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UKPC/SCS Claimform - Multiple Windscreen PCNs Longton Exchange Stoke-On-Trent ST3 2JA

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  1. The claim is denied
  2. the claimant gives no details of any alleged agreement and in any event it is not evident that the claimant has sufficient interest in the land to bring a claim. The claimant is put to proof on this issue.
  3. The defendant does not admit that they were parked as alleged by the claimant and the claimant has provided no evidence that this occurred.
  4. It is a fact that the claimant company has been investigated on at least three previous occasions for its involvement in the falsification of evidence in relation to penalty charge notices and was even banned from access to the DVLA driver database in 2016.
  5. A further investigation by the DVLA this year, 2018, and which is continuing has resulted in a further ban by the DVLA from access to their driver database by the claimants.
  6. This DVLA ban is ongoing.
  7. Paragraph 3 is denied. The defendant has not received the notices alleged by the claimant save for one which referred to a "contravention" allegedly committed on the XXXdatexxx. In respect of this "contravention" the claimants Penalty Charge Notice identified a vehicle of a different make and model to that owned by the claimant.
  8. The claimant alleges that the defendant committed certain "contraventions" and has suffered loss and damage as a result. It is denied that the defendant committed "contraventions" and in any event, if the court finds that contraventions were committed, then it is denied that the claimant has suffered any loss or damage as alleged or that the sum sought by the claimant reflects those actual losses or the value of that actual damage.
  9. The defendants position is that the sums claimed in respect of the alleged contraventions amount to penalties and would in any event be unenforceable unless they reflected the actual losses and or damage caused by the defendant to the claimant.

 

Have a look at this and amend or correct as needed.

Please post your final version here.

I would like to see what others have to say


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I have added the last point as the signage was poor and only visible half way down the road. The spot I was parked in also had no yellow lines, most of the entry road does if that makes a difference?

 

 

  1. The claim is denied
  2. The claimant gives no details of any alleged agreement and in any event it is not evident that the claimant has sufficient interest in the land to bring a claim. The claimant is put to proof on this issue.
  3. The defendant does not admit that they were parked as alleged by the claimant and the claimant has provided no evidence that this occurred.
  4. It is a fact that the claimant company has been investigated on at least three previous occasions for its involvement in the falsification of evidence in relation to penalty charge notices and was even banned from access to the DVLA driver database in 2016.
  5. A further investigation by the DVLA this year, 2018, and which is continuing has resulted in a further ban by the DVLA from access to their driver database by the claimants.
  6. This DVLA ban is ongoing.
  7. Paragraph 3 is denied. The defendant has not received the notices alleged by the claimant save for one, which referred to a "contravention" allegedly committed on the 30/05/2015. In respect of this "contravention" the claimants Penalty Charge Notice identified a vehicle of a different make and model to that owned by the claimant.
  8. The claimant alleges that the defendant committed certain "contraventions" and has suffered loss and damage as a result. It is denied that the defendant committed "contraventions" and in any event, if the court finds that contraventions were committed, then it is denied that the claimant has suffered any loss or damage as alleged or that the sum sought by the claimant reflects those actual losses or the value of that actual damage.
  9. The defendants position is that the sums claimed in respect of the alleged contraventions amount to penalties and would in any event be unenforceable unless they reflected the actual losses and or damage caused by the defendant to the claimant..
  10. If there was a contract, it is denied that the penalty charge is incorporated into the contract. As per Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking [1971] 2 QB 163, the relevant term must be made known before a contract was formed. Here, the charge was not incorporated into the contract because as the signage was poor and not visible from where the defendant parked or from the point of entry.

Should I leave that last point in?

 

Thank you

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I don't think you need to put para .10 in. You should use the pleadings simply to present the facts. You won't need to remind the judges as to the law here and I think it is unhelpful.

 

By the way please notice that in my suggested defence, I have used "Penalty Charge Notice" for PCN instead of "Parking Charge Notice". They would prefer to say parking charge – but I am trying to emphasise all the way through here that we are in fact talking about a penalty.

