since. Desperation can sometimes lead you to make decisions which are completely out of character and ultimately wrong. I usually always purchase a valid ticket when travelling and i have never done anything like this before. I am so so sorry for my actions and for the inconvenience caused to all those involved. I was in a difficult situation financially but i did wrong which i hold my hands up to and wholeheartedly regret. I have certainly learnt from this experience and would never ever think of doing anything like this again.

 

I wish to offer any monetary sums equivalent to any related fines and admistrative fees you have incurred to avoid going to court as a potential criminal record would destroy my future career and employment hopes.

 

Once again i sincerely apologise for my actions for which i am deeply ashamed.

 

Yours sincerely....

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1st 2 paragraph s move to the end

 

Start with your interpretation of what happened

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Dear sir/madam

 

I wish to offer my sincere and unreserved apology for travelling without a valid train ticket on..i have had financial difficulties of late due to unexpected payments that were due. I was due to be paid from my part time job the following day after this incident occured but i had to travel that day as i had an exam to sit which is why i made the the terrible mistake to use my brothers under 16 oyster card. I had previously missed many days of college simply because i did not have enough money to cover the fare. I panicked when i was confronted by the ticket inspector which is why i was not honest at the time which i deeply regret and i know that this only made matters worse. I was fearful that my brother would get into trouble for what was my mistake. I have been using my own oyster card since being paid and i will never use his or anyones oyster card other than my own again.

 

I made a very bad choice which has haunted me since. Desperation can sometimes lead you to make decisions which are completely out of character and ultimately wrong. I usually always purchase a valid ticket when travelling and i have never done anything like this before. I am so so sorry for my actions and for the inconvenience caused to all those involved. I was in a difficult situation financially but i did wrong which i hold my hands up to and wholeheartedly regret. I have certainly learnt from this experience and would never ever think of doing anything like this again.

 

I apologise profusely for my actions and feel shameful for my moment of very poor judgement. As a hopeful young student with dreams of getting into dental school, a criminal record would be devastating and would end any hopes of this becoming a reality. This is my first offence and i have never previously been on the wrong side of the law.

 

I wish to offer any monetary sums equivalent to any related fines and admistrative fees you have incurred to avoid going to court as a potential criminal record would destroy my future career and employment hopes.

 

Once again i sincerely apologise for my actions for which i am deeply ashamed and i look forward to hearing from you

 

Yours sincerely....

 

Is this any better?

 

Other people ive spoken to seem to say i am incriminating myself by saying that i was infact using a child oyster but the inspector knew i was using one eventhough it wasn’t found and i just want to be honest ablut what happened.

 

What do you think and is there anything you would include or not include?

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