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VCS/? Claimform - PCN No Stopping - LJLA.


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Claimaint: Vehicle Control Services

Solicitors: None identified

 

Date of Issue: 19 Apr 2018

 

Particulars of Claim:

 

1.The Claim against the Defendant is for breach of contract in respect of breaching the Terms and Conidtions set on private land.

The Defendant was issued with a charge notice and has failed to settle their outstanding liabilities.

 

2.At all material time the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver of the vehicle identified in the Particulars of Claim.

It is alleged the Defendant breached the Terms and Conditions of entering private land as detailed in the Particulars of Claim (to follow).

 

3.The Claimant seeks the recovery of the CN and interest under Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% at the same rate up the date of Judgement or earlier payment.

I will provide the defendant with seperate detailed particulars within 14 days after service of the claim form.

 

Claim is for £160 + £25 court fee = £185

 

----------------------

 

Hi,

 

have received court papers wrt the above

 

Basic summary of events:

 

-NTK (not me) received 20/4/2017.

Issued 13/4/17 but for contravention date 2/4/17.

 

 

Due to easter holiday this meant >14 days so POFA does not apply

 

-I appealed on the keepers behalf.

VCS say I selected the driver option.

Have no recollection of this and they have been unable to provide evidence of this being selected.

In my appeal wording I did not say I was the driver.

 

-VCS pursuing me on assumption I am driver.

Initially said they had CCTV, now saying pursuing based on my admission in the appeal.

Don't actually think I've personally received a CN from them contrary to their PoC.

 

-I don't actually think they have ever issued me with a charge notice.

 

Happy to take this to court and defend myself

 

Submitted my AoS 23/4/18 and also selected contest jurisdiction due to the byelaw issues at LJLA,

however have to pay a large fee ~£200 to pursue that.

 

 

Is it worth pursuing the contest of jurisdiction?

I think I can make a robust defence in any case based on other threads I've read on here and Pepipoo.

 

 

Can I claim the fee back if successfully contest jurisdiction?

 

Advice re next step would be appreciated

 

thanks in advance

Edited by dx100uk
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Thread title amended .....you SHOULD be doing this:

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.

.

register as an individual

note the long gateway number given

then log in

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

.

type your name ONLY

 

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

 

.............

 

forget the jurisdiction issue

you are a LiP [litigant in person]

you are allowed to make silly mistakes.

 

can you confirm you have done the above [CPR}

 

dx

Edited by Andyorch
Thread title amended

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

This reads like one of the roboclaims we see every day. There are lots of threads here about John Lennon airport if you search the forum.

 

What was the 'offence', to do with parking or stopping where VCS says you shouldn't please?

ETA: Apologies, I've just read your thread title. There are other threads about this.

 

HB

Edited by honeybee13
Addition.

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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As it is easter the POFA doent apply? Where on earth does that come from.

 

As fotr selecting driver option for appeal again that is for them to prove but actually is irrelevant as the so called offence doesnt actually form a contraxct to breach. It says no stopping so if you stiop to read the signas saying that you have breached the terms. the only way of creating this contarct is to agree to break it and that you cant do. Therefore their signage is prohibitive and not a genuine offer of parking and the warning that you will be billed £100 for doing so is a deterrent rather than an offer of terms for parking so they are double damnedf.

 

They know this as they keep losing claims for this here but as they dont sue the same person time and again they keep trinmg it on because the powers that be cant be bothered to prosecute them.

 

So, get yoursef a moneyclaim online account set up, say you are defending in full and then you ahve another fortnight to put in a skeleton defence that will basically say no contract offered as signage is prohibitve in nature so no money can be due.

the detail will be gone into later, when you ahve a court date set. I would wager that they dont actually continue with this when they see that they are not getting their money.

 

Vcs no longer use solicitors as even the likes of Gladstones know that it is a lost cause and they are feeling guilty for taking Simons money and giving him nothing in return ( not really, he was fed up of paying them for nothing but failed to consider the point that he isnt owed anything)

Edited by honeybee13
Paras
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Here's a wee document that will also help your defence. The full byelaws for LJLA :wink:

 

Section 5 is the bit that you're looking for :thumb:

 

 

It is important to note that in Section 12, a PENALTY of not exceeding £100.00 is mentioned. But this relates to a fine from a court as byelaw offences can only be prosecuted via the Magistrates court system. S12 certainly does not relate to some dodgy invoice from some cowboy parking outfit.

Byelaws for Liverpool John Lennon Airport.pdf

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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Thanks guys.

 

I submitted my AoS on 23/4/18 via MCOL and asked for 28 days, I did select Contest Jurisdiction as I thought that may be a viable options but seems there is no need and didn't realised there was a big fee.

 

Doesn't seem like I will be penalised in any for not filing anything to Contest Jurisdiction, just says I accept jurisdiction if nothing filed in 14 days.

 

@ericsbrother - the long easter weekend with two bank holidays meant that the date VCS says they posted the NTK was >14 days from the date of the supposed infringement.

 

@dx100uk I can't see solicitor mentioned anywhere so should I direct a CPR 31.14 to VCS themselves?

 

So I will work on a defence based on the points you have mentioned and then post a draft back on here.

