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    • stuff and all if there no signed agreement in the return   dx  
    • 1st again why do you keep changing things before you send them   you've added counterclaim in to our std CPR 31:14 you sent? why? this opens you up to additional costs and I hope you didnt tick counterclaim when you did AOS on mcol too?   also I notice you've  played with our std OD defence above too...   pers I would refrain from continuing to change things as they are written in the frain they are for specific reasons.   your defence is due by 4pm Monday [day 33]   here are 2 versions you will ofcourse need to adapt them to lowells para no's and remove the NOA stuff as your docs show Lowell have complied with those. but don't forget to mention other documents provided to date notably statements contain no proof they came from Lloyds but rather Lowells own internal data system    dx   1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant entering into an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') with the [insert original creditor] . .  2. The defendant denies that the account exceeded the agreed overdraft limit due to overdrawing of funds but is as a result of unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account. .  3. I refute the claimants claim is owed or payable. The amount claimed is comprised of amongst others default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, missed or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety. .  4. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon. .  5. The claimant is denied from added section 69 interest within the total claimed that as yet to be decided at the courts discretion. .  6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. .  The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-. .  (a) Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, that this claim is based on.  (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.  (c) Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account with justification.  (d) Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.  (e) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.  (f) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct. .  7. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated [xxxxxxx] namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request. .  By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. .  .............. or  Particulars of Claim  1.The claim is for the sum of 2470.56 in respect of monies owing pursuant to an overdraft facility under account number XXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX.  2.The debt was legally assigned by Santander UK Plc to the claimant and notice has been served.   3.The Defendant has failed to repay overdrawn sums owing under the terms and conditions of the bank account.   The Claimant claims:  The sum of 2470.56 Interest pursuant to s69 of the county courticon Act 1984 at a rate of 8.00 percent from the 7/04/2015 to the date hereof 14 days is the sum of 7.58Daily interest at the rate of .54  Costs Defence  The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant once having had banking facilities with the original creditor Santander Bank. It is denied that I am indebted for any alleged balance claimed.   2. Paragraph 2 is denied.I am not aware or ever receiving any Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon.   3. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Original Creditor has never served notice pursuant to 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974  Any alleged amount claimed could only consist in the main of default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbeyicon National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.  4. As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.  The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.  (a) Provide a copy agreement/overdraft facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception that this claim is based on.  (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.  (c) Provide a breakdown of all excessive charging/fees and show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.   (d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.  (e) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.  5. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated April 2015 namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request.   By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  Regards  Andy    
    • Hi   Just read your thread and looked at the Docs posted in your PDF.   1. from AST to rent a Car Parking space you need to have signed a Car Parking Agreement for a Space and for visitors you should have asked permission for another space in advance with a fee to pay. (i also assume renting a parking space would be at a cost)   2. You have no signed Car Parking Agreement nor visitor space agreement.   Did you not fully read that AST before you signed it and pick up what is stated about parking and ask them about this Car Parking Agreement and if you need one to park in the car park?   You could formally complain to them about what was verbally said to you but unless you have evidence of this it may be hard to prove.   You should also contact them and ask how you go about renting a Car Parking space/costs and about the Car Parking Agreement also what the process is for a visitor car parking space/costs.   You need to be aware that they could class you and your visitor as illegally parking in there car park without consent nor a signed car parking agreement which they could use as a Breach of your Tenancy Agreement so you need to be careful in how you are approaching this and where you are parking.   Just for info on checking Manchester Life website they have numerous buildings/apartments/car parks but you may be in a building where some of the apartments are leasehold and as part of there leasehold they may have purchased a car parking space in that building. (so how do you know you are not parking in a space that someone in the building has legally purchased?)
    • It converts a forthwith to monthly payment which is set to suit your finances...so if £5 a month so be it...rubber stamped by the court....if you try to negotiate direct ...which it sounds thats what your doing.....they can alter it whenever they feel like it and if you dont comply can execute the judgment...but not if you submit an N245 as advised.   But hey what do we know ? 
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Did you raise a dispute to the claim ? If not it would not require allocation and would have automatically been placed in either FT or MT.

 

 

The hearing

 

CPR 55.8

 

(1) At the hearing fixed in accordance with rule 55.5(1) or at any adjournment of that hearing, the court may –

 

(a) decide the claim; or

 

(b) give case management directions.

 

(2) Where the claim is genuinely disputed on grounds which appear to be substantial, case management directions given under paragraph (1)(b) will include the allocation of the claim to a track or directions to enable it to be allocated.

 

(3) Except where –

 

(a) the claim is allocated to the fast track or the multi-track; or

 

(b) the court orders otherwise,

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part55


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Then as per my last post ...the court must have decided to dispense with DQs and placed it automatically in Fast Track...always handy to retain a file from any court dealings then you have all the paperwork to hand for future reference.