 

If it comes to court, they will probably try to make that clear to the judge and it will be for you to say that calling it a "parking charge" is simply a device to disguise the truth – the truth being that it is a penalty and in fact the use of the word "contraventions" all the way through reveals the nature of the charge and their true intention.

 

I strongly suggest that you leave paragraph 10 out.

 

I was hoping that DX would be around to give us his you – but unusually he doesn't seem to be online today. I would suggest that you get this ready and in an hour, click it off


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I will leave out paragraph 10.

 

I'll keep and eye out for anymore responses and get it ready to send for 3pm.

 

Thank you again Bankfodder, it's very much appreciated.

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pers i'd keep it as post 19

introduce the rest at WS time.

 

less is more


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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pers i'd keep it as post 19

introduce the rest at WS time.

 

less is more

in that case I would at least deny that you ever received the other notices.


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Bankfodder, just finishing typing now. How would you word it please?

 

Defence submitted as per #19

 

Thank you all for your help.

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good now they have 28 days to do 'something'

 

get those pix done

 

were these supposedly windscreen tickets as they dont mention ANPR at all


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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points 4, 5 and 6 are totally irrelevant to your defence,

they are outside the time and remit of the court,

the court will address matters of contract law surrounding the claim and not take into consideration how they got their information.

 

For all you know they may claim to have followed you home and it still wouldnt inpact on their claim or your defence.

Best drop these points or your defence may well be looked over with a fine comb and UKPC get the benefit of the doubt rather than you

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were these supposedly windscreen tickets as they dont mention ANPR at all

 

 

They were windscreen yes

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then you send off a CPR 31.14 request for documents asking to see the contract between UKPC and the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contract with the public and to make civil claims in their own name.

 

also you ask for a reference for the planning permission they are obliged to have under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007.

They wont have it so something you need to check with the council.

 

Also as far as the land goes, identify the landowner yourself and then look them up at Companies House to ensure they are not dormant or have mortgages that prevent them from making contracts of the sort needed to allow UKPC to be there and trouser the money.

 

many banks forbid this as they demand to have first dibs on any money coming in.

again, it may be more than one landowner so look to see whether more than one has signed up to allow UKPC to be there.

UKPC are chancers and often have contracst that are expired ior witht he wrong person so you cant take them at their word when it comes to what they produce for court. Commercial confidentiality doesnt come into it, they try and use censorshi under those grounds to hide the fact they dont have a current agreement.

 

all this can go in your proper defence, just the skeleton points outlined earlier will do for now.

 

It's a road in the town centre behind a few shops. Cars are always parked there as the signs aren't visable unless you go quite a way down it. I found this out after I received the penalty notice. I took photos then too.

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points 4, 5 and 6 are totally irrelevant to your defence, they are outside the time and remit of the court, the court will address matters of contract law surrounding the claim and not take into consideration how they got their information. For all you knwo they may claim to have followed you home and it still wouldnt inpact on their claim or your defence. Best drop these points or your defence may well be looked over with a fine comb and UKPC get the benefit of the doubt rather than you

 

I went with post 19 as my defence, your short as sweet one

 

good now they have 28 days to do 'something'

get those pix done

 

I still have these from the original appeal :)

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one multipage pdf then please

read upload


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Will. Upload them this evening as they're on my laptop at home

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are we talikng about the road behind Thomas Cook, William Hill and a couple of charity shops or the big car park next to that?

 

the road has signs from a company called spring parking that say no parking at any time.

 

that is not an offer of terms, it is a prohibition and so not a contract or offer of a contract.

 

any sum claimed is therefore an unlawful penalty and as such the UKPC will have obtained your keeper details unlawfully and you can sue them for that.

 

once we have the full details you might want to consider letting them know this and that their claim is unreasonable conduct and will result in a full costs recover order being sought as well as a summary dismissal of their claim.

 

we will see about that once we know exactly where your car was parked and what the signs say.

 

take a look on Google streetview and capture the images of these other Co's signs as you can use them against UKPC anyway.