 

Just to confirm - I have 28+5 from the date of AoS, regardless of the fact I ticked contest jurisdiction (which needed to be done within 14 days)?

 

thanks for your help

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as already said VCS arent using solicitors.

 

you need to get your defence in by the 21st may, it only need to be bullet points as outlined but add the point that no keeper liability has been created under the POFA so you require "strict proof" of who was driving at the time (unless you have indicated it was you and then most of the POFA doesnt count) This is because they havent identified what capacity they are suing you. if they cant prove you were the driver then theylose and if they say it is because you are the keeper then they lose so this point needs to be made at the outset.

 

Now if you didnt receive the correct paperwork then that means they have not shown a cause of action as the POFA is again your friend, they have to send out th right stuff with the correct wording or it isnt a NTK and they cant claim a bean.

 

We will need to see what you have before we recommend going down this road as proff of receipt is not needed but not getting the letter to you in time certainly goes yur way despite your confustuion regarding what a charge notice is

Edited by honeybee13
Paras
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Here is a draft 31.14 request:

 

Added in a section about the advertising consent as I don't believe they had consent from Liv Council at the date in questions.

 

Also added in a request for the "Charge Notice" referred to in the PoC as they have never actually sent me on. Just some letters then CC papers. Let me know if thats pointless.

 

Also should I request to know if they are pursuing me as driver or keeper as the PoC are very vague?

 

------------------------------------------------------

My address

 

Vehicle Control Services

 

6/5/18

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Re: Vehicle Control Services vs xxxxxxxx Case No:

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

template removed - dx

 

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

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They will ignore and TBH at this stage it is not worth worrying about becasue they do have the permissions BUT they dont have the law on their side as it is covered by its own byelaws and they trump anything VCS have got going with anyone else.

 

My advice? dont bother with this, just concentrate on getting your defence sorted out. No stopping isnt a contract for parking, it is a prohibitive sign and how are you supposed to read it if you dant stop? If i sent you a bill for readinga notice saying do not read this sign or you will be charges £100 would you pay up just because I sent you a bill?

 

Also they use a van with a man armed with a camera to grap their evidence of the breach. well, they will have failed to mitigate their actions because that bloke is supposed to tell you to move but as there is no laws onentrapment they knwo that they stand a chance fo collecting soemthing from the uninitiated.

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My defence submission date is approaching, will this suffice for bullet point submission?

 

Defence:

 

1. The claim is denied.

2. The site is subject to byelaws governing the control of motor vehicles. Hence the claimant cannot offer a civil contract in this matter.

3. There was no offer of contract as the signage is inadequate to do so.

4. There was no advertising consent for the signage at the time in question.

5. The defendant does not admit they were the driver and/or keeper as alleged by the claimant.

6. There is no keeper liability by the POFA 2012 in this case and hence the claimant must provide strict proof the defendant was the driver.

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that is true in as much as they were ordered to redo their signage.

I cant say what went on before but it isnt relevant to your defence and if a judge thinks you ahve got that wrong then the rest fo what you say will be discounted somewhat.

 

You can expand on point 3 using the lack of PP when you write your full WS as you cant form a contarct with a criminal act! you will need to copy the paper written on planning and signs that is linked to the parking Pranksters blogspot as no judge will know the ins and ouits of it and VCS will tell lies

 

 

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Updated, advertising consent removed. Just to confirm, bulletpoints are ok for this submission and then I would go into more detail in my WS?

 

Defence:

 

1. The claim is denied.

2. The site is subject to byelaws governing the control of motor vehicles. Hence the claimant cannot offer a civil contract in this matter.

3. There was no offer of contract as the signage the claimant refers to is clearly inadequate to do so.

4. The defendant does not admit they were the driver and/or keeper as alleged by the claimant.

5. The is no keeper liability by the POFA 2012 in this case and hence the claimant must provide strict proof the defendant was the driver.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I submitted my defence and then my Directions Questionnaire.

I requested my hearing in Liverpool.

Do I also need to send a copy of the questionnaire to VCS as I haven't done that yet?

 

I have received a copy of their questionnaire (strangely with a cover letter dated 27th March!)

Presume it's a stock one they forgot to change the date on.

They have requested Sheffield.

 

Also had an email requesting mediation.

Should I accept that or wait for court?

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copy to VCS yes

omit phone/email/sig though!!

 

you did say NO to mediation on the N180 didn't you?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Have had confirmation proceedings will be in Liverpool. Should I be actively doing anything else at the moment other thank thinking about a robust defence?

 

I am moving house soon, is there a formal way of amending my address for the case moving forwards? Or shall I just ring up and get the details changed

 

thanks

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You already filed your def

Got a date yet?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Date now received for Notice of Allocation

Date is set for October at Liverpool

 

As I understand it I am required to pay a £25 fee and provide all documents I'll use in court to the court and also VCS at least 14 days before.

 

I need to change my address as I'm about to move house so would a letter to the court manager and VCS (recorded of course), suffice?

 

thanks for your help as always, I'll start putting defence documents together. Is it just the documents I need or do I need to formulate a written outline of my defence as well?

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not sure where it says you have to pay anything to file your WS?

read it carefully

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

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