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well if it was that straight forward and Elderbridge believed they are correct to charge the costs or add them to my loan etc, then why has it taken them over 4 1/2 months to tell me so.

 

They still have not responded to me about this, they've treated it as a complaint and have not replied!

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MF I have nothing but admiration for you, I’m very glad that you have the buyer , if it were me in your position now, I would go back to court and let the judge know the other party are trying to add costs even tho these can sometimes be added to the final mortgage amount and and find out if indeed it was the judges intention you should be liable, because maybe there is a difference between a secured loan and a mortgage ?

 

The other aspect worth mentioning i think, is that firstplus failed on many counts to adhere to pre court action protocol also failed the the lenders duties, together with many other aspects listed in the shelter advice site leading to: order the lender to pay your legal costs and stop your lender from adding their costs on to what you already owe them.


Whatnot..

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well if it was that straight forward and Elderbridge believed they are correct to charge the costs or add them to my loan etc, then why has it taken them over 4 1/2 months to tell me so.

 

They still have not responded to me about this, they've treated it as a complaint and have not replied!

 

They cant add them...we have already covered that.


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Thanks Andy,

 

Not much I can do right now I suppose, I'm waiting to hear from the court that they've found my file, waiting for my SAR to come back too.

 

When he SAR gets to me, I plan to make them an offer, I have already paid around 94k, I borrowed 100k, they can have 6k at the most. Or I pull out of my sale and go to court.

 

I am aware that they have now settled with 5 other customers now. I know things that I don't think they want me to know, it'll be in their interest to make a deal

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well it will come as no shock that Elderbridge have not complied with the SAR, I have now complained to the ICO. also still no reply to my complaint re the settlement amount.

 

But got this from the court, which still doesn't make any sense!

 

‘This is a mortgage case, so the mortgage itself usually entitles the Claimant to add legal costs to the mortgage account. The court therefore does not order costs and the Defendant will need to check with the Claimant what costs (if any) were added to the mortgage account. The case was allocated to the Fast Track by order of District Judge ****** made on ** June 2013. That decision would have been made based on the type of claim, its value and complexity among other factors.’

 

I replied back to them

 

'The issue I have is that the case was for over 100k which is well above the 25k limit, it was also quite complicated.

It is my understand that costs can only be added to the mortgage account if they are reasonable but the costs were not assessed. Also in a fast track trial I believe the costs are capped, but capped at what? They supplied an estimate of their costs but as explained costs were not discussed in the last hearing, I do not understand how the judge can say in the Trial that costs will be discussed in the next hearing, then not discuss them and this then means that the claimant can just add them?'

 

their next reply was

 

'As mentioned in our previous email, the file was located and referred to the judge along with your correspondence. The previous email contains the judge’s comments after reading your correspondence. Also, please note that court staff are unable to comment on judicial decisions. If you are not satisfied with the decision and want to contest it, please seek legal advise on how to proceed. '

 

It make no sense to me that they would mention in the trail that costs would be rserver till the next hearing then not mention them at all and because of that Elderbridge are allowed to just add them. also surely the court also needs to clarify whether interest can be added as it looks like that's what they've done!

 

any further advise greatly appreciated

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further to this .

 

Got a letter from Elderbridge saying our signatures do not match and asking for ID! received yesterday but dated 11th Oct (conveniently 1 day before the 30 day deadline) are they seriously expecting me to believe that it took 7 day to reach me!!! come on now!

 

I am absolutely livid (as you may be able to tell!)

 

Now the loan was taken out before we were married so I thought they might says that my signature did not match and ask me for ID but they are asking for both of ours - my husbands signature has not changed for over 30 years!! they are also asking me for a certified copy of my marriage cert.

 

I called the ICO and explained the above, told them I believe they backdated the later to be within the time limit - she agreed that it seemed that way, and that they should have immediately replied to my request asking for my ID not waited till the 30 days was up or almost up.

 

she advised me that if I want the data then I will need to send them something to prove my id, but she sad that she thought having a certified copy was not proportionate. and that they will most likely be in trouble for delaying it so long

 

she told me to send reply to them then forward that to the ICO along with a copy of their letter received yesterday and it will all be added to my complaint.

 

I am just so annoyed at the complete lack of respect they have for me or any of their customers, trying to pull the wool over my eyes like that, did they think I was born yesterday??!!

:-x :-x

Edited by dx100uk
Spacing

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And you expected anything else but them do do that?

 

Send ctax bill copy


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Posted (edited)

Thanks Bankfodder!

 

Hello again everyone. 