Edited by dx100uk
merge/spacing

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points 4, 5 and 6 are totally irrelevant to your defence, they are outside the time and remit of the court, the court will address matters of contract law surrounding the claim and not take into consideration how they got their information. For all you knwo they may claim to have followed you home and it still wouldnt inpact on their claim or your defence. Best drop these points or your defence may well be looked over with a fine comb and UKPC get the benefit of the doubt rather than you

 

of course, if this was drafted by a legal representative then you wouldn't include this kind of stuff. However, a litigant in person has a lot of licence and I would always include this kind of stuff regardless of whether it is relevant – in order to to send a shot across the bow is of the claimant – but also to bring it to the attention of the judge as early and as officially as possible. This kind of thing destabilises the claimant and their arguments.

Once again, it would be frowned upon if it was done by professional. As a litigant in person you have a lot of leeway – and you should use it all.


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are we talikng about the road behind Thomas Cook, William Hill and a couple of charity shops or the big car park next to that?

 

the road has signs from a company called spring parking that say no parking at any time.

 

that is not an offer of terms, it is a prohibition and so not a contract or offer of a contract.

 

any sum claimed is therefore an unlawful penalty and as such the UKPC will have obtained your keeper details unlawfully and you can sue them for that.

 

once we have the full details you might want to consider letting them know this and that their claim is unreasonable conduct and will result in a full costs recover order being sought as well as a summary dismissal of their claim.

 

we will see about that once we know exactly where your car was parked and what the signs say.

 

take a look on Google streetview and capture the images of these other Co's signs as you can use them against UKPC anyway.

 

It's Smithy Lane, which is very close to there, it's the other side of the carpark. I have attached the pictures taken the day after the penalty notice. I have also included the penalty notice with the incorrect details.

 

I was parked where there are no yellow lines in picture 3

ticketphotos.pdf

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your personal details are visible,

you should take down the picture of the ticket and put it back up with your persoanl stuff removed.

 

Also the pictures of the land dont help much at all,

we dont know exactly where your vehicle was parked,

we can see no signs whatsoever and as the ticket is for parking in a permit only area

 

we will need to see how that is defined by road makings etc.

So, pictures of the signage in both detail and also in relation to where they are in the car aprk and also whether they can be seen from the entrance to the land from the public highway.

 

Are there any signs that have different wording (as they mention permit parking this suggests some delineation)

Again I must ask for a precise location and for this tell us what shops it is behind as Smithy lane doesnt appear on a map of the area.

 

reason for this is how are you going to find out who owns the land if you cant locate it?

UKPC may well have the same problem, we hope so

Edited by dx100uk
spacing

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The car doesn't exist anymore so I wasn't worried about the reg being on show. Edited.

 

The signs around that area have changed , it's a new company 'enforcing' now.

 

I've marked on picture 3 where I was parked.

 

I submitted my DQ on 05/06/18 but haven't heard anything since. Is this normal?

ticketphotos(1).pdf

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Well well.

 

I've just been looking at this with a view to where your vehicle was parked. Where you have marked on the pictures forms part of a road maintained at public expense (unclassified road) according to Staffordshire Highways Dept. Go to this page... https://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/transport/staffshighways/Highway-Data/Highway-Records/Road-and-Maintenance-Status/Search.aspx

 

Top right is a search box. Change that to "postcode search" and away you go.

 

 

Public land. UKPC have about as much right as the milkman to try and charge you for parking there.

 

You might want to get on to the council and get a proper print out/plan of that. It will absolutely destroy their claim :lol:

Smithy Lane Stoke-On-Trent.pdf


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It gets better.

there were no signs because it wasnt their road. I like that.

 

 

Now a formal complaint to the DVLA about UKPC obtaining your keeper details when parked on a public highway in an attempt to obtain money that can never be owed.

 

 

Let the council know that UKPC are up to no good as well, they will probably do nothing but they might just send them a snotty letter. Ask for a copy of any correspondence the council sends and let them know why this has come about

 

 

Let the local papers know about this once you have the confirmation of the road being a public highway.

 

 

When that is done ( and ideally in the local paper) you casn invite SCS to get their client to drop the matter or risk a claim for breach of the DPA (as was) they will deny their client has done anything wrong but they know the truth but that doesnt earn them any money.

 

 

Also show us the new sigange and indicate where it is.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras

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