 

I received my SAR back from Elderbridge and what and absolute load of **** it is!

 

1.  They did not send any transcripts or recordings of any phones calls  - both myself and my husband spoke to them in Aug 2016 (noted in their diary notes) and I called them in Dec 2018 (again noted in their diary notes) it was the same day they sent the reply even though they have mentioned me calling in their notes on that day, so not sure I should let that go or not!   I also spoke to them in July 2016 (again in the notes) and I spoke to them in Dec 2012 (again in the notes) 

 

2.  Going through the diary notes in the beginning notes were sporadic mainly because we were making payment and everything was ok, then later as things changed there were notes almost once a month, then in NOV 2012 and Dec 2012 frequency of notes increase as this is when they began court proceedings.  and throughout 2013 again lots of notes made - mostly their in house stuff about court dealings and so on - so that's fine.

then in NOV 2013 hey made a not re the court date in OCT - saying that they were ordered to treat the loan as having a fixed rate from inception and sent off etc.  BUT from 21 Nov 2013 to 17th June 2014 there are no notes at all!  Now the hearing was on the 10th Jan 2014!

 

17/06/2014 14:43

*****Substantial EVS costs to be added to any SF ******

17/06/2014 14:43

EVS Defended +

At the hearing on 10/01/2014 an SPO for 500 on 26/01/2014 and then CMI + £60 wef 26/02/2014 plus MJ for £103,331.03 suspended on the same terms. It was also held that we could add our costs - Defended costs on this case are £33,879.80.

17/06/2014 00:00

Reviewed

Reviewed

17/06/2014 00:00

***Defended Costs*****:To be added to any SF

***Defended Costs*****:To be added to any SF

21/11/2013 04:13

ADHOC Statement Printed

From 03/10/13 To 13/11/13 Batch 2015 Sequence 28 Printed 13/11/2013 00:00:00

 

Above you can cleary see the gap then suddenly the first notes talk about the court case and costs etc, at the trial in OCT the judge reserved cost till the next hearing (also stated on the documentation from the court)  but then at that hearing in Jan 2014 we did not discuss costs - the 6 month gap I feel is very suspicious. 

 

The final court document  dated 13th Jan 2014 says to pay the claimant £103,331.03 which is the amount outstanding under the mortgage and goes on to says order were not to be enforced as long as we pay etc.  no mention of costs at all - so they seem to just be adding them

 

3.   They sent a field agent to me in Jan 2018, I only knew this as on the 9th Jan 2018 I was working at home and heard the letterbox, thought it was the postman, went to the door to find an envelope shoved through the door with a letter in it saying they had been requested to visit me and that they called today but I was not in! and gave a number for me to call ( I saw the woman walking down the driveway - but she did not ring the bell! and I wasn't about to run after her!)

 

But in the notes they have written this utter lie!

 

30/01/2018 12:44

Field Agent Report Received

The field agent visited the security address on three occasions.

The customer was spoken to through the window. They refused to discuss and refused to answer the door.

The contact number on file is not recognised.

RFA - Not known

Reasons for items not verified:N/A

Details of variances of items outside of expenditure guidelines and reasons N/A

Property is a detached house in good condation valued at £406,000. Equity not known.

I actually cannot believe what I have read here! Can I ask them for some kind of proof of this, because I don't know who they are talking about but it certainly wasn't me!

 

4.  the documents they had sent me a joke, they have sent 77 documents in total, none of these are copies of letter from Elderbridge (which is who I sent the SAR to) all from First Plus and certainly not ALL of them, they have been bulked out by sending me copies of documents that I sent TO THEM for my court defence and there are strange Black boxes over some of the text!? which I don't understand!

 

 

After receiving this info from Elderbridge I decided to send a SAR to Barclays and I got a small package with a couple of letters, some diary notes and screen shot of the account, as well as a short statement of account. This was for our ORIGINAL loan from Feb 2006,  (we topped it up in June 2006) and the first one was closed.  The second one is the one that has been transferred to Elderbridge but Barclays seem to know be denying ALL knowledge of it! and I know that they still hold the beneficial interest of these loans and that Elderbridge regularly contact Barclays for help and advise - I have contact with other account holders who have diary notes from Elderbridge showing contact to Barclays!..

 

This week I also had a reply from the FOS (only from an adjudicator not an ombudsman) and his initial opion is that it's ok for Elderbridge to claim the costs as we defaulted, he seems to be ignoring my argument that the relationship is unfair etc but I will be sending this back and asking for it to be looked at by an ombudsman.

 

But was hoping that someone here could give me any advise re all of this - sorry I know it's a lot!!

Edited by Myfamily

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Can anyone help please?  I really need to get my response back to the FOS today - or they will close my case!

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